Thought Behind Things · Oct 25, 2023 · 1:34:42
How Tecno built Pakistan's largest phone factory
Tecno's head of sales and head of marketing explain how a brand most of upper-class Pakistan had never heard of put up the country's first smartphone factory, took a quarter of the market, and now wants a slice of a $120 billion export trade.
with Adeel Tahir & Ali Raza
10 min read
The brand that came out of nowhere
Muzamil opens the conversation by admitting something the top one or two percent of Pakistan rarely sees. Tecno, he says, “came out of nowhere.” Drive through any city and the banners are everywhere on the buildings; talk to almost anyone working for you and the phone in their hand is a Tecno or one of its near-rivals. But for the slice of the country that upgrades from an old iPhone 6 or 7, the brand is close to invisible. The episode is an attempt to understand how a company that registered almost nothing with the wealthy became, in his telling, one of the top two phone sellers in the country.
His two guests are the people who would know: Adeel Tahir, who heads sales, and Ali Raza, who heads marketing. Both have spent their careers inside the unglamorous middle of the Pakistani phone business. Adeel’s path is its own argument — he started at Samsung in 2004 when “nobody knew” the brand and Nokia, Sony Ericsson, and LG owned the room, then went through Huawei’s device launch, a local brand, and Q Mobile before joining Tecno in 2018. He has a pattern, he says: he keeps joining companies “in a starting phase” and helping scale them up.
Building the factory before the policy
The most counterintuitive fact in the conversation lands early, and Muzamil flags that most people have it backwards. The common story is that a government policy arrived and manufacturers followed. Adeel says it happened the other way around.
When Tecno was still importing finished units, every conversation with the government stalled on the same point — no international company had actually put money on the ground, so why write a policy for one that might never come? Tecno’s answer was to remove the excuse. It convinced its Chinese headquarters to invest first. Delegations came, negotiations ran, and in 2019 the company put up what Adeel calls the first smartphone factory in Pakistan, in Karachi, through a joint venture. “We took a risk,” he says, “which in hindsight paid off.” Only once the investment, the technology transfer, and the resident Chinese engineers were visible did the policy follow.
The policy then pulled the rest of the industry in behind it. PTA’s duty-paid registration system — the one where a phone that hasn’t cleared its duty won’t activate — forced tax onto handsets and made local assembly the rational choice. The result is a near-total conversion. “We can proudly say,” Adeel notes, “today Pakistan has 31 factories with licenses. Almost 94% of the phones in Pakistan are made in Pakistan.”
A brand for the masses, by design
Muzamil presses on the obvious worry about “a brand for the masses” — that it really means low value, dated technology, a phone that’s cheap because the parts are several generations old. Adeel pushes back on both the framing and the assumption.
The strategy, he says, comes from knowing exactly who Tecno is. The group is in more than 70 countries and ranks among the top five phone manufacturers in the world — all of it built “without having presence in the US, even China or Europe.” That is the deliberate inversion. A normal international brand launches in America, then Europe, Australia, the Middle East, and reaches Pakistan last. Tecno runs it backwards, going first to developing markets where buyers have real income constraints and where a phone might represent five or six months of saving. For that buyer, value for money is not a slogan. The same philosophy made Tecno number one in Africa, helped along by a specific piece of software work: tuning the camera so that group photos of people with darker skin tones could be properly differentiated, a problem the bigger brands had not solved.
On the price gap to a flagship, Adeel is blunt. Above a certain tier — the five- or six-lakh phones — “whoever has to buy it will buy it.” But for a phone around two lakh, the same technology already exists: the same processors, the same memory, similar Sony or Leica sensors, aluminium and steel bodies. “Usability ke hisaab se, technology ke hisaab se” there is no major difference. The price difference, he argues, is brand value — the same two-thousand-rupee shirt that costs twenty thousand with a logo on it. His advice to buyers is unusually honest for a salesman: if you’re spending around two lakh, you are better off not buying the most expensive brand.
Where the real difference is made
Ali Raza takes the point somewhere more useful than specs. The consumer, he says, “knows himself too good now.” Marketing only works if it hits a real pain-point. A chef needs water resistance and durability, not a portrait camera. A creator needs the camera and the AI filters that feed TikTok and Instagram reels. The job is to find the want and the need, not to broadcast a key selling point nobody asked for.
Both guests converge on the thing they feel went under-discussed: after-sales service. Adeel puts it as strongly as he can. A brand “cannot even exist” in Pakistan without a comprehensive service network, because the user here is hard on the device — bad weather, rough conditions, a phone that falls off a bicycle. Tecno runs its own company-operated service centres in more than 15 cities, with an in-phone app listing helpline numbers and local addresses, and a software fix often handed back within the hour. There’s a 12-plus-one warranty — a thirteenth month, counted from the activation date locked into the software when the SIM first goes in — and parts availability of at least two to three years, backstopped by China when local inventory runs out.
Muzamil ties it to a pattern he’s seen elsewhere in consumer electronics: products are now easy to copy, so what differentiates a brand long term is the relationship it builds after the sale. He recounts his own driver’s repair ordeal — the budget-phone charging port that breaks, the days of “excruciating pain” getting it fixed — as exactly the experience a brand that owns its service network should be able to remove.
The foldable that doesn’t look like a Tecno
Midway through, the guests pull out the product the conversation has been circling: the Phantom V foldable, with a flip model alongside it. Muzamil opens it and treats it as a near-tablet — seven inches unfolded — with an aerospace-grade hinge that the company holds a patent on, designed so the screen reads as a single plane when open. Preorders start 27 October, with general availability 3 November, at a price the guests call “very competitive” and Adeel estimates at around 200,000 rupees.
The launch is on par with the global release, not lagging it, and most units are imported initially while case machinery and R&D move toward local assembly “eventually, like cars.” Muzamil’s honest reaction is the point of the segment: “I’m sorry to be saying this, but this doesn’t look like Tecno.” Which is precisely the bet — the next move up-market, made while staying true to the affordable core.
The software underneath
The camera conversation opens into a quieter argument about where the real engineering now lives. When the hardware is the same everywhere, Ali says, “it’s not the sensor game, it’s the computational algorithmic processing.” Tecno runs HiOS, a proprietary layer on top of a standard Android base, and the company’s imaging — including how it uses the white light from an RGBW sensor for night photography — sits in patents on that layer. Muzamil extends it: increasingly it’s not the lens but the AI neural engine in the processor that enhances a picture in real time. The brand that owns both hardware and software, he notes, also owns a continuous relationship with the user long after the sale — which becomes the seed of a longer thread about credit and buy-now-pay-later that both sides agree needs telcos, financiers, and licences to actually build.
From assembly to a real export industry
Muzamil steers the back half toward the economy, because this is where assembly stops being the achievement and starts being the floor. Import substitution worked. The harder question is localisation: in a high-value product like a phone, most of the cost is components, so true dollar savings — and any export competitiveness — require building a local components ecosystem, not just bolting parts together.
Adeel frames the prize with numbers. Vietnam exports about $40 billion in phones a year; India $8–10 billion, with most iPhone 15 units now made there; China $120 billion. Capture even 10% of China’s figure and Pakistan has a $12 billion export industry — achievable, he argues, not by chasing every major player but by strategically landing two or three. The on-ramp is unglamorous: localise packaging, chargers, cables. He can already see cottage industry forming around connectors and wires, and notes that data cables alone move hundreds of millions of dollars between companies.
He’s honest about the friction. Pakistan’s labour is cheap but its labour efficiency is lower than China’s; there’s no local raw-material ecosystem, so material is shipped from China or Vietnam through Hong Kong, assembled here, then exported via Dubai — “two times, three times the logistic cost.” But solutions exist, and he and Muzamil agree they shouldn’t be subsidies, which the country is now tired of paying. Adeel reaches for examples: Brazil simply required phones to be locally assembled to be sold at all, using market access as the lever. Indonesia redirected fuel subsidy toward EVs. UAE turned COVID into a creator-economy magnet by following the rules cleanly and inviting the world in. His own proposal is a small levy on the industry that funds an incentive for local components — the sector paying for its own deepening.
The geopolitical window
The conversation’s most forward-looking turn comes when Muzamil brings in something he’d heard the day before, about an auto policy and the way geopolitics quietly redraws opportunity. Doors closing on China, he argues, don’t stop China working — they reroute demand. He cites a European Union report identifying around ten industries it wants to de-risk away from China, telecom among them, and reads Pakistan’s position off the map: with the South China Sea and the Indian Ocean both hostile to China, Pakistan sits well placed to route an industry toward Central Asia, the Gulf, Iran and Turkey, and onward to Europe.
The electric-vehicle boat, he thinks, Pakistan may have missed. Phones are a quicker window — the right policy, the right partners, the right investment could carve out a counter-space fast, and that 10% target stops sounding aspirational. Adeel agrees the timing is real, and adds the precondition both guests keep returning to. The Chinese bosses, he says, want to invest; what shatters their confidence is instability. “We just need a stable environment,” he says — the talent and the potential are already proven by the factory itself.
Pakistan in 2050
Muzamil closes with the question he asks every guest, with his usual caveats: no leaning on the youth bulge, no “ifs” — extrapolate from the data in front of you. Adeel answers as an optimist who has now lived through what policy effectiveness actually feels like, and lands on self-discipline and consistency: the will exists, the stable environment is what’s missing. Ali hopes for a more welcoming, open country that finds its true identity, and predicts “one of the most creative hybrid economies in the world.” Adeel adds a closing note on China, CPEC, and agriculture, and a piece of advice that doubles as the episode’s thesis: the solutions already exist across the world. Korea took technology transfer from the US, China took it too. “We don’t have to reinvent the wheel. We just have to look at them and implement them.”
Full transcript
सामना ख़बदीना आज़ाद welcome back to the three hundred seventy sixth episode of ThoughtBandThings. Today is the 10/25/2023 and आज हमारे साथ मौजूद है दो बहुत ही ख़ास मेहमान जिनको बुलाने का मकसद यह था कि Pakistan में आपने सुना होगा जी mobile phone manufacturing हो रही है बड़े system sun ही रहे हैं but I was unable to speak to anyone who was actually part of that process and today we have the team of techno techno mobile आपको पता है Pakistan में अब तो एक household name वन चुका है I think they are in the top two with the highest share of cell phones being sold every year and we have their sales and marketing team the head of sales and head of marketing with us today आदिल ताहिर and अली रज़ा and in the conversation we largely focused on you know exactly क्या हुआ कि यह policy आई किस हद तक इस policy ने Pakistan में mobile phone manufacturing को enhance किया है आगे क्या opportunity लाई करती है particularly geopolitically speaking कि हम exports किस तरह से कर सकते हैं what are the challenges and इसी के साथ साथ for a company like techno जो कि largely unknown थी in Pakistan how were they able to grow so rapidly and what do they plan next particularly now they are getting into the high end cell phone market with a couple of very exciting launches in a couple of days जिसका उन्होंने आज preview भी हमें इस podcast में दिया है before the launch इसी के साथ साथ I mean I have personally seen those products just phenomenal cutting edge जो आपकी flagship category phones at almost 30 to 40% discounted pricing compared to other brands it's just very very exciting I've personally come to see techno in an entirely new light after this podcast and I hope I can do the same for you as well that is apart from the fact that they have been able to create a remarkable success story of made in Pakistan phones as well. आप channel पर नए है तो हमें subscribe ज़रूर करिएगा अगर आप पुराने है तो video को like ज़रूर करिएगा it really helps the algorithm अगर आपकी कोई thoughts है तो do let us know in the comment section below I read up all the comments and it really helps me improve the quality of conversation अगर आप overseas पाकिस्तानी है तो I would request you to check out the link down below we have a stripe link there you can support the channel It really helps us stay independent for as long as possible. So you can check that out as well. But, anyways, here are Adil Tahir and Ali Raza on TBT Slava studio.
अदील भाई स्लाम रिकुम कैसे हैं आप? जी बालिकुम स्लाम, अलामदुर अल्लाह आप सुनाए. अल्लाह गशुकर अच्छा primarily
you know having this conversation मेरा जो interest था ना वह यह था कि we have been hearing about Pakistan finally sort of building local manufacturing industry and to be able to understand that as well. अगर मुझे as a starter give me some context of how big techno is and what have you guys been able to achieve in the last three four years?
Techno is one of the largest smartphone players in Pakistan और we started our journey दो हज़ार सोलह में but in 2019 just before COVID we put up a factory in Pakistan. उस वक्त कोई policy नहीं थी but हमने इस opportunity को realize किया और first smartphone factory in Pakistan हमने कराची में लगाई. जिसके बाद हम government के पास गए हमने उन्हें कहा कि यार इतनी बड़ी opportunity है. It's a very big industry so we were able to, you know, get a very good policy and we are the largest smartphone factory in Pakistan in कराची. और जितना
भी सब techno available है Pakistan में, that is all 100% made in Pakistan? 100% made in Pakistan. इस वक्त है since 2020.
2019 में हमने शुरू किया था. Right. उसके बाद government ने policy दी और उसके बाद हमने 100 अपना local
production पर focus किया. So this is interesting. आपने कहा कि government ने policy आपके बाद दी. Not a lot of people know that. My understanding was कि there was a policy that came in which is why manufacturers followed. Was that not the case?
नहीं, because जब भी जब you know we were doing the CBU business जितना सारे कर रहे थे so जब भी हम government के पास जाते थे तो वह कहते थे कि यार there is no international company जिसने investment किया है, investment आएगी नहीं आएगी you know how the people work so we convinced our headquarter कि यार आप Pakistan में factory लगाए and then we will go and talk to the government. Our China से delegations आए, सारी negotiations हुई and they were able to see the potential in Pakistan. ढाई सौ million के बाद यह इतनी बड़ी market है. So हमने यह एक risk लिया जो कि अलहम्दुल अल्लाह hindsight में payoff हुआ. So once जब एक JV company के through हमने एक factory establish की और investment आई huge investment in Pakistan technology transfer, Chinese coming in so जब हमने government को यह दिखाया so उसके बाद वह policy मिली. So जब policy मिली और उसके साथ ही PTA का DUBs एक system था आपको याद होगा जो implement हुआ because of this policy जिसमें अगर आपका phone duty paid नहीं है तो वह active नहीं होगा. So tax देना पड़ा लोगों को और जब tax देना पड़ा and the policy had certain advantages so जिसकी वजह से पूरी एक industry conversion हुई. So हम proudly कह सकते हैं आज Pakistan में 31 factories हैं जिनके पास licenses हैं. Almost 94% of the phones in Pakistan are made in Pakistan. 94%?
Yes, interesting. आप लोगों ने जिस time पर right now if I were to ask you how big you are? Do you have any numbers that would?
Pakistan में averagely जो है smartphone की अगर हम बात करें तो the market size is around 1 to 1,200,000 per month. ठीक है. So हम उसमें अगर हम techno specifically बात करें तो हम around 20 four-twenty 5% market share को control करते हैं. So, I can say very safely कि we have a decent share in the smartphone.
Makes sense. And and and what about the the situation in the last year particularly there's been a lot of up and down imports ban हो गई money was not being remit out of Pakistan
तो उसमें आप लोगों का क्या सीनता were you guys still operational या दिल्ली में थोड़ा tough time आया था? नहीं last year since last July was very tough for the whole economy as well and as far also for the for हमारी industry के लिए भी हमारी जो factory operations थे because LC पहले नहीं मिल रही थी तीन महीने उसके बाद फिर एक quota system implement किया government को दिखाया कि we have more than in our factory चार हज़ार से ज़्यादा लोग हैं जो job करते हैं. So उनकी sustainability was a challenge and everything. So that was the it was a very tough time और पूरा एक साल लगा है उससे recover करने में. I think now July के बाद थोड़ी सी things have started to improve and now अलम्दिल्ला we are almost back to
where we were. Very cool. थोड़ा सा अगर मैं इसको revert back करूं all the way from the very start मुझे थोड़ा सा बताएं where were you born and early life आपने गांव में गुज़ारी. दुनिया भर में technology बहुत evolve कर चुकी है. अब आप घर बैठे एक mobile phone से पूरी दुनिया में किसी किस्म की भी different assets, stocks या even cryptocurrencies ख़रीद सकते हैं. जहां पर यह technological evolution आए वहां पर भी unfortunately हालात ऐसे हैं कि economy एक ऐसी जगह पर पहुंची हुई है कि बड़े आजकल बुरे हालात हैं, inflation बहुत ज़्यादा बढ़ रही है, savings हमारी deplete हो रही हैं. ज़्यादातर लोग investments करते ही नहीं और जो करते भी हैं वह 90% losses unfortunately बनाते हैं. इसी problem को solve कर रहा है शर्माया dot p k जो कि अपने financial trading platforms पर trainings भी offer करता है और data भी offer करता है जिससे आप पूरी दुनिया की markets ख़ासकर पाकिस्तानी markets को आसानी देख सकते हैं. अगर आप लोग अपनी investments और trading में struggle कर रहे हैं तो I would definitely urge you to check out Sharmaya Financials platform. It's a remarkable place जहां पर आपको बहुत interesting you know reports के through data भी मिलता है, investment की advice भी मिलती है और खासकर उनकी trainings जहां पर उनके experts जो है वह आपको crypto और stock market और commodities और assets के अंदर trade करके पैसे कमाना सिखाते हैं so check out the platform and check out their trainings. Now back to the podcast.
I was born in 09/1981. I belong to an a military background. My father was in the army so we always kept traveling around हां जी but मैंने अपनी graduation जो है वह नस्त से की in IT and I started my career back in 2004. अच्छा. और मेरी पहली job जो थी वह it was in mobile phones. I started my career from Samsung. अच्छा. चार से 2,008 तक मैंने Samsung में काम किया. उसके बाद you know it's all been the Chinese brands. I worked with Huawei. Huawei at that time was coming in और वह एक. I think वह mobile towers का काम ज़्यादा कर रहे थे? Huawei networks में तो था but device business उन्होंने शुरू किया in 02/1011 तो I was a part of that journey. They came into Pakistan और फिर उन्होंने बहुत grow किया, अपना नाम बनाया. Then from Huawei I moved to a local company local brand hire जिसको हमने launch किया in 2015. Right. And I had the experience of working with the largest local brand Qmobile as well. Interesting. The Hyre में were you working exclusively on cell phones or across all the? The Hyre तो primarily consumer electronics brand है but उसने अपनी एक mobile phone division launch की थी तो I was I was a part of it. Right. And then with Q mobile and in 2018 I joined Techno's journey and I can say this has been very exciting because मैंने जब शुरू किया तो खैर हर brand जब मैंने Samsung join किया तो Samsung very small at that time Nokia था, Sony Ericsson था, LG था वह सब बड़े brands थे और Samsung को कोई नहीं जानता तो you know we had to go to door to door और जाकर हमने सारा जो है वह उसको उसको उस Samsung was the underdog कि Samsung जाए यार यह तो you know European brands are where is at. So same with Huawei जब शुरू किया लोग उसका नाम ही नहीं सही लेता था. कोई हवाई कहता था, कोई हवाई कहता था. So you know that journey. So हमेशा से मेरा somehow career path इस तरीके से रहा है कि to start with a company जो कि बिल्कुल अभी in a starting phase और फिर उसको लेकर चले और develop करें. Scale करें. Yeah. What happened with Q mobile? It was everywhere once upon a time and suddenly unfortunately. Yeah, it was a it was a big company and you know having more than 6070% market share but unfortunately उनके कुछ government के साथ challenges आ गए for taxation and all that so
I don't know it was more of a financial thing and अच्छा nothing to do with devices per se क्योंकि एक time था everybody like जो three g, four g का जो basically critical mass वाला moment आया था they were perfectly timed to be there and just take the entire market. So Q mobile was a phenomena और कभी कभी मुझे इसमें बड़ा उसको सोचकर
nostalgic या थोड़ा सा I feel sad as well because it was the पाकिस्तानी company जो कि more than you know 60% share को control कर रही थी और dominate कर रही थी. तो मैं हमेशा सोचता हूं कि यार कोई पाकिस्तानी company global brand क्यों नहीं बनी? If you see all these Chinese brands या international brands एक मुल्क से एक जगह से शुरू होते हैं and then they start you know growing. So I think Q mobile had that potential और उन्होंने दो हज़ार दस या ग्यारह से लेकर दो हज़ार seventeen eighteen तक तमाम brands को बड़ा tough time दिया but you know it is how it is. Yeah and so techno 2018
were they like how did that happen? Yeah it was very interesting because. क्योंकि I mean you are at Q mobile and you have this sort of legacy legacy legacy Samsung Huawei all these sort of very very well established global brands. Techno in that time was fairly new. Right so what was the thought process while making that switch? So चुम्वल was going through a tough time and you know
I there was a Chinese who was previously in Huawei तो वह techno में था through some common connections he got to me he said कि यार this is a chance. उसने थोड़ा सा brand introduction दिया, vision दिया और उसने कहा गया I would love कि आप हमारे साथ आए और इस journey को start करें. So I took almost three months to take that decision. It was not an Yeah, but I'm glad I took it और बस वहां से journey start हुई because techno का अगर मैं आपको बात बताऊं तो it's a local it's a company की जो philosophy है they call themselves a local company. Ok. This is a part of their reason for their success as well. तो they emphasize और बहुत ज़्यादा यह rely करते हैं local लोगों पर, local opinions को बहुत value करते which is आजकल के ज़माने में अगर आप multinationals में देखें तो it's not that somehow common specially in the Chinese companies. This is this was an opportunity which I thought के is interesting and exciting and अलाहमदूल्लाह
फिर the journey has been exciting so far. How are you able to I mean what's the I will be very honest techno came out of nowhere. Mean it was. कोई अगर site पर देख रहा होता है ना तो they would really scratch their head कि ये हुआ कैसे? Was it the price point? Was it? What was it? क्योंकि Pakistan में एक top one-two percent का Pakistan है उनको शायद अभी भी नहीं पता होगा कि टकोनों को बहुत नज़र आता कि वो buildings पर चल रहे होते तो banners नज़र आते उनको but when you really get out of your bubble and you begin to interact the ordinary पाकिस्तानी तो आपको नज़र आता है कि उनके हाथ में every person has either a techno or a couple of these other similar category brands and they've just taken the entire market वो सोचते भी नहीं maximum उनको ये होगा कि अगर मेरे पास भी कोई people who are working for me mostly they'd be having either a techno maximum उनका ये होगा कि यार मैं iPhone six-seven कोई पुराना ले लें right so so एक upgrade नज़र आता towards iPhone other than that it's just the same and that because I haven't seen a lot of marketing from you guys it's been fairly organic what do you think was the secret sauce there? I think कि
philosophy is very important कि यार know yourself. मैं अगर आपको techno का थोड़ा सा introduction दूं तो हम 70 plus countries में हैं globally and this year our group is one of the top five international manufacturers international exporters or manufacturers in the world और यह सब achieve हुआ है without having presence in The US, even China or Europe. So as a brand हमें अपनी philosophy और target market बड़ी clear थी कि यार affordable smartphones. जब आप affordable smartphones लेकर जाते हैं तो you will not go to the developed countries, you would go to the developing countries जहां पर जो masses हैं वह एक उनकी income challenges हैं, उनकी other challenges and you give them a quality device because किसी भी brand को successful होने के लिए quality is very very important. कि एक बंदा imagine आप एक गाड़ी लेते हैं जाकर और आप बाहर जब निकलते हैं because जो एक example दे रहा हूं just to court तो अगर उसमें कोई issue आता है तो हमारा दिल्ली बैठ जाएगी. आपने पैसे जमा करके एक बड़ी महंगी सी गाड़ी खरीदी और फिर आपको मज़ा नहीं आया तो आप consumer के mobile phone user के you know foot में जाकर अगर आप देखें shoes में तो what you will realize कि यार उसके लिए अगर वह एक phone लेता है तो उसने उसके लिए पांच छह महीने saving की हुई है. So for him to have the value for that money is very very important. So I think this is the point that we targeted. So as a company we are a number one brand. Techno is the number one brand in Africa. We are present in South America. हम subcontinent पूरे में present हैं. We are doing very well in the neighboring countries. हम Russia में बहुत अच्छा काम कर रहे हैं. So all these जगहों पर तो यह philosophy को ज़ाहिर करता है कि हम bottom up कोई भी international brand है वह America आता है, फिर Europe आता है, Australia आता है, Middle East आता है, फिर हमारी बारी आती है. तो हम लोगों ने जो है वह एक reverse philosophy के through किया which proved well for our company. So it is a brand for the masses affordable smartphones in with premium quality. I
I I जब वह कहते ना कि it's a brand for the masses तो thought यह आती है कि ok it's just stuck with sort of low value not very like the the अगर मैं technology की बात करूं तो it is not comparable to some of the most cutting edge work that's happening in the world but I do see there is a techno phone there and that's a flip one that a lot of people लिए तो it's a full one right? So it's it's something जो कि अभी जो early adopter है वो भी अभी देख रहा है वो अभी भी यानी कि उसके पास इस वक्त आया नहीं है Apple hasn't launched one people are still waiting for that to happen but that's a techno one can you show that to me? Yeah To Pakistan. This will be launched. अच्छा, fascinating. And this is like there's a screen here, then there is a proper body screen. Ford Yes.
So it's like a proper tablet as well and it's a phone as well. Is this like a stand of dots? Yes. This is the cover that comes with the box.
Tablet by the way like it's almost like a mini tablet six six inch वन जाता है यह कितना है? Above six inches.
I think seven inches. Yes. Seven inches है. जब आप इसको open करके अच्छा fab.
ज़बरदस्त. So this is launching in Pakistan. Will this be assembled in Pakistan as well?
This we are because आप यह देखेंगे कि यह this is a very high end device तो इसकी technology की अभी R and D चल रही है. Right. So once it's launch initially तो कुछ units जो है वह CPU आते हैं. Eventually जैसे गाड़ियों का होता है but eventually we plan case की भी machinery और जो है it's in process so interesting.
अली मुझे एक बात बताएं I think one of the things that's really happened with cell phones is there's been this rise of both the creator economy and the gaming economy you know if one would call it. उसकी देखने का तरीका probably यह है कि Pakistan में अब एक तो creators are now going all over the world and they are competing with with you know global creators as well. साथ gaming में भी हम देख रहे हैं कि you know मेरा सलाह नैश वो Tekken में हो या PUBG के Pakistan के tournaments हो रहे हैं पूरी दुनिया में जा रहे हैं Free Fire and G Arena and all these games. I I feel like के really the critical mass happened पहले हम constantly कोशिश कर रहे थे internet बेचने को लेकिन जो masses आई है ना और जो मैंने देखा है वो masses आई है सही games के ऊपर internet backed by the internet but definitely games took the forefront how much of that do you think impacted techno क्योंकि मैं देखता हूं even ads में marketing में भी जो है ना वो ज़्यादा दीद कार्जिन जी वो ये नहीं बता रहे कि processor कौन सा लगा है वो ये कह रहे PUBG बेहतरीन चलेगा. Right so how was that aspect in terms of do you think the success of the mainstream mass market cell phone brand like like techno?
I think a lot gaming is on the rise और मेरा ख्याल है कि everyone knows this as a fact कि mobile gaming is specially very much a thing in Pakistan. यहां पर वैसे ही generally consoles कम है और every a layman ordinary person वह PUBG free fire खेलता है, वह लोगों के साथ खेलता है and then जैसे पहले back in the days वह होता था ना group call अब वह एक lobby बनती है lobby में चार boys बैठते हैं वह game खेलते हैं और उनको पता है कि कौन सी game खेलनी है तो वह पूरा एक ecosystem gaming का बना है जिसके अंदर mobile plays the most pivotal part. Right. And that being said techno के लिए we have a very specific gaming phone series हमारा पवा series is a gaming series phone और वैसे भी the Kmon series or the Phantom series are very well equipped phones जिसके अंदर आप gaming अपना session like you can have a very good time and you can play the most advanced gaming available apps available तो मतलब I think that plays a very important part. I know so many people who take game making to consideration when buying a phone. Yeah. तो that is a very important part and then. What about the creators because yeah again
we have we have seen you know secondary players जैसा again Q mobile के example ले लेते हैं right so they came in and they said like we will compromise on certain things. यह थोड़ा लोग quality कर दो या पांच साल technology डाल दो यह थोड़ी इस तरह कर दो और margin call में price point कम करेंगे और हम market में फ़ेंक देंगे. नुकसान उसका यह होता है कि आपने smartphone तो consumer को दे दिया but consumer को actually उसका कोई फ़ायदा नहीं हुआ because वह सामने देखने के लिए तो ठीक है but long term के अंदर वो फसना शुरू हो जाता है और उसमें particularly cameras were a big thing right like one of the reasons why people would go to let say the iPhones of the world or Samsung of the world was कि you know stellar I mean iPhone तो अभी fourteen fifteen है and the biggest upgrade is the camera that's where it sort of seems like a plateau industry right but with more budget options cameras were never a big focus but TikTok changed that You know every person with a cell phone now is a creator. Don't need a DSLR, you don't need a red cinema camera. Plus I think creativity का scope बढ़ गया एकदम. I feel like like after that internet is the equalizer for humanity
और उससे फ़ायदा ही होता है कि anyone can take inspiration from anywhere. And then they look around and see options that interest them. तो you can't stop anyone from looking अच्छा तुम इस creator को इधर ना देखो या इस region का creator ना देखो. They take inspiration from wherever they get it. Right. Which gives a huge impact in how that mobile phone that they have, वह उसको किस तरह use कर रहे हैं? और हमारे यहां पर भी मतलब TikTok is huge बहुत ज़्यादा part play करता है then there is Instagram reels and there are so many digital channels जो are being utilized by our consumers and camera is such an important part क्योंकि the whole point of showing themselves and connecting to the audience of similar taste is the reason they ventured out and wanted to you know talk about or look about things. तो वह I think camera the platforms, gaming हर बंदी को the availability to find their own niche is very important और this device just help them to identify themselves मेरा ख्याल है self expression बढ़ गया. आप आप comment भी लिख सकते हो. You don't like the thing, you like it. You write it there. Right. मुझे नहीं पसाना. Like I see comments और वो वेस्ती करते हैं लोग proper. I can't stop them. I can have a community engagement guy भाई इसको filter out कर लो लेकिन you can't stop people and if you have a very good thing they appreciate you. और कुछ लोगों को that has helped them find themselves sometimes internet brings you down but it's part of the thing that I think you either whatever you're doing you go through that curve some things people like it और उधर ही आपको बता देंगे और वह कुछ कहेंगे नहीं है और उसके अंदर how you yourself identify yourself
और आप अपने आप को किस तरह लोगों को दिखाते हैं. Position करते हैं. करते हैं. अधीर wife I would ask you similar question I am trying to understand look what I am seeing is there a certain category बल्कि in fact मैं इसको इस time play करता हूँ एक ज़मान आता था when we were growing up and I was a fairly techy guy so people would एक तो आपको एक clear sense नहीं मिलती of what performs better or worse but more importantly जब हम बात करते ना budget phones can probably budget phones I don't know the exact number you can share कि आप लोगों ने segment किया था but my understanding is anything less than let's say 60,000 rupees वो budget पर आ जाता है. उसके अंदर for a layman the thought is कि यार actually इसमें ना पांच आठ दस generations पुरानी चीज़ लगी हुई है और redundant चीज़ है which is why it is so cheap comparably अगर मैं budget high end brands की करूंगा तो मेरे दिमाग में एक recall ही होगी कि नहीं यार पता नहीं लिखी तो same है लेकिन पता नहीं कुछ अच्छा लगा था इसके अंदर so tell me about the technology, the actual technology and first of all and second of all why is there a price discrepancy there?
I think that's a very good question. एक चीज़ इसको जो मैं इसमें answer करना चाहूंगा वह यह है कि consumer जो है हमारा वह बहुत smart हो गया है. ठीक है? अब जो आप किसी I'll give you an example मेरे घर में जो लड़का है उसको मैं because different companies में गया तो मैं अपनी तो मैंने कहा कि यार यह भी China है. तो he said कि नहीं सिर्फ वह फ़र्क China है, यह फ़र्क China है. Right. So this is a very simple example लेकिन यह बड़ी deep example है और मेरे लिए यह you know stuck to me. So example is कि आज का consumer बहुत ज़्यादा aware है. आप उसको know कोई भी low quality चीज़ लगाकर आप उसको नहीं बेच सकते. एक दफा बेच सकते हैं, दो दफा नहीं बेच सकते. This is the first thing. The second thing is जो example मैं सबको देता हूं कि यार आपने एक है premium category पांच लाख का phone है, छह लाख का phone है वह जिसने लेना है उसने लेना ही लेना है. But अगर आपने किसी भी brand का एक डेढ़ लाख का, दो लाख का, ढाई लाख का phone लेना है उससे बेहतर the same technology exists. Hardware भी same है, you know technology भी same है, ऊपर body, aluminum, steel जो चीज़ें लगी हुई है cameras वो Sony के हैं या Leica के हैं वो भी same है, sensors हैं तो ये सब basically different parts हैं, different components हैं जो दुनिया में different जगहों पर मिल रहे हैं और वह आकर एक phone के अंदर आकर शामिल होते हैं and that is then you know वह आपकी एक device बनाता है. So मैं हर किसी को यही कहता हूं कि यार अगर आपने दो लाख के आस पास का phone लेना है तो you are better off buying not our brand और similar brands आप ले लें और उस phone को आप खुला डुल्ला use करें, enjoy करें and you know after year to year you change it. So technologically जो है वह hardware perspective से कोई majority difference नहीं है. वही processor है, वही memories है, similar cameras है so you know it's more or less the same. तो price point क्यों different है? Price point देखें एक हर brand होता है, हर brand की एक अपनी brand value होती है. आप एक shirt दो हज़ार रुपए की भी लेते हैं और उस पर अगर कुछ brand का नाम लिखा हो तो बीस हज़ार रुपए की भी लेते हैं. So it's more or less आज की दुनिया में it's just the brand value जो कि एक difference create कर रही है. Usability के हिसाब से, technology के हिसाब से major difference. Plus, building
on top what you said, 100% agreed, consumer knows himself too good now. पता है कि उसको क्या चाहिए और हमारी एक अंदर एक जागन है KSP, key selling point. मैं एक जितना मर्ज़ी key selling point भेजता हूं. अगर वह आपको click नहीं करता है, you don't want it or need it. Want and need दोनों आती हैं इसमें. My marketing is useless. So I have to find the consumer pain point. अच्छा this guy is a chef for example, वह खाना बनाता है, पूरा दिन वह बना रहा है और चीज़ें रहा है. वह phone नहीं रख सकता जो water resistant नहीं है या उसको गंदे हाथ से पकड़ ले और वह ठीक रहे smudges ना आए. उसको camera नहीं चाहिए. उसको चाहिए usability, durability. Right. अब for him a budget phone is something because you started off with how you differentiate price points and categories or you obviously we build personas और सारा कुछ. That is very important के who needs and who wants what. So somebody who wants a camera will go find a budget phone or a premium phone because he wants a good camera. अब camera के अंदर भी आ जाएं for example since our K-Mount series is very good for photography. अब कुछ लोग कहेंगे कि नहीं हमें video camera चाहिए. वह एक different ball game है. The portrait camera is different ball game. Then we started off with TikTok and all those digital channels. उनके अंदर we need those AI automations and filters and वह कौन अच्छा लगा सकता है? अब अब बात हमें category phone की बात कर रहे हैं but there is these different channels जिसके अंदर consumer pain points क्या है? Right. So we need to identify.
Adding on to you you mentioned you know portrait and stuff like that we are now beginning to see beyond hardware as well right कि ठीक है hardware complements that अगर camera की बात है तो अब यह हो गया कि it's not necessarily just the lens that's being used or the sensor that's being used. वो AI neural engine वाला processor किसका अच्छा है कि वो real time के अंदर आपकी pictures को enhance कर दे. Run me through the software Ok, how important is that in this entire sort of ecosystem? I do know for a fact कि Oppur sells a lot of their software कि वह बार बार यह कहते कि जी हमारा जो भक्तश भी खेलें तो उसके बाद हम उसको process ऐसे ज़बरदस्त तरीके से कर देते हैं. My understanding is you are running your entire ecosystem on Android but is this like a tailored version of Android that's proprietary to techno and HiOS is our proprietary
Android system. उसके ऊपर we for camera specifically. Since आपने जैसे कहा अब it's not the sensor game, it's the computational algorithmic processing जो आप बनाओगे. Hardware
जब सारा same है so game comes to the software part. Software right. So we have our own OS जिसको which is a layer on top of Android obviously base layer तो सारी की सारी Android ही होती है. So its high OS जिसके अंदर सारा सारी जो optimizations और patents we have हां 100%. RGBW camera is the sensor that we use.
अब उसके अंदर we have this huge layer of computing that does the imaging. Right. और how it does like the how it uses the white light is something that is patent to us. Right. तब इस तरह की चीज़ें it comes down to how optimize your software is, how locally optimized your software is because हमारे यहां पर night photography is a very big thing. इधर मैं एक point add करना चाहूंगा so techno is the number one brand in Africa. Right.
They started early over there तो वह number one कैसे बने? Through their camera और वह कैसे बने कि obviously in Africa जो skin color है वह dark skin है so if a group of people is having a group photo तो वह differentiation करना मुश्किल होता था you know I mean Just over five seven hundred के so techno ने software में अपने optimization की ताकि उन लोगों के skin color के हिसाब से dark skin tone को आप differentiate कर सकें. So that was something very interesting जिसकी वजह से Africa के अंदर techno you know grew like anything और एक popularity आई और आज पूरे जो Africa है उसके अंदर techno itself is the number one brand. Right मुझे एक बात यह बताएं
and I was speaking to dolans recently and obviously there are consumer electronics business sort of similar but different categories. Pakistan में when we are trying to sell anything तो हम हमेशा product की बात करते हैं कौन सी product अच्छी है बुरी है whatever. Modern day में products को differentiate करना fairly difficult होना शुरू हो गया है because it's it's with globalization it's fairly easy कि आप जो भी निकालें मैं उसको दो तीन महीने में reverse engineer करके निकाल. What really differentiates a brand long term is is the is the relationship that that brand builds with that consumer right and and a large part of that is more often than not the after sales service the fact के मतलब एक product ली है मैंने जो अली mention के durability कितनी ज़्यादा है अगर एक product ली है बहुत अच्छी चल रही है बहुत speed में है लेकिन अगर वो तीन महीने बाद जाकर टूट जाती ना तो आपको यार क्या मज़ा नहीं आया और फिर maybe next time you will flip. Exactly. But अगर वह टूट जाती है तो उसके बाद दूसरा यह भी एक element होता है काफ़ी दफा आपको again Dolan's is an excellent example for that कि उनका भी यही था कि they were comparatively new local, new तो नहीं but local so they are always competing with the global giants but the way that they really differentiated was the warranty, the customer service problem होती है जी एक call मिलाई आपने वह एक the standardization of processes right and that's why I think where they sort of hire did the same thing by and large cell phone category के अंदर people have come जाहिर जो मैं मेरा iPhone खराब होता तो मैं तो दुकान पर जाऊंगा standard right? जब मैं दुकान पर जाऊंगा ना मेरा मसला यह होगा कि मैं सर को जाता रह जाऊंगा कि यार यह अभी इसको खोलेगा ना तो पता नहीं यह चार नए मसले ना निकाले अब होता ही है my driver came to me and this has happened three four times budget phones में generally ये मसला होता है and these people really use in सुकून से ना तो वो जो है कभी उसका वो C type jack खराब हो जाए and from की जो ख्वारी थी चीज़ fix हो गई but जो चार दिन का excruciating pain था ना of going there figuring it out and a thought popped to my head कि यार we are in a telecom space and I don't know maybe it already exists it not be कि यह call करता मेरे phone से call कर लेता कि यार मेरा phone खराब हो गया हुआ है. Warranty or no warranty you are the brand that designed it. Can I drop it somewhere? You run it through the process and tell me कि यार इसमें ये मसला था इसकी ये cost थी हमने आपको चालू करके वापस भेजी थी and so customer service I feel like we haven't spoken about a lot warranties, customer service post after sales service. How is that with techno and
is there like पहले तुम्हें बताएं how is that? What's the user experience once the cell phone is sold? I think कोई भी brand जो है वह Pakistan में exist ही नहीं कर सकता. Survive के अलावा मैं और ज़्यादा word use करूंगा exist ही नहीं कर सकता अगर उसकी comprehensive after sales service ना हो because हमारा जो user है वह बहुत ज़्यादा hard है, weather ऐसा है, conditions है, कोई cycle पर बैठा हुआ है, गिर गया, you know all those things जैसे आपने driver की example दी and all those things. So यह एक prerequisite है to have an extensive service network even PTA की तरफ से. So हमारा पूरे Pakistan में एक बड़ा extensive after sales का service network है. अगर आपको techno का कोई भी phone में कोई भी problem आता even आपके mobile के अंदर app है जिसके अंदर helpline numbers और वह सारे addresses in your city in your cities मौजूद हैं, ठीक है? And you go there, you just like you said कि आप उसको अपना phone submit करें. उसकी में different depending upon the problem कि यार कोई software problem है तो immediately within the hour आपको दे देंगे. Amazing service centers we have air conditioned everything so you can just sit there. And these are your own service center? Yeah, your own. No, no, they are our own service centers operated by the company. कितने शहरों में है यह? मुझे exact number तो याद नहीं but in all the major cities. अच्छा. I think in more than 15 cities we have. Plus we do offer 12 plus one warranty.
Ok, what does that mean? The thirteenth month warranty. So it's an added feature. कि हमने देखा कि यार local market people as you said trust factor plays a huge part. Right. तो even one month counts और additional this is वही ना आप कितना
customer के लिए कुछ कर सकते हो. And this is activation warranty. Yeah, जिस दिन warranty का मतलब यह है कि जब आपका phone आता है on होता है you insert the sim तो उसकी एक activation date lock हो जाती है phone के software में. तो जब भी आप हमारे service center में लेकर जाएंगे तो उस activation date से आपकी तेरह महीने की warranty है. Right. Plus I think we started off this
particular talk about trust. तो this is what I say is phone is not just a tool ना वह आपका companion है. Extension of yourself है. कुछ चीज़ें मुझे याद में नहीं है. Like इतने major number नहीं आए, चीज़ें नहीं आए. My phone is doing it for me. Battery जब कम हो रही होती I have the same emotional reaction of a कि oh shit मुझे अभी लगाना है charging लगाओ तो this thing then needs to be what you said कि the company needs to make sure that the whole user experience is there. Not just me getting it to the buying वाला part कि यार ले लो मेरा डब्बा खोलकर तुम्हें होशी हो जाए. वह खुलते साथ वह गिर भी सकता और जैसे ही गिरेगा screen टूट जाएगी या कुछ हो जाएगा. दो देखें for every brand and every device robust being robust और मज़बूत होना durable होना is a
thing that we strive. Of course but I mean we are in the physical world exactly.
Force में जो चीज़ें हो जाती है पानी गिर गया यह हो गया तो yes we take this very seriously and I think for anyone to grow specially in this region
and one of the reasons के कुछ brands नहीं कर पाएंगे because there is a trust factor deficit always. And अगर मैं कहता कि for example 13 plus 12 plus one खत्म हो जाता है उसके बाद तो मेरा warranty तो नहीं है लेकिन मैं पैसे देता हूं मेरा काम हो जाता है. नहीं वह parts में parts available है because phones
सारे Pakistan में वन रहे हैं तो complete
parts availability is there. कितने से तक की parts availability होती है? क्योंकि I know that phones are rapidly switching right so मैं आज लेता हूं मैं अगर तीन या चार साल बाद जाऊंगा तो parts का available होगा या वह phase out हो चुका होगा? इतना तो मुझे exact तो नहीं पता but minimum two years plus two two हैं. अच्छा. पड़े Plus series for
example आप. होता क्या है कि देखिए क्या होता है कि आपके पास एक जो है वह तो B type, C type common होते हैं तो वह that is not an issue as well. So majorly यही issue होता है और आपने एक certain inventory hold की होती है तो दो तीन चार साल बाद भी अगर दें और नहीं भी हो तो फिर इसका एक backup China में भी होता है. So अगर हम खुद मतलब let's say दो या दो साल या तीन साल गुज़र गए उसके बाद भी किसी को repair कराना है तो वह से आप मंगवाकर दे सकते हैं. Makes sense. Ecosystem पूरा exist करता है. Since इतने ज़्यादा use Since इतने
कर रहे हैं phones so there is always a you know way out कि अच्छा you get parts and then obviously we have people here who can help you. And in terms of the launches is Techno launching the the latest and greatest in Pakistan or is that lagging behind? We are on par with the global launches. अभी we will be launching the Phantom V series which is the foldable category. That one. This is the fold and then we have a flip series as well. Ok. So both have patent technologies and globally release हो रहे हैं और उसी time पर Pakistan में भी release हो रहे हैं. अच्छा अच्छा. तो first time in Pakistan there is an option. कब आ रही है? October 27 pre order starts and November 3 it's available for all. Do we have a pricing yet? आप कह सकते हैं. Very competitive prices. Very competitive. People will like it. This is the reason which is that brings it back to the same core idea के staying true to your core vision which is being affordable for everyone
and then giving new technology. Flip वाला my understanding is going to be similar like this लेकिन वह पतला होकर छोटा सा हो जाएगा. Yes. Now I am excited a little bit. That is a flip. उसके लिए estimated price time price point होते कितने तक का होगा?
Very competitive. पता है इस price range में और इस category में there is only one player and will be providing a very good price point. आप कह लें के
around 200,000?
Right. More or less. And that has like the most cutting edge hardware that's available in The the foldable itself is very cutting edge. Of course. The screen itself, the
hinge यह बड़ा important part play करता है क्योंकि सबको मिलता है. Durability plus आप viewing angle पर जब आप देखते हो इसको खुल के. You know? जब आप यह देखें तो यह view के अंदर आपको कोई plane ही नज़र आएगा you know. So this is basically the patent technology जिस पर हमने call Aerospace grid hinder यह and this is something that we think people will the the look and feel needs to be like that. वह मतलब आपको यह अगर आप device यह ले रहे हो, foldable ले रहे हो, आपको यह
feel और look and the whole experience needs to be मतलब it's phenomenal right? Like it's the it's the the क्या कहलाता है जो आपने look and feel की बात की the quality of material is just phenomenal like this is and I am sorry to be saying this but this doesn't look like techno but that's that's the thing right like you're this is now your next big thing.
यह kickstand है?
नहीं this it says 50 m is that like a 50 megapixel camera connector? Yes
yes please. अच्छा by the way you can use the the feature which is camcorder feature आप पूरा खोल लो और जिसकी आप video बना रहे हो वह भी शुरू हो जाएगा. So the person you are making the video can see कि आप क्या video बना हो. So अगर मैं for example यह AI cam by the way यार that's a good camera what the hell.
अच्छा so I where do I go? Second year at the video. Yeah I am just running मेरा camera खुला है अभी. यह video आ गया? Video आ गया review mode on. ठीक है so अभी इस वक़्त let's assume मैं यूं करके बना रहा हूं ठीक है And then इस पर मैं आपको एक second.
Yeah, I can see myself. Yes, now you can see.
अगर मैं for example मैं कहता हूं यार मैंने ना selfie मोड़े करने के लिए. जी. बारे में कुछ खपती ना फ़ज़रत कैसे हैं आप लोग? तो आपको नज़र आ रहा actually you guys can see as well कि this is me making a video of oops this is me making a video of you guys. Yeah. And you can see it as well. Guys this is phenomenal by the way and this is launching on the third of november so that means people can have it in their pockets on the third. They can preorder twenty seventh. Preorder on October 27. ज़बरदस्त. मुझे ये बताएं कि and this is a conversation this is a sort of an extension of the conversation because my understanding is कि you own the software, you own the hardware. Pakistan में एक चीज़ जो consumer electronics में particularly रही है वह यह रही है कि credit का निज़ाम नहीं exist किया which basically means कि दुनिया भर में banks और other institutions are able to identify कि यार यह consumer जो है ना he is good for his money and so if he is saving up for to buy something ten months from now maybe we can give him right now and ask him to you know pay an installment. Absolutely. Pakistan में banks never did that. They were more interested in lending to the government. That's fine. Then the fintechs came in and उसमें वह consumer AC और इस तरह की चीज़ें तो वह आपके घर चले गए neighbor से कर लिया. Phones का यह होता है कि you never really know कि आपने किसी को दे तो दिया but वह उसके बाद जो है ना वह बेच दिया आगे पीछे दो minute में वह हो गया. And so the problem statement existed where these fintechs would never truly know कि यार who's good for the for the phone money and and who's not. For someone who owns the ecosystem of let's say the software as well so when your phone goes to a consumer your relationship doesn't end with sale you're continuously dealing with that consumer and so my understanding is you should have better data available through that profiling कि मेरा मेरा एक Google account है जो कि मेरे high OS के ऊपर लगा हुआ है और वो usage जो है उसके basis के ऊपर I can begin to identify कि this person is an active smart cell phone user अगर वो आते हैं तो वो कहते हैं कि यार बारह महीने गुज़र गए मुझे upgrade चाहिए right? Why do you think manufacturers never got into it particularly आप चिह्सा क्योंकि you have a footprint in Pakistan so you can't I can't say कि यार Apple would do it, Apple तो exist ही नहीं करता यहां पर, right? Distributor would never get into it but a manufacturer who is completely vertically integrated, you think there is a potential opportunity for you know credit profiling the consumer and then distributing क्योंकि 50% पर हमें 50% still अभी जो है ना वह same feature phone पर बैठी हुई है exactly what are your thoughts on that
I think very interesting आपने point highlight किया but if you think कि इसके अंदर बहुत ज़्यादा I don't know कि government if you are going into financing तो फिर different licenses, different regulations वह आ जाती है but from the software part in Africa में यह हमने ज़रूर किया है कि जहां पर यह allowed है so we have a we have an option in our software जिसमें हम अगर for example if we partner with the with the with the bank or a financing company or even we begin to finance you need a local local partner or a bank or someone who is doing the financing or I think you have to have those licenses to you know do this kind of a business. Absolutely
what I mean by that is I am not necessarily saying you become a banker. That is changing the focus altogether. What I mean by that is your goal is to have the maximum amount of people using your phone. That is a basic north star. Now जब मैं उसको analyze करता तो मेरे लिए एक finance का problem आता है कि you know what like 50% of the consumer I am playing in that space. Then there is 50% is 50% में से 10% ऐसा है जो कि आज तो नहीं खरीद सकता. But एक साल बाद खरीद सकते हैं अगर वह save करें. लेकिन अगर वह save कर रहा होगा तो वह पैसे इधर उधर उड़ा देगा. Exactly. If I can begin to identify कि वह जो 50% है जो इस feature पर बैठी हुई है उसको मैं अगर phone दे दूं और वो मुझे बारह महीने वाक्ता ही पैसे देता रहेगा उसके Right? Just this aspect of learning is very valuable because I don't do it myself. What I do is I take this learning. I partner with someone else. I say कि ok. My website or my outlet has this option. You can walk in. You can get your profile link. Google account बताएं या यह बताएं. उससे हम आपका extract करके हमारा partner आपको financing provide करेगा. Right? So you are the you are the player because of the access to data you are the player who can provide the credit profile the partner executes it because the partner is also looking to lend except they are looking for कि हम trusted बंदे को lend करें so the credit score becomes supreme as where you come in
and the operations then can be partnered with someone who has license. लेकिन जो data collection है of the user profiling मेरा नहीं ख्याल कि आप वह कर सकते हैं. वह तो I think is with Google or even I think from user rights perspective allowed I think it's not allowed. ठीक है? तो कोई भी company यहां से data fetch करके you cannot send it out. इस phone किसी भी phone के अंदर कोई ऐसी नहीं होती है. I think इस तरह का data जो है वह हमारे operators के पास होता है. Yes. क्योंकि once जब हमारे Pakistan में phone आते हैं, वह register होते हैं network पर वह IMAI तमाम operators के पास white listed tax paid जो IMAI हैं वह सबके पास जाते हैं तो हमारे operators के पास यह data होता है कि यार Jazz, Telenor, all those कि यार यह कितने phone active हैं मेरे network पर और उनकी क्या usage है और क्या है? Once we sell the phone हमें यह पता चल जाता है कि यार जब वह network पर उसमें sim डलती है, जब वह Google पर sign in करता है तो through Google हमें यह ज़रूर पता चल जाता है कि यार यह phone active हो गया है but उससे आगे की profiling is either with Google or is with the operator. Right, जो paymers वगैरह जितनी phone बने हो Google के through हो रही है. Google के through हो Right, what you mentioned is BNPL
which is buy now pay later method जो पूरी दुनिया में इस time एक trend है plus obviously जिस तरह economic conditions हुए में everyone nobody wants to invest एकदम पूरे पैसे एक चीज़ पर तो and this is part of our brand build up where we are collaborating in the future in these domains जिसके अंदर for brand loyalty part क्योंकि जब आप कहते हो ना एक बंदा जो बारह महीने किस्से देगा वह बारह महीने किसी चीज़ के लिए किस्ते देगा जिसको वह invested है. Right. और जब वह किस्ते दे देगा वह at least खुश होना चाहिए और अगर उसने complete करके खुश हुआ है तो वह शायद upgrade भी करेगा और जब वह upgrade करेगा we'll have a chance to be again a player क्योंकि उसने हमारे साथ इतना time गुज़ार लिया अब इस पूरे ecosystem है this is I think more of an ecosystem question this is not just us providing the service however there are other players that will be pairing with us आपके telcos play important part they know exactly where the phone is being used, how it being used. Then the financial services part where they know if you are credible or not. ठीक है, we can tell you this guy can either buy from us or we can sell it to the collaborating partners but then those players
we all need to sit together and have a collaborative effort in which this method which is globally used वह हम Pakistan में लिख रहे हैं. हमारा market trend भी इस तरह का नहीं है. आप इसकी वजह से यह देखें कि दुनिया में दो तरह की markets होती हैं. एक operator based और एक open market जिसको हम पूरी दुनिया में क्या होता है आप अपने operator से phone लेते हैं, contract करते हैं, बारह महीने अपने bill में कटवाते रहते हैं. साल, दो साल के बाद आप दोबारा अपना phone change कर लेते हैं and you know you just scrap your old phone or give it to someone and everything. हमारी वह थोड़ी frankly लिए जो जितनी भी market है design ही इस तरीके से हुई है. I think it has to do with the consumer mindset. सबसे पहले लोग I don't मतलब this is something जो कि मेरा बीस साल का almost experience हो गया in the telecom industry. आज तक मैं यही सोचता हूं कि यार operators यह चीज़ क्यों नहीं crack कर सकते हां मतलब postpaid पर भी नहीं गए ना लोकत. Postpaid पर भी नहीं तो postpaid पर जाएगी. But even you know think of iPhone और those top phones आप अगर उनको देखेंगे यार वही through operator बिक रहे हो तो उनका भी बड़ा एक insignificant सा number है which is very very surprising because आप अपना bill दे रहे पांच हज़ार, आप पंद्रह हज़ार या पच्चीस भी दे सकते हैं but I don't know कि यह चीज़ यह एक बड़ी untapped market है. अच्छा जो हमारी पूरी industry develop हुई हुई है in terms of retail वह भी बड़ी इस चीज़ में open market जिसको हम कहते हैं वह बड़ी smart है. तो अब जब consumer अगर let's say एक operator based phone ले भी लेता है तो वह ठीक कराने अगर बाज़ार में जाता है वह कहीं भी जाता है तो उसको बड़ा एक reaction आता है तो it's it's वह लोगों के दिमाग में यह program हुआ हुआ है कि यार
you know operator से phone somehow it's very challenging. मुझे यह बताएं आपने बड़ा अच्छा point उठाया what's the sales channel here? Historically yes we saw that there was a distributor network I believe पुराने वक्त में Airtel होता था या Airtel communication.
Mobile zone. Mobile zone ये सारे होते United, United, United. हां और वो. So वो अभी भी exist करते हैं we have a very good team of distributors specially if we talk about techno. They are very good companies जो कि Pakistan में पिछले दस, पंद्रह, बीस सालों से operate कर रही हैं और since जब कुछ ऐसे भी लोग हैं Advance Telecomers One जो कि जब पहला वह बड़े वाले phones आए थे Ericsson or whatever तो वह तब से you know they are into the mobile phone business. So वह हमारे सारे के सारे local partners हैं. They they buy the stock from the local factory और वह फिर पूरे Pakistan में as per the distribution strategy हमारे dealers हैं all across Pakistan. We have more than 400 dealer network extensive जो कि फिर stock distributor से लेते हैं और फिर आगे retailers को pass on करते हैं. In terms of कभी कोई price चाहिए जो कोई भी ecosystem support चाहिए हो तो वह सारी की सारी through the distribution channel support होती है. Right plus I think this is also one of the primary reason कि जो हमारा operator है वह ecosystem नहीं build कर सका. हालांकि I think उनके पास if I dare में से एक financial muscle भी है and everything.
Financial में था. अब तो खैर बेचारे थोड़े मार खाए हुए हैं लेकिन एक time के ऊपर तो they their franchise network was phenomenal. I mean easy पैसा and all of these grew because you know they were everywhere. अब तो इन्होंने काफी थक pull back कर लिया गया था. So this is something even you know mystery to me as well. Yeah, you are right कि अगर if if let's say mobile and cortile you know these
folks could have created those experience centers around cell phones जितना आप बाहर जाते ना Best Buy वगैरह में पंद्रह different board पढ़े हैं. But again I think कि उनका यह forte नहीं है. मतलब हमने बड़ी दफा कोशिश की UC हर एक हर बंदे का एक core business होता है. So somehow in Pakistan I think कभी भी telecom operators का यह focused business है. Hardware में गया, hardware में गयी नहीं. उन्होंने कहा यार हमारा बस हम अपनी service day minutes day minutes and date है. But
then again we do have e commerce sites जहां पर हम visible हैं. अच्छा मैं so my next question was gonna be this
look internationally distributors are always gonna be there that's you know anyone who's saying कि one thing is going to completely disrupt the other is just lying but direct to consumer का क्या scene है? And I'll tell you why cell phones जब आप online मंगवाते ना at least आप until now ISIS था वो बेहतर कर रहे हैं एक मुझे YouTube पर ad भी आता रहता है कि जी phone लें, खोलें, check करें, फिर पैसे दें types. So there are people who are trying to do that. One way to sort of really easily cut that is कि भाई मैं techno है. Techno मुझे direct भेज दे चीज़. Like मैं again मैं consumer electronics की बात करूंगा कि if I go to let's say दराज़ and I go to दराज़ mall तो मुझे Hyer या Dolans की factory outlet मिल रहा है. जो यह कह रहा है कि यार first जो movement है वह मेरी तरफ आ रही है. बिल्कुल. Direct to consumer में आप लोग exist करते हैं?
बिल्कुल, दराज के ऊपर और जितने भी e commerce stores हैं we are there. कुछ हमारे अपने direct company operated stores हैं, हमारी website है you can buy from there. Ok. But then again वही वाली बात है कि consumer confidence आज भी शायद even on e commerce change हो रहा है but still more than 90% sales और 95% sales. Distributor की choice है. Is through the offline channel अभी भी. अच्छा offline channel right. हां अगर आप इसको दो categories categories में divide करें offline and online. So online is getting bigger and better but वह on those promotions जो Makes sense I mean
ग्यारह, Black Friday, Blessed Friday पर चलता लेकिन Most of these people are buying their first phones right now. First phones में आप जाते हो, आप shop पर जाते आपको एक exciting experience भी चाहिए. I think second, third, fourth में आप online के ऊपर Exactly Plus हमारी then that comes to how your local market is. हमारे यहां पर doctor की example.
आप कोई भी बंदा बैर होकर आया हो, doctor दो second से ज़्यादा नहीं देगा. Right. उसका diagnose पहले आ गया होगा. हां. कि just tense यह है और यहां पर they need to talk to the doctor. Yeah. और नहीं होगी ना तो तो सलीम नहीं आएगी. हां. वही वाला you go to via mobile. ठीक है? आप online order कर देते हो. आपको एक तो वह suspicious और सारा कुछ. आप दुकान पर जाते हो, you have conversation. The brand promoter, the sales executive, here experience counts a lot which is one of the reasons experience
centers हम लोगों ने भी अपने Correct, company store, company operated stores भी हैं. Companies operated stores Even so much हो कि आप तुम्हारे पास ही आऐंगे तुम अपना बंदा भेजो. So even you know अभी तक consumer
mindset भी एक. What's the experience when in let's say second year city? So you know गुजरावाला सियाल court. मेरे लिए बड़ा interesting हमेशा यह होता है कि Pakistan में ना most when you talk business we tend to converge towards लालाबाद लोहौल कराची and I feel like that's a huge mistake because really the real Pakistan is emerging from these second tier cities फैसलाबाद, गुजरावाला, हैदराबाद और वहां का जो population now mainstream के अंदर घुस रही है ना वह सही disrupt कर रही है in a lot of areas. आप लोगों के case में do you have experience centers outside of इस्लाम बालूह और कराची और service centers or what's the experience been with the consumer from those areas? देखिए मैंने
the network is all across the country और अगर आप mobile phone की specifically smartphone की बात करें तो यह अब एक necessity और need वन गई है. किसी भी बंदे का phone अगर आधे घंटे के लिए उसके पास ना हो या खराब हो जाए और आपने नया phone लेना आप एक दिन भी इंतज़ार नहीं करते. मतलब एक दिन इंतज़ार आपके लिए बड़ा मुश्किल वन जाता है. You go to the northern areas or you know somewhere जब आपका phone चार छह घंटे आपके पास नहीं है या signal नहीं आ रहा है or whatever so you start to feel uncomfortable. So I think कि smartphone जो है वह एक necessity है for everyone और specially for a brand like Techno जो tier two, tier three, tier four, five cities हैं. You know we have people in कोटद्दू, have people in समुद्री, we have people in सख्कर, लैया और वह talk कराची से लेकर खैबर तक even D I खान, you name the place. We have, we have dealers there, we have certain network of stores all across Pakistan, तो वह exist करता है और वहीं से major sales, major मतलब अच्छी sales आती हैं, definitely अच्छे numbers आते हैं because once you say you are a national brand, आपका एक national landscape है, so the phones are selling everywhere equally. Obviously जहां पर population ज़्यादा है वहां पर. Of course. ज़्यादा बिकेगा but ऐसा नहीं है मतलब some cities will even support. That is growth जो है वह तो आपके इधर से ही आएगी. Growth
plus जो पहले हमने बात की इन शहरों में particularly there is this plus factor the shopkeeper place and the brand and the way we are connected और हमारा जो network we have more than 2,000 shops across Pakistan Then how those brand promoters हमारी regular उनके साथ we have these team building exercises specially for the sales staff. Right. कि we make this an exercise कि भैया आपको अपना product आता है और फिर वह जो technology क्योंकि एक एक मंदे को मैं कहूंगा RGBW camera. मैं समझाएगा. तो नहीं समझेगी. अब वह मेरा retailer जो है बैठा हुआ. वह translate करके बताएगा कि sir आपको कि इसमें light ज़्यादा आ रही है और जब light ज़्यादा आ रही है अच्छी picture आएगी.
At that time हम expect कर रहे थे कि यार क्रांची में होगी, या लोहार में होगी. So this goes to show कि यार penetration
is there and you know consumer बहुत ज़्यादा smart और aware है and और grow कर रहा है. और grow Right makes sense. Guys I am going to sort of switch the conversation a little bit and I want to bring the focus towards the current economy. यह आज से ज़्यादा major conversation यही है कि हर economy के हालात बड़े up and down है. Pakistan एक नाज़ुक मोड़ से एक बार फिर से गुज़र रहा है and उसमें ज़ाहिर है कि mobile manufacturing has definitely taken a center stage in the conversation. First of all, as a way of import substitution. We never thought that we will do it but somehow we were able to at least on the assembly side. Now the biggest question for a lot of people is, ठीक assembly हमने कर ली, हम इसको localize कब करना शुरू करेंगे? क्योंकि assembly में तो particularly ना higher value industry like cell phones, the cost is largely the components. अगर मैं marginally देखूं तो वह human arbitrage को इतना ज़्यादा है नहीं, And so, अगर मैं वाकई कहता हूं कि अच्छा मुझे dollar को minimize करना है और spend को minimize करना है तो I will have to at least begin to localize some form of the components to A- save money for Pakistan and B- even if we are looking for exports, there has to be a local ecosystem that builds ताकि हम compete कर सकें with with countries across the world. पहले तो मुझे if you can just, आदिल, run me through 2019 till date. What's happened and what's the future outlook in terms of the localization and the production and potentially export side of things?
देखिए, I'm as far इस इस journey में ना it excites me and you know I think इसमें बहुत ज़्यादा learning थी because जो policy की effectiveness है हम बचपन से सुनते थे जी policy दे दें, stability आ जाए, यह हो जाए, वह हो जाए तो मतलब हमने live through that किया है. So जब यह policy आई factory techno ने लगा ली ठीक है काम होना शुरू हुआ. I tell you we had more than 25 Chinese at that time in our factory. उन्होंने सब staff को train किया. आज हमारे पास सिर्फ एक Chinese है अपनी factory में and हमारे पास चार हज़ार लोग काम कर रहे हैं. ठीक है? उस चार हज़ार में more than 50% are female workers. Once you go to the factory you feel very excited, very proud कि यार we have done something and thanks to all the people who were involved in this. How does the factory look? Amazing. As good as any factory in China. Why
haven't we seen any content? I remember I will be very honest there was a brand in Lahore और फैसलाबाद that opened up इधर कोई c pack का कुछ है इधर एक mobile manufacturer मैंने उनको बोला मैंने कहा यार मैंने एक story करनी है आपके ऊपर मैं बड़ा excited था मैंने कहा यार क्योंकि people like visuals right आप उसको बोलते रहे कि we are producing local nobody cares people like when there is conveyor belt and someone is putting components in and you know उस तरह की how it's made videos. How it's made videos. Right? Yeah. तो इतना बड़ा I will be very honest इतना बड़ा आज़ाब था मैं आपकी बात नहीं कर रहा हूं एक और manufacturer थे but इतना बड़ा आज़ाब था की लग रहा था nuclear facility में हम जा रहे है ना कि घुसने नहीं दे रहे हैं और वह इतना है तो मुझे बड़ा curiosity हुई कि यार यह तो this is the easiest way to market yourself कि भाई मैं local produce कर रहा हूं देखो मेरा बंदा कितना कर रहा एक साहब है. अब वह मेरे पास आए भी थे वह he does PCB manufacturing वह LED lights कर रहे हैं यह कर रहे हैं वह कर रहे हैं वह सुबह शाम Twitter पर करते हैं और उनका सारा system use पर चलता है कि देखो made in Pakistan यहां पर unfortunately हमने वह नहीं देखा.
Okay for this मैं आपको इस तरह कह सकता हूं a the facility हमारी is visible people know कि we do this the thing is हमारा पूरा the thing was कि we wanted our product first. Right. ठीक है? Because people have heard yesterday We and we are not just player they were others and उन्होंने आपने कुछ की videos भी देखी होंगी but हम थे कि let's get the product out first. Product out first with what people want and obviously यह वाला पूरा there is a whole category
of people who want to watch कि assembly line में कैसे हैं और वह. तो reel है ना वह आप है. Thirty second की एक reel बनाए उसको देखे पांच million का impression ना मका आ जाता है. I think this is something
can be looked into. इसको कभी इस perspective से शायद देखा नहीं because हर brand नहीं लगा ली और I think in the flow of things beach में so classes are welcome
anytime.
हम लोग यह बल्कि आप तो आना चाहिए. This जो है आपको see it to believe it. यह भी बात same की factories है they are as good as anywhere
in the world. आप China जाए तो देखो होता है ना आप आज film देखी है आपने recently कोई Oppenheimer. Cinema में internally. I will hold you accountable on this आगे का I will message you one day and I will come to कराची at your factory and I can make some content as well.
Just putting out there के these factories are very sensitive for air quality. यह बहुत micro parts हैं. तो हम वह आप पाड़े शपड़े पर लगा के ढोबे से कुछ बना के and then there are areas where जाएगी हां robotic and parts are very sensitive. If you think about it कि there is a reason कि these devices are very complex. Yeah. और एक चीज़ नहीं है provide करें. किसी वजह से they revolutionized the whole experience, the human experience. Right. Which is it just condensed everything in it. Yeah. Alarm clock, the camcorders, the screens, the cameras, the video cameras, the action cameras, birth shots. It
does so many things. अगर इसमें मैं as an extension to this thought, this was a rather courageous move to actually move to Pakistan because Pakistan में हम कहते हैं बड़ी दफा कहा है कि यार हमारे मुख में talent बहुत है अगर channelize हो जाए मेरा सत्य खयारी है कि talent is is is nurtured Pakistan में talent नहीं है Pakistan में human capital है there hasn't been enough nurturing of said talent or said human capital education का unfortunately इतना good scene नहीं था वगैरह वगैरह के जो first mover था ना उसके लिए सबसे मुश्किल था क्योंकि वो जो आपने कहा पच्चीस Chinese थे चार हज़ार पाकिस्तानी थे for something like let's say जहां पर screens involved है ना वहां पर एक छोटा सा air bubble भी आता ना या आप खड़े होते हो और आपका एक skin का दाना भी गिरता है तो वह device अब out हो गई है. Right? 100%. And that sort of discipline वह again मैं हवाला दूंगा Tim Cook का कि उन्होंने जब बोला कि he said कि China में लोग इस वजह से नहीं जा रहे कि वह सस्ता है China में लोग processes की वजह से जा रहे हैं क्योंकि they have been able to identify कि how to maximize the productivity of a human being while also ensuring कि quality को आप किस तरह maximize करना है how was that explained? You have been there since the very start Talent I feel like is the most difficult thing to find in Pakistan in any work. Like, मैंने अपने studio में I have hired at least 50 people on and off in the last three years. It's unheardment.
Think I I would like to comment कि यार talent exists. It's how you train and nurture them. इसमें यह है कि I think एक discipline inflict करना जो भी Chinese team आती है and you know how you train the resources very very important. उसमें बहुत ज़्यादा मेहनत लगी उसमें बहुत ज़्यादा sessions उनकी personal grooming से लेकर professional device की handling processes again and again. उसमें होता जाता है मतलब एक factory worker जब import हो रहा है तो was he going through some sort of training pass? Yes there was a complete, there is a complete training program जिसमें उसके पहले उसको test करना है then फिर उनको पूरा train कराना. आपकी एक you know जिसको trial productions कहते हैं वह होना कोई भी नया phone आ रहा है उसकी पहले एक line है for example जो कि दिन के दो हज़ार phone बना सकती है. Start में उसमें दो सौ phone या बीस phone बनते थे एक दिन में. Right. So एक gradual जिसको कहते हैं कि increment हुआ from दो से दो सौ बनना शुरू है, दो सौ से हज़ार बनना शुरू है और आज की तारीख में वही line पंद्रह सौ से दो हज़ार phone एक दिन में बनाने की capability रखती है. Right. So एक line पर generally 40 to 50 people होते हैं और वह they are all, you know, coordinating
with each other to complete one क्योंकि this is what this is an impact I feel like जो कि ना shadows में गुम हो जाता है कि आप चले ठीक है आप phones बना रहे हैं आपने localize कर दिया आप job creation कर रहे हैं वो सारा कुछ कर रहे हैं 40,000 लोग हैं जिनको jobs मिली directly और फिर इनको training मिल गई है off of. They are skilled workers. Yeah और अब वो जैसे जैसे अब कल को कहता है यार मुझे ये fish tanks assembly line डालनी है. Now they have trained resources in the market. दुनिया में आप अगर देखें तो और इसमें even more importantly
जो मैं दोबारा reemphasize करता हूं कि 40 to 50% are female workers उनका हाथ ज़्यादा साफ होता है जब वो टांका लग रहा है या you know वह device को ज़्यादा carefully handle करती है. वह आ रहे हैं अपने घरों से, they are helping their families. एक बड़ा proud feeling आती once you are standing there and you just see and observe for the next मतलब आप दस पंद्रह minute उधर देखें तो you will have a very good feeling. Is the assembly line eight hours, sixteen hours, twenty four hours? Eight hours. Hours कीजिए. आपने two shifts चला लें, three चला लें but एक shift is only for eight. नहीं but you guys generally जो factors. Depending upon the capacity.
चौबीस चौबीस घंटे भी चली है कभी? Beach में
there was time जहां पर two shifts चली है. चौबीस घंटे तो नहीं but two shifts sixteen hours तो commonly हो जाती. Right. जब आपने बात शुरू की
on talent and हमारी population size और सारा कुछ exactly one of my Chinese asked me this. I have worked in Chinese companies all the way. तो she said कि आपका population advantage क्यों नहीं है? You guys are so many and then अपना उसने example होत दिया कि हम because we have population advantage and therefore we have this this this and in our case I think a standardization of processes is very important, implementation of those processes and then having the whole अब देखिए जब जैसे हमने बात की कि हम जब manufacturing industry में जाते हैं we are not just focusing on one particular set skill set we are actually trying to develop a whole skill set which is surrounding उसके साथ जो quality maintain करता है जैसे like what you know about quality is you can't get a good quality product if you don't have the good quality process a good quality input. Right. In all of this then it comes down to the whole ecosystem कि how well the population is trying to simulate कि अच्छा यह चीज़ हो जाएगी. फिर उनको वह train करना फिर वह पूरी चीज़ education, the whole cleanliness part यह सारी चीज़ें plays an important part in getting that population advantage. Therefore it is said कि anything in excess can either be very beneficial for you or it In become a very our case, our population advantage became a disadvantage to us. कुछ चीज़ों पर we have so many big numbers कि we are competing it against each other. Right. But come to think of it देखिए
हमारा जो vision है वह यही है कि mobile phone को एक champion industry बनाना है. If you look at Vietnam 40,000,000,000 की exports हैं उनकी mobile phones की. अगर आप अपनी neighboring country की बात करें India की तो eight to 10,000,000,000 iPhone 15 is majority make in India. तो अगर आप China का number देखें तो it's 120,000,000,000 of dollar worth of exports. तो अगर आप उसका एक small chunk जिसको आपके 10% भी target कर लें with with the with the strategy what जो कि सारे stakeholders मिलकर बनाएं. So we are talking a market size of export market of $12,000,000,000. So I think इसके ऊपर जो इसके
ऊपर हम सबको मिलकर काम करना चाहिए इस तमाम stakeholders को to achieve that. I think इसमें ना एक बहुत yesterday I was speaking to मलिकामीन असम साहब he was a former minister of climate change and he spoke about the auto policy that he was pushing through in 2019 never went through there's a lot of backlash from the hardcore auto industry but he said something very profound he said कि listen 2019 was the time when I was looking geopolitically and I realized कि China के ऊपर certain दरवाज़े बंद होने वाले हैं. अच्छा China के दरवाज़े बंद होने वाले हैं इसका मतलब यह नहीं है कि China काम करना छोड़ देगा. Russia के दरवाज़े बंद हुए तो Russia ने अपना वही तेल जब India के ध्रुवेश नशु कर दिया. Pakistan now actually has a very very good opportunity because अगर आपने I don't know last week I read a report by the European Union जिसमें हमने 10 industries identified किए हैं and that they would like to stay away from vis a vis China. अचास्तेमें telecom is one of them. And that basically, essentially what that means is कि there is now a potential opportunity to read out that industry through Pakistan. Mean if Europe, देखिए Europe कर रहा है ना तो Vietnam की advantage खतम हो जाती है Far East की advantage जो है ना वह समंदर ही चलो फिर भी चल जाती है but because South China Sea and the Indian Ocean are both hostile to China essentially so there is an opportunity कि वह Pakistan is very well placed whether you have to go to Central Asia, whether you have to go down through The Middle East and onwards towards Europe or you go through Iran to Turkey and then to Europe. Auto जो electric vehicle है वह शायद हमने we miss that boat but I feel like यह mobile phone manufacturing is यह बहुत एक quick window है आपके पास. Exactly. जिसमें with the right policy speaking to the right people with the right investment you can very quickly create a counter space जिसमें आप जो 10% कह रहे हैं ना वह बहुत legitimate opportunity लग रही है वह अभी ऐसे नहीं लगा कि 10% ले लेंगे. नहीं नहीं. 10% in times of a geopolitical shift can very very easily be managed
अगर तरीके से उसको किया जाए. Exactly because आप देखें 100% तो 120,000,000,000 बनता है we are just talking 10% जिसका शायद you don't need all those major players अगर आप दो तीन companyयां भी पकड़कर you know strategically play करें. So I think this number is doable. सबसे पहली चीज़ तो यह है. दूसरी चीज़ यह है कि देखिए I am a believer कि यार actions speak louder than words. तो जो policy दो हज़ार उन्नीस में आई थी उसका result क्या है? So I think I would request to all the listeners कि हमें auto से या किसी से compare ना करें. हमारे actions देखें कि हमने क्या किया है और हम क्या कर सकते हैं? So I think this industry has a huge huge potential, number one. Number two यह है कि आप जो उसमें दो steps हैं, जो challenges हैं वह क्या है localization. जिसकी तरफ हम इस साल जा रहे हैं because policy में तीन साल का time था. We are going localization. We can start with just as small thing as packaging and आपके chargers, cables. I can all already see cottage industry popping up. यह होता क्या है कि cottage industry निकलती है. एक बंदा है वह cable बना रहा है. कोई charger बना रहा है, cable का connector बना रहा है. You know these are small things भले उसका raw material वह buyer से मंगवा रहा है. उसको किस तरीके से हम regularize कर सकते हैं, support कर सकते हैं. तो वह चीज़ें भी export हो सकती हैं. Right. Come to think of it even data cable hundreds of millions of dollars की export होती है from one company to another company. Charge है, screen है, packaging है. So, I mean this is a huge potential for us. तो localization and export I think is the next big thing. Export के अंदर obviously we need to sit with the government. हमें right, I don't want to sound कि marketing कर रहे हैं कि यार एक subsidy हो या support हो जिसके through या जो भी policy हो जिसके through ऐसा ecosystem develop किया जाए कि यार लोग यह कोशिश करें brands की कोशिश करें कि यार आप you know you sell out of partners. What's I mean
let's talk about that let's talk about potential policy areas that you'd like help in right. I think one thing that the country at large is now rallied together on is they don't want subsidy. वह even textile के पीछे पड़ गए हैं कि यार आपको export पर subsidy नहीं मिलने वाली क्योंकि we just don't want to subsidize anything else already that's just keeps on biting us. So now we have to come up with innovative ways to ये पुरानी ही methodology है ना कि यार export को subsidize कर दो, competitive हो जाओ बेच दो लेकिन वो थोड़े अड़ से चलता है अड़ से वो नहीं हो पाता. We need to come up with I don't know some sort of या तो हम free trade agreements भी देखें उसमें उसमें हम देखें कि अच्छा tax free, free zones, special technology zones कहां पर हम जाकर support provide कर सकते हैं? देखिए
मैं इसमें दो दिन examples देना चाहूंगा और I think I will be little harsh as well. Brazil ने क्या किया उसने कहा कि यार आज से अगर because हमारा as Pakistan अब हम as पाकिस्तानी बात कर रहे हैं. Brazil ने कहा कि यार हम हमारा advantage क्या है हमारी market? Pakistan का advantage क्या है? आपकी ढाई सौ million की market market. किसी को यह चाहिए तो उसको इसके लिए he has to earn it. ठीक है? हम यह नहीं कहते कि यार directly subsidy दो इसके भी way out निकल सकते हैं. उन्होंने कहा यार Brazil ने यह कहा कि यार अगर हमारे मुल्क में phone बेचना है it has to be locally assembled. ठीक है? So this is how you you know do things. Pakistan ने क्या कहा? Pakistan ने यह हम दो हज़ार उन्नीस की example देख लेते हैं इन्होंने कहा कि जी अगर आप local बनाएंगे तो आपको certain duty subsidized नहीं है मतलब duty नहीं है there is no rebate. Tax break मिल जाएगा ना आपको? Tax break मिल जाएगा whatever. तो मतलब tax में पैसा आपकी चेब में नहीं लग रहा लेकिन यह क्या आपको एक break मिल जाएगा. Exactly. अब similarly what we can do is I am just thinking out loud और I think यह certain discussions में propose भी हुआ था कि हम इसी industry से एक certain tax generate कर सकते हैं कि यार अगर अब सारी बंदे localize हो गए हैं आप एक, एक small tax implement करें on everyone who is assembling and selling here और वही आप उसको incentive करें जो buyer बेच सकते हैं. Right. ठीक है, so I mean there are ways जिसमें industry के साथ बैठ के आप you know, you can find out ways. For example सौ लोग बना रहे हैं. आप सौ से अगर एक एक रुपया ले दें, आपके पास सौ रुपए जमा हो गए और जो एक बंदा wire बेच रहा है उसको आप पांच रुपए दे देंगे तो वह भी incentivize हो जाएगा because आपको यह देखना है कि यार आपको compare करना है China से. आपकी labor cost कम है but labor efficiency भी कम है. वह grow कर रही है. ठीक है? फिर आपका local ecosystem in terms of raw material exist नहीं करता. फिर वही वाली बात कि आपकी logistic cost exist नहीं करती. आप China से या Vietnam से या Indonesia से raw material मंगवाते हैं. आप उसके बाद Hong Kong से उसके बाद उस raw material को आप यहां पर assemble करते हैं. फिर आप export करते हैं यहां से Dubai बिर Dubai से वह कहीं और जाता है. So you know आपको three times और two times the logistic cost लग रही है. So there are multiple factors जो कि even though अगर हम वह cost efficiency through localization achieve कर लेते हैं फिर भी you know there are factors hindering it but at the same time उसके solutions भी exist करते हैं. जैसा मैंने आपको अभी बताया गया है इसी industry को आप say वह revenue generate करके इसी को आप plus जो इन्होंने example example. Exact
adaptability. This is one of the things for survival. ठीक है? Take example of UAE. COVID hit. Everyone was like अब क्या करेंगे? ठीक है? उन्होंने इसी ecosystem को पकड़ा. उन्होंने कहा okay SOPs के हैं? अभी के. उन्होंने World Health Organization के साथ बैठे हैं. उन्होंने पूरे COVID के rules maintain किए. उन्होंने creator economy पर post लिया. उन्होंने पूरी दुनिया के top creators को invite किया, sponsor किया. उन्होंने कहा आओ Dubai में बैठो.
हर चीज़ open है क्योंकि हम SOPs follow भी कर रहे हैं. हर चीज़ उसी तरह होगी जो guidelines provided हैं. You do the content making here. We provide you this case. इसकी एक और example है फिर मैंने पूरा एक चीज़ खड़ी है. EV पर I think Indonesia थी और someone जिसमें वह कहते थे कि यार आप हर साल fuel पर subsidy देते उन्होंने calculate कि यार एक साल की fuel की subsidy इतनी है वह अगर हम EV पर दे देंगे तो you know अंधा से हम fuel पर नहीं देंगे and they you know converted. I think it was Indonesia or someone मैं कहीं I was reading about Plus अभी recently जो EV. It's all about policy आप उसको design The करते options can always be you know experience and I think industry is ready और if I dare में say कि यार आपको push करना पड़ेगा brands को to do that और उसका low hanging fruit for the brands क्या है? ढाई सौ million की मार. भाई आपको यह चाहिए तो यह करें. Makes sense. मुझे यह बताएं कि is there a
manufacturer association of sorts that's popped up जो कि potentially एक single point of view दे सके to the government to have this conversation.
All Pakistan mobile phone manufacturers association exist करती है. जितनी भी 31 factories हैं ये उसके members हैं. उसकी अपनी proper policies and everything.
Structure base करता है?
Right, सबाधास्त I am gonna wrap this up at the one hour twenty three minute mark. अली मुझे एक बात बताइएगा आपकी मेरे दिमाग में. How important have the influences been particularly the tech reviewers, बिलाल मुनीश of the world in you getting your message out first of all and you driving sales. How important is that component now?
Okay, I will say this कि every person जो हमने शुरू में बात की हर बंदे का एक point of view है और हर बंदे का specially the consumers, they have a particular set of ideas they want to have और these people play a very important role because they are key influence leaders. Someone will buy something, it is their cup of tea because it is recommended by somebody. For example, if I know you well and I will a word-of-mouth to यार इस restaurant से खाना खा लो, you will take it as it कि यार इसने कह दिया because I trust him. इसी तरह these influencers and these content creators or influencers play an important role. However, in this day and age, the consumer is not कि उसको आप कुछ भी कहोगे, चल जाएगा. Paid content is not treated nicely. You know this. There has been so many cases where मैं किसी influencer को कहूंगा मेरे phone के साथ तो यह lower नीचे होगा या यह तो यह करती नहीं होंगी use. Which is actually true. People feel that. So this is where we come in and we as a brand team or as people who are doing this needs to know that our consumers are very intelligent people. They need to be even these people have changed their content in a way that they put out कि यार यह comparisons हैं. अब जैसे for example all of these influencers they tell directly कि यार आपकी हम यह इस तरह नहीं करेंगे. We will put the thing. Because we can't be lying to our audience. So being true to your audience is something that we as a brand have to understand and adapt to it. Right. And then find a way to integrate this to get our message across what we want the consumer to know as well as them to feel कि this is not something coming across the face.
I think वह एक जो major important चीज़ है ना वह यह है कि a lot of times initially a lot of brands what they started doing was they saw influencers as a billboard. Yes. So they saw it as कि I'll just put it out there. What they didn't realize was this was a relationship industry this was not a billboard advertising space you build relationships with influencers and then the influencers organically and authentically make sure that you and obviously if your product is good make sure they will recommend you authentically and organically. आपको और आपकी बात बिल्कुल मजा है कि I have seen this happen where people would come in they will throw money and they will say listen like ये चार talking points है Instagram की post के ऊपर आकर ना बैठ के phone आप Instagram पर nobody sells authentically nobody sell a phone कि यार यह मैंने नया phone खरीदा story में मैं डाल दूं Right मैं post में नहीं डालूंगा. So थोड़ा सा आपको design Medium
is the message. Marshall निकलन. That is what I believe. आपको अपने medium को understand करना पड़ेगा. मेरी grid is different, my reel is different, my shorts is different, my community shorts is different, my हर अब Twitter Expeg है अब the whole thing changed, reels is different मतलब what I try to say is your message needs to be Tailor to every specific. Tailor to every specific. Plus the influencer itself उनकी relationship you have to keep that mind know the mister beast of the world आपको integration plays an important part and how certainly organically you do it is Makes the
sense. Guys I am gonna wrap this up this was incredibly insightful. Thank you so I am going to ask you one last question that I ask all of my guests I like insight from the both of you on that. How do you see Pakistan of twenty fifty, twenty seven years from now knowing all of what you know now and seeing all of what you've seen? With the caveat that you can't mention that we have a huge youth population as you've mentioned yourself, it is certainly could be an advantage or a disadvantage तो वह that stand alone doesn't do anything for Pakistan and दूसरा if you avoid the ifs अगर यह हो गया तो यह है I want you to look around जो इस व्यक्त आपको data नज़र आ रहे हैं and try to extrapolate that to twenty seven years What's the vision of Pakistan that you see you know in 2050? Start with you अदील.
आपने question को थोड़ा सा difficult कर दिया है you know youth and population जो कि हमारे true potentials हैं. I think कि I am an optimist. I think कि potential तो definitely है. उसको हम utilize किस तरीके से करते हैं? That totally depends on us. I think as an individual, as a family, as a nation, as a community we all have to work hard. I think we have to focus on the next task in front of us. You know not see the bigger picture individually and you know just focus on the task at hand because हम ही लोग travel करते हैं, motorway पर चढ़ते हैं, seat belt लगा लेते हैं, दोबारी जाते हैं, lineओं में खड़े हो जाते हैं, यहां पर आते हैं हम कहते हैं तेरारी ऐसी की कैसी. So you know I think self discipline is is is very very important. Potential is there I think कि हमेशा where there is a will there is a way वह क्या होगा? कैसे होगा? That you know all of us has to find it together. If you ask me, I don't have one specific answer for that but going through the experience of the mobile phone and going through this manufacturing what I have experienced is कि यार the talent is there potential मतलब someone has it who to will it be एक consistency होनी चाहिए because हमारे भी जो Chinese हैं international you know top bosses हैं management हैं वह आना चाहते हैं they want to invest but फिर कुछ instability Stability होती होती हां. तो मतलब हम बचपन से सुनते थे यार instability है तो हम कहते थे क्या but now we have experienced it कि यार वह आती है तो उससे एक confidence. Shatter होता है. Shatter होता है या develop होता है अगर एक stable हां. Environment I think हमें सिर्फ stable environment चाहिए और potential है और it's just how to you know
explore it. अरे what about you? What do you think? अच्छा since you
put so many filters लेकिन honestly and this is something I am saying it my my whole truth which is I wish I hope के Pakistan becomes more welcoming open it becomes very it becomes a state that is happy, that allows people to do what they want and has a very good balance of how to identify कि what to do and what not to do but I hope it also finds its true identity which is how we can be what we ought to be and I think for that everyone needs to play an important role और this is amazing country I build to so many. I live here. तो bias है लेकिन amazing country, amazing people and with all of what we have said हल्का सा भी उसका 10 भी we achieve but 2050 is like I think we will have one of the most creative hybrid economies in the world. और उसमें मैं just to conclude आप मुझे थोड़ा सा time मिल गया सोचना just so
you know potentials की बात कर लें I think कि आपने कहा कि how will we achieve that? I think still China is a big, has a big role to play with the CPAC and everything all those because हम travel करते हैं China, you know, we are seeing agriculture के अंदर बहुत कम हो रही है not just technology आपका agriculture के अंदर there is so much going on there are so many companies coming here so how to you know give them a good environment and control them and manage them I think हम इन्हीं को कर लें तो बहुत है. बहुत है. ठीक है. हमेरे को दादा कुछ छत्ते पढ़ने की ज़रूरत नहीं हमेरे कुछ यह नहीं है कि अपने आप को optimize करो. The next big thing हम. I think the solutions already have existed across the world. Now we just have to look at them and implement them. We don't have to reinvent the wheel. We just have to, you know, Korea कैसे develop हुआ? US ने अपनी technology transfer की, China कैसे हुआ? Transfer की you know. So it's just that कि हमें वह technology उधर से इधर transfer करनी है, advantage लेना है उस population का, अपने neighbors का. We have to good have good relations all around and I think will be good yeah. Makes sense guys thank you so much for coming in and चेने के बहुत है insight interest. Super
informative for all of you guys thank you so much for watching. अगर आपको ये episode पसंद आई हो अपने दोस्तों यानी सारे ज़रूर share करिएगा. नीचे comment section में मुझे अपने time what phone do you use नीचे link आ रही होगी for overseas पाकिस्तानीs if they'd like to support the channel you know to help us remain independent for as long as possible you can check the link out as well but anyways this was साहिद मज़हब्बेला संजय दी you're watching thought behind things thank you so much for watching and I'll see you in the next one.
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