Jawad Nayyar & Abdullah Khan

leaders at DAO PropTech

Compiled from 1 recorded interview. Every statement below is drawn from the passage cited beside it.

Jawad Nayyar & Abdullah Khan are the chief Vision officer & chief product officer of DAO PropTech. After graduating, Nayyar returned to Pakistan and started a healthcare venture in Islamabad. Nayyar says the venture did not appeal to him much and was not his forte.

Early life and background

Khan grew up in Abbottabad and attended Burn Hall. He moved to Islamabad at 16 to do his A-levels, and says he met Nayyar and most of the future DAO team while doing them. [1]

Nayyar's father is a developer who has built a society and has about 35 years of development experience. Nayyar says real estate was his family business and that he avoided it for a long time. [1]

Education

Khan did his undergraduate degree at NUST, graduating in 2009, where he studied BBA Finance and Investments. He also completed a Masters in Public Policy and Data Analytics. [1]

Career of Jawad Nayyar

After graduating, Nayyar returned to Pakistan and started a healthcare venture in Islamabad. Nayyar says the venture did not appeal to him much and was not his forte. He moved into the construction industry and did blockchain work from 2014 onwards. Through a large construction company, he worked on government and semi-government construction contracts. [1]

Nayyar was personally involved in a USAID-funded project at NUST, the Center for Advanced Studies in Energy. He also worked on a hostel building at NUST, a library building for Fauji Foundation and villas for Emaar. [1]

Around 2008 to 2009, close to his graduation, Nayyar wrote a paper on digital currencies. He met a person in Islamabad who introduced him to blockchain and cryptocurrencies. Nayyar says he and that person consulted on blockchain and crypto until around 2017, when the government put it into a grey area. He says he is not a crypto millionaire and does not hold many cryptos now. [1]

Nayyar says his crypto, blockchain and construction experience came together in real estate. He also works part-time as a portfolio manager in the evenings. [1]

Career of Abdullah Khan

Khan worked for about five years in international development with a German development agency. He worked with UNHCR for a year and a half, mainly in Balochistan. He did tech consulting for a year in the US before returning to Pakistan, and says he moved back to focus on the people in his life there. [1]

Khan says he reconnected with Nayyar and his blockchain papers when he started at Careem. He says Islamabad was the second biggest city in the Careem network globally. Khan left Careem in 2019, when the Uber acquisition was announced. [1]

Khan joined a San Francisco data science company that had a polio project in Pakistan. He says the government of Sindh took his company's software as its go-to software. Khan moved full-time to DAO PropTech as its Chief Product Officer. [1]

DAO PropTech

Nayyar says DAO stands for Decentralized Autonomous Organization. He says DAO PropTech is not in the business of buying assets, and that its core aim is to educate people about real estate. DAO charges a very small transaction fee. [1]

According to Nayyar, DAO uses the replacement cost method for its valuations, which are usually 30 to 40% below comparable market rates. He says DAO uses the most conservative pricing or valuation method on its platform. Nayyar says DAO's controlled pricing makes purchases 20 to 30% cheaper than the market, depending on the development phase. Buyers can start with as little as 50 or 100 square feet, and the system does not leave buyers with a fixed payment liability. [1]

Nayyar says DAO shows each project's NOCs, agreements and costing transparently on its platform, and publishes project updates every two weeks. It plans to add a live feed by the end of the year. Every transaction must be shown on DAO's ledger, no matter who sells it, and buyers whose transaction is missing from the ledger can call DAO's helpline to register a dispute. DAO holds developers to milestones and acts as custodian of the transactions. [1]

Nayyar says DAO's due diligence tool evaluates each project on around 60 metrics, and the score is out of 1000 points. DAO only considers projects that score above a set threshold. The framework was designed with founding team members who are professors. [1]

Nayyar and Khan say DAO raises only the financing its projects need every three months, and that their model prevents overselling. Nayyar says area is only available for sale when finances are needed in the next three months. He says land on DAO projects belongs to a special purpose vehicle, not an individual, and is collateralised against every fund raised because contracts come from the same SPV. [1]

Engagement with the SECP

Nayyar says an SECP warning listed six companies, including DAO PropTech, and was issued on 17 December. He says DAO PropTech had received nothing from the SECP before the warning. Khan led the committee in discussions with the SECP, and the talks lasted well over six weeks. [1]

Nayyar says DAO PropTech told the SECP that it does not do fractionalisation, and gave the SECP its original bank statements to show it is not collecting any money. He says developers have always sold in fractions, which the industry calls installments. According to Nayyar, the SECP did not revoke DAO PropTech's license. [1]

Nayyar says DAO PropTech will keep working until the SECP creates a new regulation for fractionalisation. He says the SECP is going to create a special category and licensing, which it will soon open to public viewing. [1]

Views

Nayyar says crypto was a very big first use case of blockchain. He uses Uber as an example of GPS, smartphones and credit cards creating a new on-demand service. Nayyar and Khan say every form of value exchange should be backed by assets, and that current money is backed by government credit, bonds and assets. [1]

Nayyar and Khan say property is a non-perishable, income-yielding, long-term asset, and a better store of value across time and space than cash. They say only bigger players can invest in property because it is illiquid. They also say a property's real value combines its cost, history, growth and income yield, and that comparable-property data is available globally but not in Pakistan. [1]

Nayyar says average inflation over 40 years has been about 7.5%, and average GDP growth about 3.8%. He says property in Pakistan grows at around 12%. He says every percentage point above the 9% risk-free rate carries risk, and that he is no one to guarantee anything. Khan says 12 to 13% a year is achievable for investors with a slightly lower risk appetite. Nayyar says Islamabad rental yields are below 2% in most cases, and that capitalisation rates are about 3 to 3.5% in developing areas and up to about 4% in newly developed ones. [1]

Nayyar says owning property in Islamabad feels like a distant dream for professionals. Khan says Pakistan has a very large population with very high housing needs, and that about half of the population is under 25. He says players like DAO would want to solve Pakistan's housing needs over the next 30 years, and that future Pakistani cities should be designed for their users, for energy efficiency and for protection against climate effects. Nayyar hopes Pakistan in 30 years will be a more just society with a fairer economic system. [1]

Timeline

2009
Nayyar graduates from Warwick and Khan graduates from NUST.[1]
2014
Nayyar begins blockchain work.[1]
2017
The government puts blockchain and crypto into a grey area, ending the consulting work Nayyar describes.[1]
2019
Khan leaves Careem when the Uber acquisition is announced.[1]

Appearances

DateTitleWhere
2022-03-11 The digital road to property ownership in Pakistan Thought Behind Things

Frequently asked questions

Where did Jawad Nayyar & Abdullah Khan study?

Jawad Nayyar attended LUMS briefly and then moved to Warwick, where he studied philosophy, politics and economics and graduated in 2009. Abdullah Khan did his undergraduate degree at NUST, graduating in 2009, where he studied BBA Finance and Investments. Khan also completed a Masters in Public Policy and Data Analytics.[1]

Where is Jawad Nayyar & Abdullah Khan from?

Abdullah Khan grew up in Abbottabad and moved to Islamabad at 16 to do his A-levels. Jawad Nayyar returned to Pakistan after graduating and started a healthcare venture in Islamabad.[1]

What does DAO stand for in DAO PropTech?

Jawad Nayyar says DAO stands for Decentralized Autonomous Organization. DAO PropTech describes itself in its incorporation documents as a technology platform connecting buyers and users of real estate products and services.[1]

What did Abdullah Khan do before DAO PropTech?

Abdullah Khan worked for about five years in international development with a German development agency and worked with UNHCR for a year and a half, mainly in Balochistan. He did tech consulting for a year in the US before returning to Pakistan. Khan also joined a San Francisco data science company that had a polio project in Pakistan.[1]

How does DAO PropTech value property?

Jawad Nayyar says DAO uses the replacement cost method for its valuations. He says these valuations are usually 30 to 40% below comparable market rates. Nayyar also says DAO uses the most conservative pricing or valuation method on its platform.[1]

References

  1. The digital road to property ownership in Pakistan . Thought Behind Things , 2022-03-11.
Show the source passages (92 statements)
  1. Jawad Nayyar completed his high schooling and then attended LUMS briefly before moving to Warwick. Main BMI mein meri high schooling thi and then uske baad I went to LUMS briefly and then on to Warwick.
  2. Jawad Nayyar studied philosophy, politics and economics at Warwick and graduated in 2009. I did my undergrads in philosophy, politics and economics from Warwick, graduated in 2009 and then came back.
  3. After graduating, Jawad Nayyar returned to Pakistan and started a healthcare venture in Islamabad. I came back to Pakistan straight away, started off with a healthcare venture here in Islamabad.
  4. Jawad Nayyar says the healthcare venture did not appeal to him much and was not his forte. did not like, you know, appeal to me much, it wasn't my forte.
  5. Jawad Nayyar moved into the construction industry and did blockchain work from 2014 onwards. And then I went into construction industry, had some real estate experience with it and also did some blockchain work from 2014 onwards.
  6. Jawad Nayyar worked on government and semi-government construction contracts through a large construction company. went on to partner up with a big construction company here and I did their contracts, government contracts primarily
  7. Jawad Nayyar was personally involved in a USAID-funded project at NUST, the Center for Advanced Studies in Energy. primarily I personally was involved in a project here in NUST, jo USAID ka funded project tha, Center for Advanced Studies in Energy.
  8. Jawad Nayyar worked on a hostel building at NUST, a library building for Fauji Foundation and villas for Emaar. Did a hostel building in NUST as well, a library building in Fauji Foundation, did villas for Emaar
  9. Jawad Nayyar wrote a paper on digital currencies around 2008 to 2009, close to his graduation. So, uski basis pe I wrote a paper, shared it with my boys, they made a lot of fun of it. This was 2008-9, very close to my graduation.
  10. Jawad Nayyar met a person in Islamabad who introduced him to blockchain and cryptocurrencies. and he introduced me to blockchain and cryptos and obviously we connected instantly
  11. Jawad Nayyar says he and the person who introduced him to blockchain consulted on blockchain and crypto until around 2017, when the government put it into a grey area. we started off with the consultation on blockchain and cryptos until it was like, you know, put into a grey area by the government around 2017.
  12. Jawad Nayyar says he is not a crypto millionaire and does not hold many cryptos now. I don't have a lot of cryptos in my wallet now, if that's the question. I'm not a crypto millionaire now.
  13. Jawad Nayyar says real estate was his family business and that he avoided it for a long time. real estate was my family business, was in the blood. I avoided it for the longest of times, it was very boring.
  14. Jawad Nayyar completed a real estate diploma through an MIT online course. I did this real estate diploma from MIT online course.
  15. Jawad Nayyar says his crypto, blockchain and construction experience came together in real estate. But with crypto coming into it, with blockchain knowledge and crypto knowledge and a very hands-on construction experience, I think the dots really connected well
  16. Jawad Nayyar says DAO stands for Decentralized Autonomous Organization. Decentralized Autonomous Organization
  17. Abdullah Khan grew up in Abbottabad and attended Burn Hall. I grew up in Abbottabad, went to one school all my life, Burn Hall.
  18. Abdullah Khan moved to Islamabad at 16 to do his A-levels. Then came to Islamabad at the age of 16 to do my A-levels.
  19. Abdullah Khan says he met Jawad Nayyar and most of the future DAO team while doing his A-levels. So, that's when I went to BMI for A-levels and that's when I met Jawad and most of the team and Dao's executive.
  20. Abdullah Khan did his undergraduate degree at NUST, graduating in 2009. Later on, after that, I went to NUST, did my undergrad from there, 2009.
  21. Abdullah Khan studied BBA Finance and Investments. Maine BBA Finance and Investments.
  22. Abdullah Khan worked for about five years in international development with a German development agency. So, un 5 saalon mein I was mainly working in international development with a German development agency.
  23. Abdullah Khan worked with UNHCR for a year and a half, mainly in Balochistan. So, I joined UN-HCR for a year and a half, worked there in Balochistan mainly.
  24. Abdullah Khan completed a Masters in Public Policy and Data Analytics. I did Masters in Public Policy and Data Analytics.
  25. Abdullah Khan did tech consulting for a year in the US before returning to Pakistan. I did tech consulting for a year in the US before I decided to come back to Pakistan.
  26. Abdullah Khan says he moved back to Pakistan to focus on the people in his life there. I really wanted to like, you know, focus on the people in my life which were mostly centered in Pakistan
  27. Abdullah Khan says he reconnected with Jawad Nayyar and his blockchain papers when he started at Careem. That's and when I reconnected with Jawad and his blockchain papers.
  28. Abdullah Khan left Careem in 2019, when the Uber acquisition was announced. So, when I was exiting Careem in 2019, that's when Uber acquisition was announced.
  29. Abdullah Khan says Islamabad was the second biggest city in the Careem network globally. so Islamabad was the second biggest city in the whole Careem network globally.
  30. Abdullah Khan joined a San Francisco data science company that had a polio project in Pakistan. I joined a data science company based out of San Francisco, but they had a project in Pakistan to improve polio
  31. Abdullah Khan says the government of Sindh took his company's software as its go-to software. So, then our software was the go-to software that the government of Sindh took.
  32. Abdullah Khan moved full-time to DAO PropTech as its Chief Product Officer. till I moved full-time to Dao PropTech as the Chief Product Officer.
  33. Jawad Nayyar says Abdullah Khan led the committee in discussions with the SECP. we formed a committee. Abdullah was uh leading it and so they are in discussion with the SECP.
  34. Jawad Nayyar says the SECP warning listed six companies, including DAO PropTech, and was issued on 17 December. And it listed 6 companies which unfortunately included Dao PropTech as well. This was 17th of December.
  35. Jawad Nayyar says DAO PropTech had received nothing from the SECP before the warning. We hadn't received anything prior to that.
  36. Jawad Nayyar says DAO PropTech's talks with the SECP lasted well over six weeks. our interaction which lasted for well over 6 weeks, we were able to explain it to them
  37. Jawad Nayyar says the SECP did not revoke DAO PropTech's license. SECP did not revoke our license, you know, and we we are happy to work with with such a progressive SECP.
  38. Jawad Nayyar says DAO PropTech describes itself in its incorporation documents as a technology platform connecting buyers and users of real estate products and services. that we are a technology platform which connects buyers and users of real estate products and services.
  39. Jawad Nayyar says DAO PropTech gave the SECP its original bank statements to show it is not collecting any money. we've handed them our original bank statements to provide that you know we are not collecting any money.
  40. Jawad Nayyar says DAO PropTech will keep working until the SECP creates a new regulation for fractionalisation. we uh continue uh our work as we are doing uh until a regulation in the form of uh uh like you know, we we'll have to uh see what they call it, but it's more about like you know, uh the SECP uh creating a new regulation for fractionalization.
  41. Jawad Nayyar says DAO PropTech told the SECP that it does not do fractionalisation. the certain objection that they had with fractionalization, ke hum fractionalization nahi kar rahe.
  42. Jawad Nayyar says the SECP is going to create a special category and licensing, which it will soon open to public viewing. SECP is now going to create a special category and a licensing which they'll soon open up to public viewing
  43. Jawad Nayyar says DAO PropTech is not in the business of buying assets. We are not in the business of buying assets.
  44. Jawad Nayyar says developers have always sold in fractions, which the industry calls installments. developers hamesha se fractions mein hi bechte hain, un fractions ko hum installments bolte hain.
  45. Jawad Nayyar says crypto was a very big first use case of blockchain. Cryptos definitely pehla ek bahut bada use case tha uh uh blockchain ka.
  46. Jawad Nayyar uses Uber as an example of GPS, smartphones and credit cards creating a new on-demand service. jab mobile phone ka GPS technology intersected with uh smartphones and credit cards, toh aapke paas na ek Uber jaisa na element create ho gaya.
  47. Jawad Nayyar and Abdullah Khan say every form of value exchange should be backed by assets. every form of value exchange or value transfer uh I believe should be backed by assets.
  48. Jawad Nayyar and Abdullah Khan say current money is backed by government credit, bonds and assets. Current current current uh money is backed by credit of the government, bonds and assets.
  49. Jawad Nayyar and Abdullah Khan say property is a non-perishable, income-yielding, long-term asset. Property is a non-perishable income yielding long-term asset.
  50. Jawad Nayyar and Abdullah Khan say property is a better store of value across time and space than cash. property is a far better tool to store value across time and space, Right. to save whatever you've earned than keeping it in liquid cash under under your pillow
  51. Jawad Nayyar and Abdullah Khan say only bigger players can invest in property because it is illiquid. because it's not liquid and because it has all these problems, uh only only the bigger players are able to play it.
  52. Jawad Nayyar and Abdullah Khan say a property's real value combines its cost, history, growth and income yield. the real value probably would be a combination of factors including how much does it cost, the historical value, the growth over it, uh probably uh the the income yield on it.
  53. Jawad Nayyar and Abdullah Khan say comparable-property data is available globally but not in Pakistan. the data of of competitive properties uh that is globally available but not in Pakistan.
  54. Jawad Nayyar says average inflation over 40 years has been about 7.5%, and average GDP growth about 3.8%. we've done numbers, uh 40 years numbers, the average inflation has been 7.5%, the average GDP has been 3.8% or something.
  55. Jawad Nayyar says property in Pakistan grows at around 12%. So your property grows at around 12%.
  56. Jawad Nayyar says DAO uses the replacement cost method for its valuations. So replacement cost method is what we try to implement at Dao.
  57. Jawad Nayyar says DAO's replacement cost valuations are usually 30 to 40% below comparable market rates. which is usually 30 to 40% less according to what we have done so far, 30 to 40% less than the comparative market rates
  58. Jawad Nayyar says DAO uses the most conservative pricing or valuation method on its platform. hamare system pe uh hum most conservative pricing ya valuation method uh karte hain.
  59. Jawad Nayyar says DAO's core aim is to educate people about real estate. what really lies at the heart of Dao Proptech is ke hum logon ko educate karna chahte hain
  60. Jawad Nayyar says owning property in Islamabad feels like a distant dream for professionals. Hamare jaise log jo professional jobs karte hain, telcos mein, oils mein, idhar Islamabad mein, I mean owning a real estate piece in Pakistan or in Islamabad seems like you know every passing day it seems like a distant dream.
  61. Jawad Nayyar says DAO shows each project's NOCs, agreements and costing transparently on its platform. hum log apne har project ki jitne NOCs, jitne uske agreements, jitni uski costing hai sab kuch transparently dikha dete hain.
  62. Jawad Nayyar says DAO publishes project updates every two weeks. we are also solving transparency with very project updates jo hum har do hafte baad karte hain
  63. Jawad Nayyar says DAO plans to add a live feed by the end of the year. we are moving towards end of this year live feed laga den usme.
  64. Jawad Nayyar says buyers can start with as little as 50 or 100 square feet on DAO. They can start their journey with as low as 50 or 100 square feet.
  65. Jawad Nayyar says DAO's system does not leave buyers with a fixed payment liability. In our system the the good thing is you don't have a liability that you have to do every time
  66. Jawad Nayyar says DAO holds developers to milestones and acts as custodian of the transactions. And all the transactions are essentially uh what we are the custodians for, hum jo developer side of the projects hai hum unko bhi uh on our milestones uh adhere karate hain
  67. Jawad Nayyar says DAO's controlled pricing makes purchases 20 to 30% cheaper than the market, depending on the development phase. because of our controlled pricing, everything that you do buy on Dao will be 20 to 30% cheaper than the market depending on its developmental phase.
  68. Jawad Nayyar says he is no one to guarantee anything. I am I am no one to guarantee anything people should understand.
  69. Jawad Nayyar says every percentage point above the 9% risk-free rate carries risk. every percentage point that you get above the risk free rate of the of the nation which is 9%, involves certain risks.
  70. Jawad Nayyar says DAO's due diligence tool evaluates each project on around 60 metrics. which is something jiske andar hum ek project ko around 60 different metrics evaluate karte hain.
  71. Jawad Nayyar says the due diligence score is out of 1000 points. the outcome is a score jo 1000 points mein se hota hai.
  72. Jawad Nayyar says DAO only considers projects that score above a set threshold. agar wo ek certain threshold uh ke score ke upar aata hai only then we consider it.
  73. Jawad Nayyar says the due diligence framework was designed with founding team members who are professors. This is a framework that we've designed with uh a few uh founding team members jo kafi serious aur sanjeeda qism ke professors hain.
  74. Jawad Nayyar and Abdullah Khan say DAO raises only the financing its projects need every three months. hum sirf utni hi financing raise karte hain every three months jitni required hai.
  75. Jawad Nayyar and Abdullah Khan say their model prevents overselling. that's why hamare model mein na overselling ho sakti hai
  76. Jawad Nayyar says area is only available for sale when finances are needed in the next three months. Area is only available for sale when finances are required immediately in the next three months.
  77. Jawad Nayyar's father is a developer who has built a society. my father my father is a developer he was one of the partners at Karakoram, he's built a society as well.
  78. Jawad Nayyar says his father has about 35 years of development experience. He's had a long journey 35 years ka unka development ka experience hai.
  79. Jawad Nayyar says he also works part-time as a portfolio manager in the evenings. So part time mein main waise sham ko portfolio management bhi karta hoon.
  80. Abdullah Khan says 12 to 13% a year is achievable for investors with a slightly lower risk appetite. 12 to 13% is achievable and will do wonders for you if you are you know slightly less risk appetite.
  81. Abdullah Khan says Pakistan has a very large population with very high housing needs. Hamari bahut badi population hai jiski bahut zyada housing needs hain.
  82. Abdullah Khan says about half of Pakistan's population is under 25. jo hamari 25 saal se kam age ki 50% population hai
  83. Abdullah Khan says players like DAO would want to solve Pakistan's housing needs over the next 30 years. So players like us would would want to be the one solving this for the next 30 years.
  84. Abdullah Khan says future Pakistani cities should be designed for their users, for energy efficiency and for protection against climate effects. Jo un users ke liye bane, un energy efficient practices ke liye bane aur aur aur aur is climate ki adverse effect se bach ke rahe.
  85. Jawad Nayyar says he hopes Pakistan in 30 years will be a more just society with a fairer economic system. I think it should be a much more just society, a much more fairer economic system.
  86. Jawad Nayyar says Islamabad rental yields are below 2% in most cases. Islamabad ka rental yield in most cases 2% se kam hai.
  87. Jawad Nayyar says capitalisation rates are about 3 to 3.5% in developing areas and up to about 4% in newly developed ones. So agar aap developing areas mein dekhenge to 3 to 3.5% milega, very newly developed mein dekhenge to 4 bhi mil jayega.
  88. Jawad Nayyar says DAO charges a very small transaction fee. We do charge a very small transaction fee, but that's about it.
  89. Jawad Nayyar says every transaction must be shown on DAO's ledger, no matter who sells it. every transaction is to be shown on the ledger no matter who who sells it.
  90. Jawad Nayyar says buyers whose transaction is missing from the ledger can call DAO's helpline to register a dispute. if you have paid money and your transaction is not available on that ledger, you can call our helpline and you know get a get a dispute registered.
  91. Jawad Nayyar says land on DAO projects belongs to a special purpose vehicle, not an individual. So, so firstly, the land does not belong to an individual, it belongs to a SPV, a special purpose vehicle company.
  92. Jawad Nayyar says land is collateralised against every fund raised, because contracts come from the same SPV. Against every fund that is raised, land is collateralized because the contract is given through the same SPV.