Saad Tamman
technocrat who worked at McKinsey
Compiled from 1 recorded interview. Every statement below is drawn from the passage cited beside it.
Saad Tamman is a technocrat who worked at McKinsey and on a national agriculture programme. He studied actuarial sciences in Canada and economics at Vanderbilt in Tennessee. His earlier roles included Tameer Microfinance and farming.
Contents
Early life and background
Tamman went to high school in Lahore. His father is a doctor who did not practise medicine, and his father was also a district chairman. His mother's family placed a high value on education. [1]
Education
Tamman wanted to do something different that he could not do in Pakistan. He studied actuarial sciences in Canada and finished his degree six months ahead of schedule. He graduated in 2009, the year the housing financial crisis set in. [1]
Tamman applied for a Fulbright scholarship. After receiving the scholarship, he said he would stay only five or six months. He studied economics for two years, at Vanderbilt in Tennessee. He also interned at the Planning Commission. [1]
Career
After graduating, Tamman did odd jobs, including work at an Egyptian restaurant. He worked at the company that founded BlackBerry. He also worked on an assembly line in a programme that hired university students, and his shifts on that job were 12 hours long. His dean suggested he think about going back, and he decided that he had to go back. [1]
Tameer Microfinance
Tamman joined Tameer Microfinance, which he describes as the back-end arm of EasyPaisa. He worked there in 2010. Working in microfinance made him think differently about business models. He describes his work then as a hybrid tech, finance and data role. [1]
Mobilink, now Jazz, approached his team, which then started a product for them. HBL then approached his team to do the same. The product launched for HBL as HBL Express is now called HBL Connect. [1]
McKinsey and after
Tamman worked for six or seven months before his McKinsey role began. He was told that McKinsey was opening an office in Pakistan and that he should apply there. He was the second hire at McKinsey's Pakistan office. He worked on an education reforms project of the Punjab government. [1]
Tamman left McKinsey after about a year, at the start of 2016. He did not want to move to Karachi, and his family was where he was. He was asked to come help out and told he could do whatever he wanted in the meantime. He worked with a venture capital fund. [1]
He then received work from the Gates Foundation, on a study concerning National Bank. He worked on a National Bank payments strategy for digital financial inclusion. [1]
Farming
Tamman's mother gave him her land. He began growing vegetables there in 2013 or 2014. He tried growing quinoa and says it grew well, but there was no market for it. He has started harvesting rainwater and says his yields have gone up 60 percent through the technique. [1]
Tamman says that a 20-kilo crate from his farm had been selling for 1,000 to 1,200 rupees a month earlier, and that the price then fell to 200 rupees. He says he received about 7 rupees a kilo at the farm gate and that his production cost was 12 rupees. [1]
Tamman had to dump 60,000 kilograms of tomatoes, in April and May. He left the farm because he had no incentive, since he could not predict prices. He leased the land to a friend, who now grows flowers there. [1]
Tamman says farming is not easy money. He says about 70 percent of farm technology lies in the seed, and that the biggest improvement has come in maize. He says Pakistan is food secure, but food mismanagement is a serious challenge. [1]
Tamman says a 100 kg bag of canola cost 2,500 rupees before the price rose. He says he sold canola himself, and a 100 kg bag now sells for 10,500 rupees. [1]
Policy work
In late 2017, Tamman learned that Taimur had joined PTI. Tamman began with two days a week of work, and at first he worked unpaid. He worked on the team that set the agenda for the first 100 days. He also worked on a manifesto that expanded on the 100-day agenda. [1]
Tamman says the PM office was active after the oath-taking, and that he was among the first few dozen people to enter the office. He says his team made a national agriculture programme. He says the programme was worth 300 billion rupees and covered all four provinces, and that it was among the largest a federal government had produced. He says he is placed in his position as a technocrat. [1]
Views on government
Tamman says the aim was not to build 5 million homes but to create a regulatory framework. He says the government should stop hiring and use task-based contract staff. He says the power ministry has about 150,000 staff, and that overstaffing exists, but for the wrong things. [1]
Tamman says the airport should be outsourced. He says the state should build assets and outsource their running, collecting dividends. He says he sees Pakistan with more provinces in 2050. He says he is not really driven by money. [1]
Performance agreements
Tamman says performance agreements are happening in Pakistan for the first time in this form. He describes them as having quarterly targets. He says they have already had some impact, reduce subjective bias in judging performance, and help map out dependencies. [1]
Tamman says he has worked on performance agreements for three years. He says his team has since disbanded. [1]
Timeline
Appearances
| Date | Title | Where |
|---|---|---|
| 2021-12-24 | Pakistan's farmland is a science problem, not a land problem | Thought Behind Things |
Frequently asked questions
Who is Saad Tamman?
Saad Tamman is a technocrat who was the second hire at McKinsey's Pakistan office. He says his team made a national agriculture programme worth 300 billion rupees that covered all four provinces. He studied actuarial sciences in Canada and economics at Vanderbilt in Tennessee.[1]
What does Saad Tamman do?
Saad Tamman says he is placed in his position as a technocrat. He says he has worked on performance agreements for three years, and that his team has since disbanded.[1]
Where did Saad Tamman study?
Saad Tamman studied actuarial sciences in Canada and graduated in 2009. He also studied economics for two years at Vanderbilt in Tennessee.[1]
What did Saad Tamman do at McKinsey?
Saad Tamman was the second hire at McKinsey's Pakistan office. He worked on an education reforms project of the Punjab government. He left McKinsey after about a year, at the start of 2016.[1]
What is the national agriculture programme Saad Tamman worked on?
Saad Tamman says his team made a national agriculture programme. He says it was worth 300 billion rupees and covered all four provinces. He says it was among the largest a federal government had produced.[1]
What are performance agreements, according to Saad Tamman?
Saad Tamman describes performance agreements as having quarterly targets. He says they reduce subjective bias in judging performance and help map out dependencies. He says they are happening in Pakistan for the first time in this form.[1]
References
- Pakistan's farmland is a science problem, not a land problem . Thought Behind Things , 2021-12-24.
Show the source passages (87 statements)
- He went to high school in Lahore.
So, you know high school was in Lahore, right? In Aitchison.
- His father is a doctor who did not practise medicine.
because my father is a doctor. Right. Right? Unhone practice nahi ki
- His father was a district chairman.
Mere walid sahab district ke chairman thay
- His mother's family placed a high value on education.
my mother's side was they're very you know unko padhai ka bahut shauq hai.
- He wanted to do something different that he could not do in Pakistan.
I wanted to do something jo different hai. Pakistan mein nahi kar sakta tha.
- He studied actuarial sciences in Canada.
So, I did actuarial sciences, maine uh bahut mushkil thi. Kafi it was thanda tha Canada, Canada was very cold.
- He finished his degree six months ahead of schedule.
actually I completed uh six months before I was supposed to because summer semesters were slightly longer.
- He graduated in 2009, the year the housing financial crisis set in.
I graduated 2009, that was when the housing financial crisis kicked in.
- After graduating he did odd jobs, including work at an Egyptian restaurant.
I was doing odd jobs. I would I was working in an Egyptian restaurant.
- He worked at the company that founded BlackBerry.
I worked at uh yeh research and motion nahi hai, BlackBerry ki jo founding company.
- He worked on an assembly line in a programme that hired university students.
One of the programs they had was ki jo university ke students hain uh unko woh hire kar lete thay and we would work on the assembly line.
- His shifts on that job were 12 hours long.
12-12 ghante ki shift hoti thi.
- His dean suggested he think about going back.
so um usne kaha ki you know think about going back. And she would not have said that, woh is tarah mujhe na kehti, woh meri Dean thi.
- He decided that he had to go back.
Pehle bhi tha zyada, lekin I said ki you know I have to go back.
- He joined Tameer Microfinance, which he describes as the back-end arm of EasyPaisa.
and I joined uh Tameer Microfinance. Who was sort of the back-end arm of Yeah. EasyPaisa.
- He worked at Tameer Microfinance in 2010.
And just to sort of what year was this now? This was 2010. Okay.
- Working in microfinance made him think differently about business models.
microfinance mein waise uh if ek innovative business model hai, it made me think different.
- Mobilink, now Jazz, approached his team.
Jazz wanted, Mobilink then wanted to to do this. So, they approached us.
- His team then started a product for them.
We went and we started their MobiCash.
- HBL then approached his team to do the same.
Phir HBL ne approached us to do the same.
- The product launched for HBL as HBL Express is now called HBL Connect.
Aur phir HBL ki HBL uh Express ke naam se humne product launch kiya. Ab it's been now it's HBL Connect.
- He describes his work then as a hybrid tech, finance and data role.
I was in this uh uh this sort of like a hybrid tech finance data space.
- He applied for a Fulbright scholarship.
usse pehle I had applied for the Fulbright scholarship.
- After receiving the scholarship, he said he would stay only five or six months.
woh I received the scholarship, toh maine unko bataya tha ke ji main sirf paanch-che mahine yahan pe hoonga.
- He studied at Vanderbilt in Tennessee.
maine Vanderbilt, Tennessee
- He studied economics for two years.
So, I was there for two years, I studied economics.
- He also interned at the Planning Commission.
darmiyan mein maine Planning Commission mein internship bhi ki.
- He says he is not really driven by money.
I'm not really driven by money.
- He worked for six or seven months before his McKinsey role began.
Jab tak mera McKinsey mein nahi hua tha, I was working there for, uh, six-seven months.
- He was told that McKinsey was opening an office in Pakistan and that he should apply there.
Toh usne kaha ke McKinsey ka Pakistan mein daftar khul raha hai, uh, aur wahan apply karo.
- He was the second hire at McKinsey's Pakistan office.
Uh, I was the second hire, the first hire was Ali Ehsan.
- He worked on an education reforms project of the Punjab government.
Um, Punjab government ka education reforms project.
- He left McKinsey after about a year.
I worked for a year, I took a sort of, I, I left, uh, phir uske baad, uh, it was me on my own.
- He left McKinsey at the start of 2016.
Haan, 16, 16 ke start mein.
- He did not want to move to Karachi, and his family was where he was.
because I didn't want to move to Karachi, my family was here
- He was asked to come help out and told he could do whatever he wanted in the meantime.
Uh, he said that, you know, come help me out and then in the meantime do whatever you want.
- He worked with a venture capital fund.
So, it was called Glowfish ke naam se woh tha, uh, venture capital fund.
- He then received work from the Gates Foundation, on a study concerning National Bank.
mujhe phir Gates Foundation se aa gayi, National Bank ki ek study thi, usme kaam kiya.
- He worked on a National Bank payments strategy for digital financial inclusion.
National Bank ke andar unki ek, again, digital financial inclusion ke upar unki ek, payments ki, payments ki strategy banani thi toh us pe kaam kiya
- He tried growing quinoa.
Haan, haan, I tried quinoa. I tried quinoa.
- He says quinoa grew well, but there was no market for it.
It worked. It worked, but quinoa ka na, woh market nahi hai.
- He has started harvesting rainwater.
So, what I've started doing is ke I have to harvest the rain water.
- He says his yields have gone up 60 percent through this technique.
Just through this technique, um, you know, my yields have gone up 60%.
- His mother gave him her land.
meri waalida ne mujhe apni zameen di
- He began growing vegetables there in 2013 or 2014.
Toh maine wahan pe vegetables ugani shuru keen. 2014 ki, 13-14 ki baat hai.
- A month earlier, a 20-kilo crate from his farm was selling for 1,000 to 1,200 rupees.
aisa hua ke ek din, ek mahina pehle 20 kilo ka ek crate jo nikalta tha farm se, woh 1000-1200 rupay ka bik raha tha.
- The price of a crate then fell to 200 rupees.
woh keemat aa gayi 200 rupay pe.
- He received about 7 rupees a kilo at the farm gate.
farm ko jo milte thay, was around 7 rupay kg.
- He says his production cost was 12 rupees.
Meri production cost 12 rupay ki thi.
- He had to dump 60,000 kilograms of tomatoes.
I had to dump 60,000 kgs of tomatoes.
- The tomato dumping happened in April and May.
This was in the April-May ke mahine mein.
- He left the farm because he had no incentive, since he could not predict prices.
Main nahi predict kar sakta. Toh mere paas incentive raha hi nahi, maine woh farm chhod di.
- He leased the land to a friend, who now grows flowers there.
Maine apne woh dost ko zameen thekay pe de di, wahan phool ugata hai woh.
- He says farming is not easy money.
Um people think ki aap bas you know kaash kar dete hain, phir kaatna hota hai, it's easy money. No, it's not.
- He says about 70 percent of farm technology lies in the seed.
actually fun fact yeh hai ki in agriculture 70% jo technology hai na woh seed hai.
- He says the biggest improvement has come in maize.
Uh I feel ki jo sabse zyada improvement aayi hai, woh aayi hai in maize.
- He says Pakistan is food secure, but food mismanagement is a serious challenge.
I think we are food secure, very food mismanagement is a bada ek serious challenge hai.
- He says a 100 kg bag of canola cost 2,500 rupees before the price rose.
Kyunki canola jo hai, woh pehle 2500 rupaye ka 100 kg ka bag bazaar mein bikta tha.
- He says he sold canola himself, and a 100 kg bag now sells for 10,500 rupees.
Ab woh jo bag hai, woh 10,500 rupaye ka bikta hai. Maine khud becha hai.
- He learned in late 2017 that Taimur had joined PTI.
2017 ke end mein mujhe pata chala Taimur ne PTI join kar li hai.
- He began with two days a week of work.
So, I started with two days a week.
- He first worked unpaid.
Haan, we were not not being paid in the start.
- He describes the cell as technocratic, very to the point and ad hoc, set up for a particular purpose with an expiry.
It was a very technocratic, very to the point, very ad hoc, set for a particular purpose, has an expiry, right?
- The cell was led by a man he still works with.
Isko lead karte the Arbab Shahzad sahab, jinke saath hum abhi kaam karte hain.
- He worked on the team that set the agenda for the first 100 days.
Which was actually an agenda ke humne pehle 100 din mein kya agenda banana hai?
- He worked on a manifesto that expanded on the 100-day agenda.
we worked on this manifesto. Manifesto was basically sort of expanding on the 100 days thing.
- He says the PM office was active after the oath-taking.
hum to jis din oath hua na uske baad PM office was active.
- He was among the first few dozen people to enter the office.
We were amongst the, I think, the first few dozen dozen odd people who entered the office.
- He says his team made a national agriculture programme.
humne National Agriculture Program banaya.
- He says the programme was worth 300 billion rupees and covered all four provinces.
300 arab rupay ka humne program banaya jo chaaron soobon mein tha.
- He says the programme was among the largest a federal government had produced.
this was one of the most, the largest program that a federal government abhi tak jitne bane the.
- He says the aim was not to build 5 million homes but to create a regulatory framework.
ke 50 lakh ghar humne nahi banane, humne regulatory framework us tarah karna hai
- He says the government should stop hiring and use task-based contract staff.
Yes, the government should stop hiring. They should go more towards contractual staff, jo task based ho.
- He says the power ministry has about 150,000 staff.
Power ministry ke paas dedh lakh banda hai.
- He says overstaffing exists, but for the wrong things.
Overstaffing hai aur for the wrong things.
- He says the airport should be outsourced.
Outsource the airport.
- He says the state should build assets and outsource their running, collecting dividends.
Build the asset, outsource it, enjoy the dividends.
- He says performance agreements are happening in Pakistan for the first time in this form.
It's, uh, happening for the first time in Pakistan in this fashion.
- He describes performance agreements as having quarterly targets.
Unke quarter-wise targets hain.
- He says performance agreements have already had some impact.
Yes, I think it it already has had some impact peeche se.
- He says performance agreements reduce subjective bias in judging performance.
Jo jo subjective human bias hota hai na in in assessing performance, woh kam ho jata hai.
- He says performance agreements help map out dependencies.
Sorry, map out the dependencies.
- He says he has worked on performance agreements for three years.
performance agreements mein hum 3 saal se kaam kar rahe hain.
- He says his team has since disbanded.
ab hum dis-band ho gaye hue hain
- He says he is placed in his position as a technocrat.
I am here placed as a technocrat.
- He gave his age as 35.
Is that is public news? 35. 35.
- He says he sees Pakistan with more provinces in 2050.
I see Pakistan with more provinces.