Eighty percent of Pakistan's remittances still move illegally

Khawateen-o-hazraat, welcome back to another episode of Thought Behind Things. Aaj hamare saath maujood hain ek bahut hi khaas mehman, jinko bulane ka maqsad primarily yeh tha ke I've been interested in figuring out, kyunke khud aapko pata hai ke main recently Dubai move hua. Um, aur jab aap Pakistan se bahar jate hain, toh for the first time aapko experience hota hai bahut active money transfer ka. Pehle toh aap karte rehte hain, theek hai yaar chalo iPhone khareedna hai, uske liye paise, woh bhi mostly aapko koi janne wala kar deta hai aur aap PKR mein hi kar rahe hote hain. But when you're out of Pakistan, you have to deal with a lot of foreign currencies, then you get an insight on ke acha yaar yeh toh ek poori dollar rate wali market hai. Um, phir usme ek direct market hai, bank rate hai, open market hai and there is an entire science to it. Um, and I wanted to understand ke yeh saari cheez kis tarah se kaam karti hai, remittance waghera kis tarah se kaam karti hai. Most importantly, you guys know that I've been very actively speaking about this ke hamari jo overseas Pakistanis hain, which are now over 10 million Pakistanis and growing every year. Almost 1 million people left Pakistan last year alone. Aur yeh koi buri baat nahi hai, yeh koi yeh nahi hai ke acha bahut brain drain ho raha hai. This trend, irrespective of what's happening in Pakistan, I think is going to aggressively continue over the next few years, particularly jab aap dekhte hain ke Europe ki jo Europe as a whole, udhar ki jo logon ki age hai woh badh rahi hai. They want immigrants and they will be getting those immigrants from Pakistan, India, and Bangladesh and countries like that. Toh yeh active jo migration hai, yeh aur zyada badhegi. Um, aur phir zahir hai ke jab woh migration ho rahi hai, toh it's a good idea to keep these people connected to your country. Um, and then obviously utilize the remittance that they send. It's a very, very important component of our economy. Almost 30 billion dollars salana jo hai woh remittance ka ikatha hota hai, which is far more than what we generate through exports. Considering the fact ke exports ka ek major component waise bhi raw material mein chala jata hai. Toh actually net ke upar what we earn from remittance in my, you know, mere case mein woh is twice what we're earning from exports, especially agar hum even jo aapka hawala hundi hai usko bhi add karein, toh people are sending a lot of money. Um, and that really sustains Pakistan, that really helps Pakistan and the more we grow it, the more we support it, it's really going to help us out in the long run. Uske liye aaj humne bulaya hai as a guest, Naqqash Hafiz, who is the executive head at Ace Money Transfer. So thank you so much for being part of the show.

Thank you, thank you, thank you for inviting. Thank you.

Naqqash bhai, mujhe thoda sa start mein pehle yeh batayein, what does Ace Money Transfer do? Um, what's the scale? Aap log kis level pe operate kar rahe hain? Sirf Pakistan mein kar rahe hain ya poori duniya mein kar rahe hain? Tell me a little bit about your company and your operations.

Basically, Ace Money Transfer is a company that is basically a brand name of Aftab Currency Exchange Limited. We started our operations, uh, very, uh, you would rather say that very humble start from Bolton, UK with just one branch and one small office and where we started our operations. We used to provide that that's what you have talked about, remittance services. 2002 mein shuru kiya tha aap logon ne? 2002 se hum UK se Pakistan predominantly hum money transfer services provide kar rahe the. 2002 mein iska aaghaz hua. Phir with the passage of time, jab international money transfer ki regulations change hoti gayin, new regulations aati gayin. 2009 mein humne UK mein Financial Conduct Authority hai UK, usse humne license liya as an authorized payment institution. Right. Uh, aur hum hum jo services provide karte hain, woh money transfer services hain, home remittance jo overseas Pakistanis jo Europe mein rehte hain, UK mein rehte hain, Australia mein rehte hain, Canada mein ya Switzerland mein rehte hain, woh Ace Money Transfer ke zariye apne gharon mein Pakistan mein isi tarah se Bangladesh, India, Sri Lanka, Gambia, Ghana, takreeban duniya ki 106 countries mein hamare through paise bhej sakte hain. Interesting. Uh, hum 28 sending countries se money transfer ki services provide karte hain to around 106 countries in the world. Interesting. Aur worldwide remittance market is around 750 billion ki remittance market hai aur usme se agar hum dekhein toh around 40% uh jo remittance flow karti hai around 37 to 38, yeh top 10 sending countries se paise ja rahe hote hain. Kyunki agar hum receiving perspective se dekhein toh around 50 to 55% sirf top 10 countries mein paise receive ho rahe hote hain. Pakistan who was between 6 to 7 number standing back in 2020, one stats, we stand at 6 number as the one of the largest remittance receiving countries in the world where we stood at around 31.2 billion dollars of remittance receipts.

Aur yeh abhi aap bata rahe hain jo ke sara white wala bank channels wala. Abhi aapko yeh nahi pata ke Pakistan mein kitni remittance aa rahi hai outside of the network jo potentially you know black market se move kar rahi hai. Black market aap isko kahein ya any illicit means of transferring money. Toh this is not only Pakistan's trauma. Yeh ek worldwide dilemma hai. You cannot 100% curb this market. There is no possibility ke aap isko 100% curb kar sakein. Aap controls develop karte hain, aap policies banate hain, aap legal channels ko facilitate karne ke liye, yeh promote karne ke liye ease of remittances provide karte hain taake legal channels grow hon aur against law enforcement aur regulations se aap dusri markets ko curb down or cut down karne ki koshish karte hain. Worldwide bhi jo remittance pundits kehte hain ke around 80% of the remittances they still flow through illicit means. So agar 750 billion ki 700 plus billion ki ek worldwide remittance market hai toh itni na sahi lekin iska 80% through illicit means transfer hoti hai abhi bhi. Right. Aur Pakistan is not a different case. Itna hi Pakistan ka bhi expected hai ke 75 to 80% of current jo regulated channels se remittances ja rahi hain, itna takreeban illicit means se bhi flow karti hain. So one could estimate that agar 30 billion regulated aa rahi hai toh maybe actual number 45 billion tak I would rather say 50 billion. Right. Ke 50 billion tak overall remittances 45 to 50 billion. Interesting. Total remittances illicit and through legal channels. Interesting. And that's a huge number, right? Because that means a lot of people don't realize regulated versus unregulated because in a lot of ways I watched a documentary recently jisme it was about you know drug and heroin trade in Africa. But somehow main woh dekh raha tha you know randomly it's interesting and then suddenly Karachi pops up. And I'm like yeh Pakistan kahan se aa gaya na? Aur pata yeh laga ke ji woh jo paisa movement hai woh hawala ke through hoti hai aur uska network Karachi se operate ho raha hai. And suddenly you realize ke acha aap toh you know you may be sitting outside, you're sending money ke yaar mujhe 3 rupaye ka rate acha mil raha hai but you're effectively becoming a part of drug trade and and a lot of illicit activity just because of that being part of that versus agar aap you know regulated channels ke through bhejein. I mean again you don't have anything to hide right? Like aap regular hain, aap naukri kar rahe hain, aapne ghar walon ko bhijwana hai. Just for those two three rupees effectively aap jo hai woh you're becoming a part of a lot of criminal activity effectively I would say.

I would definitely agree with you but there are other reasons as well ke sirf yeh nahi hai ke drug trafficking ya human trafficking ya isse related amounts hi transfer hoti hain through illicit means. No, what I what I basically mean is that bahut regular amounts bhi hoti hain. Main yeh keh raha hoon ke regular amounts hain they are actually supporting that network. Yeah, yeah, 100% agreed. Because cash flow toh wahan se aa raha hai na. Ji bilkul, 100% agreed. Balki saath mein balki main isme yeh bhi add karta jaunga ke yeh bribery, corruption aur in sab cheezon ki money ki movement usme yeh part play karta hai illicit means of transferring money. For instance, jo hamare overseas Pakistanis ki agar example bhi le lein ya worldwide bhi jo log apni countries se door ja ke kisi dusre country mein particularly European countries mein ya Canadian, Australian countries mein ja ke earn karte hain, amount they want to send their money to back to their homes. Toh at times aise bhi hota hai ke log jo utni jitni unki income ho, declared income ho un countries mein locally, usse unki earning zyada ho. Toh woh jitni declared income hai itni toh illicit means se nahi bhejenge, utni toh legal channel se bhejenge. On top of that what they would be earning, uske liye woh other than legal means use karenge. Isi tarah se Pakistan chunke agar worldwide aap immigration mein bhi dekhein toh immigration aur remittance they go hand by hand. Right. Itne zyada jis tarah se aapne abhi zikr bhi kiya ke immigration jitni zyada migrant workers honge, utne remittances bhi zyada increase karengi. Toh Pakistan migration mein bhi 7th on the list hai back from 2000, in fact 1971 se lekar 2021 tak ke jo stats hain World Bank ke on migration, they say ke around 11.1 million Pakistani workers Pakistan se bahar gaye hain, migrant workers. This is only the number of the workers, not those not those families, not overseas Pakistanis. Oh wow. So that means the actual number of overseas Pakistanis could potentially be 10% of the population. Aur agar agar woh main 2x karoon. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Abhi main bache nahi daal raha. Ji, toh yeh basically in mein se bahut saare migrant workers aapne dekha hoga wapas bhi aate hain, unke contracts waghera conclude hote hain, they come back to Pakistan aur countries like US, Europe, Canada, Australia where people may also seek for their residency as well and their nationality toh unke paas dual nationalities bhi hoti hain, their kids basically end up being more American than they've never readily visited toh woh out ho jata hai. Basically yeh jitni migration zyada hai usi ke saath remittances bhi hain. Lekin migration mein agar ek perspective aap aur dekhenge ke aapko nazar aa raha hota hai every now and then newses mein migration mein bhi human smuggling se related I-rose aapko khabrein sunne mein milti hain ke ships ki ya kishtiyon ke doob jaane ki aur unmein bahut saare illegal jo immigrants hote hain un unki bhi. Ab woh illegal immigrants jab UK mein, Europe mein ya in countries mein ja rahe hote hain toh unke saath they get exploited as well. So for a worker who would be getting a fixed government fixed minimum wage per hour toh immigrant workers would not be getting the same if they get a work there. Toh ab unke liye ek toh earning ki opportunities relatively kam hoti hain aur phir jab woh earn karte hain, they do not have the legal means to stay there. So they obviously would look for illegal means to send money back to their homelands. Makes sense. Overall Pakistani market ki agar main baat karoon, how has the entire space evolved? Aap mujhe bata rahe the ke pehle balki rather mujhe yeh batayein aaj aap logon ki kis tarah hai? Is this an app jiske upar transfer hota hai? What does the product look like and how does the transfer happen? What's what's the user experience? Basically Ace Money Transfer, we provide services completely digitally to our customers. So any of the customers who live either in UK, European Union, Switzerland, Australia or Canada, they can visit our website or download our mobile app. In fact, more than 90% of our customers, they love to use our app rather than website because it is more convenient and mobile phones aaj kal har person ke paas hain, smartphones. Toh log hamari services ko use karne ke liye just download our mobile app. It would take 2 minutes to sign up including uploading your IDs and address details. Aur they can send money to anyone in Pakistan to their bank accounts, to mobile wallet accounts, anyone they can collect cash in Pakistan from almost every Pakistani bank just like Bank Al Habib as well. And we proudly say that it would take you 7 seconds to send money from Australia, Canada and Europe to Pakistan. Really? Yeah. It's 7 seconds. Matlab wahan pe aapne woh kiya aur within the next 10-15 seconds mein aapko If you are sending to any bank account, you can send even 24/7 anytime at the night. It doesn't matter ke Pakistan mein bank us time pe close hain. It's a bank holiday, even Eid hai ya 1st May hai, Labour Day hai, banks closed hain, it doesn't matter. Aap UK mein, Europe mein apne time ke mutabiq, apni convenience ke mutabiq hamari app open karein, apne debit card se, apne credit card se, apne bank account se ya is methods like Apple Pay or Google Pay unke through bhi aap humein pay kar sakte hain aur hamari app ke through aap Pakistan ke kisi bhi bank account mein paise bhej sakte hain. Within time of 7 seconds, aapki compliance ki requirements jo aapki ID ya basic information hai woh correct honi chahiye. So it would take you 7 seconds to get your money in your bank account in Pakistan. We were one of the first companies in remittance who offered its customers with an ability to validate their bank accounts. UK mein, Europe mein bahut zyada ek challenge rehta tha logon ke liye ke their account numbers ko yaad rakhna ya account numbers mein paise bhejna, transposition errors hain, 786 ke bajaye 876 likh diya. Is tarah ke problems rehte hain jiski wajah se jab is tarah ke issues aate hain toh jo payments ko rectify karna padta hai, it normally takes time. Toh customers ko bahut neesh understanding toh nahi hoti ke back end pe kis tarah ki working hoti hai. Corrections ke liye aapko pehle amendments ko authorize karna padta hai, transactions ko cancel karwana padta hai, bank ke paas jaati hain cheezein. Ek ek lengthy aur tedious process hai. Toh we were one of the first companies in Pakistan jinhone apni technology ko is level tak upgrade kiya with the help of Pakistani banks ke we are directly integrated with the banks in Pakistan jiske through hum apne customers ko UK mein, Europe mein humne service provide karni shuru ki ke woh apne bank account details dalein, apna bank select karein, they press a button there provided within our app to validate. Once they press that validate, it would validate their account. It will return with them to them with a message that unka account correct hai ya nahi hai. Agar nahi hai correct toh usko correct karenge, details ko theek karenge. Jaise hi correct ho gaya account that's it. Now this is up to you ke aap kis waqt pay karte hain. As soon as you pay from your debit credit card, account is already validated, it would take less than 7 seconds for the money to get credited to your bank account.

Agar aap apni passive income ke bare mein pareshan hain, khas kar aaj kal ki economy mein jahan par already cash continuously burn ho raha hai aur inflation hamein maar rahi hai, toh I'm proud to announce that this video is in partnership with Sarmaya Financials. They're offering two very, very cool trainings. Capital Market Fundamentals jisme aap stocks aur mutual funds mein invest karna seekhenge aur understand karenge ke akhir ek company ke andar kya aise fundamentals hote hain jinko aapne dekhna hota hai to figure out ke woh ek achi company hai to invest in. Aur dusri training hai Technical Analysis Masterclass jisme aap seekhenge ke kis tarike se hum different tradable assets like commodities, forex, stocks, crypto ke andar thode se paise lagakar bahut zyada paise bana sakte hain. Personally yeh training maine bhi li hai and it's absolutely phenomenal. The link to the trainings are in the description below. Check them out and become financially healthy. And now back to the podcast. Interesting. Uh, mujhe yeh batayein how do you compare yourself to let's say some of these newer age services like Wise or Remitly or you know jo aaj kal pop up kar rahi hain, YouTube pe ads waghera chal rahe hote hain. Um, how would you differentiate between those?

Uh, we are a company that has been in operations since 2002 aur the way we would cover compare ourselves with them ke hamari company we had a unique advantage. We used to have a traditional remittance model as well as well as digital. So these might only be the new digital only companies but humne for a period of 10 more than 10 10 years we served customers in person as well from our agents locations in UK and Europe. Toh hum is apne over experience of more than a decade 15 years ke experience mein hamein customers ke pain points ka badi achi tarah se idea hai ke what are customers pain points. What customer needs from a remittance service provider. Toh humne us experience ko cater karte hue humne jo apni mobile app provide ki usme aise features rakhe jo hum hamein us experience se humne learn kiya aur hum apne usi experience ki basis ke upar jo maine zikr kiya aap se ke we were one of the first companies jisne account validation ki option provide ki ke we knew ke customers ke liye kahan pe problems aate hain, kahan pe customers ko suffer karna padta hai. Isi tarah se baaz customers regularly amount send karte hain to selected family members toh humne unki ease ke liye bhi services ko aur apni app ke andar kuch options aise provide kiye hain jahan pe unke liye easy rahe. Toh humne apni app ki usage ko customers ke liye bahut convenient kar diya hai. We in fact were the first company jisne yeh 7 seconds aur even on holidays Pakistan mein bank transfers ki services provide ki aur jin companies ka aap zikr kar rahe hain inmein se bahut toh hamare baad se start huin aur yeh I don't think is speed pe toh I don't think koi karta hai to be very honest. Even I believe Wise and you guys can validate me on that. Wise bhi jo hai woh takreeban kuch ghante lagata hai ya ek din lagata hai. Ab kaafi companies ne start start ki hain services provide karna but aapko jo pioneer aur first mover benefit ya advantage rehta hai woh hamare saath aur dusra kyunke hamari physical presence bhi UK aur Europe mein thi toh ek physical presence ki wajah se ek authenticity aur brand image create karna within customers mindset woh hamare liye kaafi easy tha. People knew us. We have around 100 1.3 million customers who use Ace Money Transfer to send money across the globe. Last year we did around 1.2 billion of

and US dollars and international money transfer. Um, mujhe bataye ek ek ek dusri market Pakistan mein emerge kar rahi hai jab hum dollar pact ki baat karte hain, and that's the freelancers effectively, right? They're getting a lot of money and they're just sit people sitting in Pakistan. Um, aur unka my understanding is you guys are in the business of agar main isko simplify karun, you guys are in the business of moving money across country, right? Um, and so there is another huge audience jiska ek bahut massive pain point hai that they've been unable to gather that money. So client aata hai aur woh kehta hai ki yaar mujhe paise chahiye, toh woh hamesha phanse rehte hain. Abhi is tarah pehle woh Payoneer pe hota tha. Payoneer was super super expensive. Um, Pakistan mein particularly, yeh jo services, global services hain unka woh masla yeh aa jata hai ki you it's it's fairly difficult to koi problem ho jaye na, koi account block ho jaye, kuch yeh ho jaye woh ho jaye, toh unse coordinate karna, unse identify karna. Phir uske baad jaise jaise Pakistan ki situation up and down hoti hai toh these people are very very sort of conservative and then they block lock you out, right? So Wise ka yeh masla hua tha last month, last few months ago ki unhone bahar laga diya, unhone kaha ji 40,000 rupay se zyada hum transfer hi nahi karenge because you know unki accounting mein problem aa raha hai.

Uh basically I I do remember that particular thing aur usi time pe uh jo aap zikr kar rahe hain uske alawa bhi bahut saari companies aisi thi jinhone bahar lagayi. The the more problematic thing at that time was uh fluctuation of the Pakistani currencies against the US dollars. Right. Uh aur jis level ke upar uh changes aa rahi thi every day 5 to 10 rupees ka gap chal raha tha uh market ki opening mein aur closing mein aur din mein uh kabhi up ja rahi thi aur kabhi down market ja rahi thi toh is tarah ki volatile situation mein companies and even individual as well they used they love to safeguard themselves against these risks. Toh un risks ko mitigate karne ke liye companies uh apni normally kya karti hain ki uh risk level aur limit set karti hain. That would would have been for for a very small uh period of time jis dauran yeh services thi but uh at that time we uh didn't uh put any limit for our customers kyunke we knew hamare regular customers hain aur uh karwana hai unhone woh within uh experience treasury operations team we were able to foresee that sort of fluctuation in the market. Toh is wajah se humne un dino mein bhi kabhi koi limit nahi set ki apne customers ke liye. In fact, we are one of those companies who claim ke hamare customers ke liye koi limit nahi hai. If if even if you want to send million of of dollars through our pounds, through Ace Money Transfer, you can send.

Makes sense. But that's what I'm saying ke jo for for for for freelancers um do you have a service or do you think you will eventually create a service? Uh kyunke freelancers mein thoda sa problem yeh hai ke unko do cheezein unke use cases do hain. Pehla unko yeh chahiye ke paisa drop ho jo ke aapka remittance wale ka nahi hai. Uska bank account hoga, uske paas cash hoga, uske paas kuch hoga. Aur dusra hai moving that money to Pakistan, right? Um, tell me a little bit about comment on that ke either maybe you can begin to then um um partner with let's say services like Wise or Payoneer or whatever jo ke woh kar rahe hain and then manage their transfer uh in a in a in a fluent and and more way. Yeh kya scene hai iska?

We are we are working on a model uh similar to what you have said ke hum jo uh ek market jo freelancers ki market hai isko tap karne ke liye in customers ki life ko easy easy karne ke liye in users ki uske liye bhi hum apni products ko leke aa rahe hain lekin isme kyunke again two legs hain uh woh leg jahan pe woh paise wahan pe drop kar sake uske liye for instance uh humne UK mein as a Ace group of companies ke under Ace Union is one of our products. Right. Jo wallet accounts hain UK mein jinko jo UK mein rehne wale log hain woh wallet account open kar sakte hain. They they would have a sort code account number IBAN with them jisme woh paise receive bhi kar sakte hain aur usi paise se they would provide it with a debit card. Toh us debit card ko use karte hue woh kahin bhi transfer kar sakte hain ya send kar sakte hain. Lekin again uh referring back to to individuals from Pakistan kyunke hum un markets mein se services de rahe hain jahan pe pe senders reside karte hain. European Union mein, Australia mein, Switzerland mein, Canada mein, UK mein. Toh individuals who work there, we provide services to them. These are the individuals who would rather live in receiving countries jaise ke Pakistan mein. Toh hum inke liye koi product is tarah ki future mein hum plan kar rahe hain ke koi is tarah ki ease of remittances ho jo inko easy uh to receive money in Pakistan ho.

Makes sense. Um, tell me about remittances historically. Agar mujhe thoda sa aap batayein ke Pakistan mein um pehla toh yeh ke paisa transfer hota kis tarah tha? Channel uh sort of white channels mein yeh kab aana shuru hua? Amounts kis tarike se? If you can give me a an overview uh ke pichle let's say 30 years mein kyunke to be very honest, I mean uh early 2000s se pehle ka toh I don't know a lot of scope. Meri jitni logon se baat bhi hui, bade pockets mein log the. It was really after you know the boom jo yeh uh Middle East ka aaya, Europe bahut zyada log gaye uh early 2000s ke andar aur khas kar war on terror ki wajah se bhi ek sort of woh aana shuru hua, flow aana shuru hua. Um aur phir uske baad humne dekha ke you know with FATF and all of that toh woh white channel push bhi hua thoda sa. Um toh how did the numbers change um and then aane wale waqt mein aap isko kis tarah se dekh rahe hain? Isme particularly main do cheezein add karunga ke 2012 mein maine ek article padha tha jisme unhone kaha tha ke ji 2000 uh 2012 ka jo us waqt number chal raha tha koi 10, 11, 12 arab dollar ka aur unhone project kiya tha ke yeh 30 billion dollar tak ja sakta hai if we can just sort of uh whiten it, right? Uh phir isi tarike se 2018 mein bhi maine yeh padha aur usme phir humne dekha ke ek ek sudden push aayi from the State Bank and we were able to reach that 30 billion dollar mark. Um so do you think today we are actually at a at a point where most of it is coming through uh white channels ya iska further potential hai jo ke hum actualize hi nahi kar rahe?

Uh I would first come to your uh further potential thing toh obviously around uh 80% of the remittances that come to Pakistan isi ka 80% jo abhi 2021 mein aapne dekha uh around uh remittances that we received in Pakistan through legal channels that was around 31. uh 2 billion dollars uh aur 2022 mein it was around 29 uh billion dollars. Ab 2023 mein we are expecting around 24 to 25 billion dollar. There is a drop in in remittances. Right. Ab itni hi remittance, takreeban iska 80% aapki illicit means se bhi aati hain. Right. Uh one of the reasons uh not the only reason but one of the reasons contributory aapko illicit means ki taraf logon ko jo legal channel se bhjwa sakte hain amounts lekin woh bhi would prefer to send through illegal means uh is the difference between the open market rates and interbank rates in Pakistan. Jaise ke aaj ki example lein toh around 286.5 is the interbank rate and open market is around 300 299.5. Open market is a 13 rupees gap. Toh jisne 1000 dollar agar Pakistan bhejna hai toh woh 1 lakh 30,000 rupay toh ka nahi 13,000 rupay ka farq aa raha hai. 13,000 rupees additional milenge agar woh wahan par koi person aane wala hai uske haath 2-3,000 dollar bhej deta hai aur woh yahan pe aake open market mein usko exchange karta hai. Right. It would make him more money. Toh agar 5,000 karna hai toh it would make 65,000 rupees. Right. Toh yeh ek uh one of the reasons hain hain ke woh in these days jo uh humne recently dekha ke pichle 4-5 months se jis tarah se gap uh interbank aur open market mein expand ho raha hai uski wajah se legal remittances kafi drop hoti ja rahi hain aur Woh gap generally kyun aata hai? Why do you think so? So basically uh demand and supply pe depend karta hai ke open market mein agar aap aaj bhi dekhenge toh aapke paas rate toh available hai lekin aap open market mein jab dollars lene jayenge toh aapko na hone ke barabar bahut selected aapko options honge aap jahan pe aap dollars ya foreign currencies le sakein. Toh foreign currency ki demand aapke paas majood hai lekin uski supply kam hai. Uh supply kam hone ki wajah se obviously rates increase karte hain but these need to be controlled. So so but banks mein bhi toh I my understanding is ke same demand hogi na ya demand ka tail hui hai is time ke upar ya banks ne control kiya hua hai dollar? Uh banks obviously they work under uh the central bank's uh guidance guidance as well. Open market mein bhi central bank ki guidance hoti hai but at times uh demand and supply may dictate things otherwise lekin uh central bank mein jis tarah se guidance hai bank se related aur interbank se related very controlled market hai jisme aapko control karna thoda zyada easy rehta hai. Hmm. Toh demand wahan par bhi hai aapne dekha hoga uh previously aaj se kuch arsa pehle ki baat hai ke interbank mein bhi rates bahut zyada fluctuate kiye the jiski wajah se central bank ne yani State Bank of Pakistan ne banks ko fines bhi kiya hai. Hmm. Toh obviously ab banks being those organizations uh massive capital investment, massive people investment aur highly stringent regulatory requirements toh unke apne controls bhi bade strong hote hain jisko woh manage kar rahe hote hain as compared to uh open market money brokers. That gives them a better opportunity to control. Ab uh jaise aapne zikr kiya jo aap coming back to to remittances jis tarah se start hui aur pehle se leke ab tak ka safar agar uh if you remember aaj se uh for 30-40 years back ki aapne 2011-12 ka zikr kiya toh 2000 se pehle ki taraf agar chale jayein toh 30-40 years back remittances would work in a different way. Hmm. Uh jin logon ke kuch relatives mulk se bahar the toh woh wait kar rahe hote the ke kisi unke janne wale ko unke padosi ko unke mohalle ko ya jis bande ko woh jante hain uh usko kab chutti milegi ya usne kab ghar jana hai uske haath paise bhjwaye jayenge. Phir woh paise leke aata tha woh leke aayega road infrastructure, gaon tak pahunchne mein is tarah se bhi uh itni uh aapki communication aur transportation ke channels aise nahi the. Normally letter likh ke ya gaon ke kisi ek ghar mein call karke bulaya jata tha apne family members ko. Har ghar mein toh telephone ki sahulat bhi nahi thi. Toh woh un gharon mein jayenge, pahunchenge aur ke Sunday ko flaan din flaan uh time pe main call karunga, flaan ghar mein aaiyega. Usmein bataya jayega ke hamare flaan mamu ka beta ya flaan chacha ka beta ya hamare mohalle mein ya gali mein ya flaan gaon ka flaan person is din ko Pakistan aa raha hai, itni flight hai. Uske haath mein 1000 pound ya 2000 pound bhjwa raha hoon toh woh aapne receive kar dene hain. Ab us person ki flight aani hai, us us din ko phir usne gaon pahunchna hai, gaon pahunchne ke baad pehle usne toh rishtedaron se milna hai. Rishtedaron ko milne ke baad shayad ek week, do week ke baad uh woh person unke ghar pahunchenge aake paise lenge. Toh it was around at least 30 days cycle aaj se 30-40 years back. Right. Jab remittances is tarah se thi. Banking channels tab bhi the tab bhi uh aaj bhi banking channel normally international wire transfer might take from 24 to 48 hours to receive money internationally. Uh we jo as a company jo Ace Money Transfer we guarantee 7 seconds of money transfer because we ismein hum kya karte hain humne with the with the technology emergence of technology ab har person ke haath mein technology hai. Mobile phone hai. Aapne just app ko open karna hai. Apne debit ya credit card se pay karna hai. Hamein batana hai ke kis bande ko aapne pay karna hai, uski account detail dalni hai. 7 seconds mein Pakistan mein uske bank account mein paise receive ho chuke honge. Debit credit card uh primarily uh jo abhi backed by Mastercard and uh Visa uske through aapki seconds mein transaction process hoti hain jinke through hum jaisi companies like Ace Money Transfer ko amounts receive hoti hain from customers. Uske baad uh we normally pre-fund our accounts in Pakistan. Hamare account mein pehle se hi paise available hote hain. Toh irrespective ke aapke paise hamein kab milenge hum jaise hi hamein confirmation aati hai ke aapne transaction hamare system pe laga di, hamari mobile app ko use karke hamein paise baad mein milte rahenge hum aapke paise 7 seconds mein available kar lete hain. Achha interesting. Uh through uh hamari Pakistani banks ke sath jo technology ki integrations hain unke through hum bank ko message forward kar dete hain within second ke account number this this this needs to be credited by rupees uh 50,000 and uh within a second that goes through interbank fund transfer system and account gets credited. Interesting. Um Is there any fee attached to your service or other services for that matter? Ke main agar 100 dollar transfer kar raha hoon uh toh kya woh aise hoga ke jaise agar main wire transfer karun if my understanding is correct toh usmein woh ek 20-30 dollar ki ek fee charge hoti hai uh on both sides receiver and sender end woh bank charge karte hain. Um is there a fee for you as well when you send to specifically to Pakistan? Agar aap Pakistan mein Ace Money Transfer ke through paise bhej rahe hain aur agar aap 100 dollars se zyada ki amount bhej rahe hain, it's absolutely free. Right. By the time you would be creating transaction, aapko aapki mobile app mein nazar aa raha hoga ke aap kitne paise bhej rahe hain, uske against aapke receiver ko Pakistan mein kitne rupees milenge aur uske upar koi uh kisi qisam ke charges nahi hain. But if you are sending less than 100 dollars, 100 dollar se kam ki amount bhej rahe hain toh ek nominal si fee hai around 3 pound that we charge to the customers aur again time is same 7 seconds aapki amount Pakistan mein receive ho jati hain. Right. Um How do you make money then? Because my understanding is ke obviously that fee is required, right? Toh woh toh agar aap woh sara paisa jo hai woh free of free of charge aage kar rahe hain, how do you end up making money? So basically for remittances to Pakistan yeh main zikr kar raha hoon waise hum internationally bhi hum uh hamari jo normal fees hain as compared to all other companies that you have referred hamari fees bahut kam hain. Hmm. We have to compete in the market aur hum zyada se zyada hamari koshish yeh hoti hai ke customers ko zyada se zyada benefits aur facilities provide karein. Uh obviously one happy customer, one loyal customer brings another 10 customers. So rather than making 10 pounds from one customer, we can make 1 pound from 10 customers. Right. We work on this this philosophy. Lekin Pakistan ke case mein uh kyunke Pakistan mein hamari services jo hain woh uh through regulated channels ki ke hain aur uh sirf banks ke through Pakistan mein hum pay out karte hain aur banks under uh Central Bank of Pakistan's guidelines uh hum ek initiative hai Ministry of Overseas Pakistanis, uh Ministry of Finance aur State Bank of Pakistan ka jiska naam hai PRI, Pakistan Remittance Initiative, jo basically Pakistan mein legal channels ke through money transfer ko promote karne ke liye yeh initiative liya gaya hai. Right. Taake overseas Pakistanis ko Pakistan mein paise bhejne ke liye ke liye convenience provide ki jaye. Ace Money Transfer jaise ke hamara naam ya hum hamara slogan hai ke hamara purpose hi fast, reliable, convenient, secure aur safe hai aur least costly toh hum isi motto ko inhi apni uh USPs ko saath lete hue Pakistan Remittance Initiative ke under remittances Pakistan mein provide karte hain. Is Pakistan Remittance Initiative ke under basically uh jo government of Pakistan hai yeh incentivise karti hai uh un Pakistani banks ko aur remittance operators ko like Ace Money Transfer to bring remittances to Pakistan. So agar aapki 100 dollar se upar ki remittance Pakistan mein aa rahi hai toh Central Bank would uh compensate you for not charging any fees from the customers. They would uh pay you uh 20 Saudi Riyals. Right. That would be in uh income of uh Pakistani banks and the remittance operators. Woh divide hoga dono mein manage their operating expenses because international money transfer having people to manage international money transfer uh regulating regulatory requirement isko bhi fulfill karna hai. These all things are associated with certain costs. Right. Toh un costs ko cover karne ke liye uh you need to have revenue sources as well. So if we are providing free services to the customers, so we are compensated by the Pakistan Remittance Initiative. Makes sense. Makes sense. Um for a lot of for a lot of consumers today, um jab woh khas kar baat karte hain money uh sending money back into Pakistan, aapne pehle zikr kiya differential bahut high hai. Pichle dino yeh 30 pe gaya hua tha. Um they don't find any utility in using um regulated uh you know channels. Achha pehle yeh hota tha ke it was a no-brainer. Aapne paise bhejne hi hain, bank mein drop karwane hain, aap aaram se regulated tarike se bhejo. Uh regulated kya unko pata hi nahi hota tha. Woh main apps dekhte the woh generally regulated hote hain yeh saari. But now the differential is so high, people are getting very confused and they're like yaar kahin se mujhe zyada behtar rate mil sakta hai because yeh toh mujhe chuna lag raha hai ke 285 ka ek dollar hai aur 315 ka dusri taraf dollar hai, right? So um in your case, what would you say is is the benefit for the average consumer? Ke agar woh regulated channel istemal kar raha hai considering ke usko direct ek financial hit pad rahi hai um is space ko use karne pe? Uh obviously ek uh most of the people they make their decision based on the financial gains. Right. Toh isi financial gains ko dekhte hue bhi aap dekhenge ke as compared to last year jahan pe uh humne takreeban 29 billion ki Pakistan ki receipts thi lekin abhi tak jo 11 months ho chuke hain we are around 22 billion. Hmm. Toh ek month mein agar hum 2 and a half billion kyunke Eid ka month bhi aa raha hai toh agar aap 3 billion pe bhi chale jate hain toh you would be making around at ending up 25 25 billion. Toh It's 5 billion less. So basically 5 billion has moved to uh you know different reasons hain uh one of the reasons is uh jo interbank mein aur open market mein rate ke differences hain lekin other differences bhi hain. Economic slowdown globally economic global economic slowdown bhi hai aur Pakistan mein basically stability bhi hai. Uh financial aur economic aur political stability bhi bada contribute karti hai foreign remittances ke liye. Right. But in terms of regulator, so my original question was ke what do you think is the benefit of of using regulated channels versus under

regulated. For example, jisne bhejna hai, bhejna hai. Usne qurbani ke liye bhejna hai paisa ya ghar walon ke kharche ke liye bhejna hai. Um, why would he use jo illegal channels hain ya illicit channels hain, they can't guarantee you delivery of money. Individual persons ki guarantee hoti hai, jis hundi hawala mein, zuban ki baat hoti hai, lekin aapke paas koi documented channel ya koi aisa way out nahi hai, ya aisa course of action nahi hai, legal course of action jisse aap apni amounts claim kar sakenge. Once it lost, it's lost. Kyunki kyunki yeh illegal hai. Then again, it's a crime. If you are sending your money illegally, you are committing a crime. Crime against the laws of that country, jis country mein aap rehte hain. Crime against the laws of that country, jis country mein aap paise bhej rahe hain. So, it's it's a crime as well. Aur dusra jo regulated channels hain like Ace Money Transfer, jo hum services provide karte hain, we operate through banks. Hamare hum proper regulated organizations hain, jinke peeche regulators hain aur regulatory requirements hain hamare upar. Aur one of the regulatory requirements jo bahut saare logon ko nahi pata hoti ya customers ko nahi idea hoga, is Ace Money Transfer ke hawalay se main batata chalu, ke hamare jitne customers hain UK mein ya Europe mein, unki jitni remittances hoti hain aur woh Pakistan mein, India mein, Bangladesh mein ya duniya ke kisi bhi mulk mein hamare through paise bhejte hain, by law we have to safeguard that money. We have to keep that money in a separate bank account until and unless that money has been paid to the recipient of the money transfer. Aur woh jo account hai, woh jo hamare regulations humein require karti hain, ke us account ki access bhi bade limited persons ko honi chahiye. Aur us account mein paise, woh equivalent to the money jo aapne aage deliver karni hai, utne paise us account mein pade hone chahiye tab tak, jab tak amount actual recipient ko pay nahi ho jaati. Jab aapki amount, utni amount aapki recipient ko pay ho gayi, tab aap us money ko move kar sakte hain us account se. Toh woh safeguarding account hota hai. Yeh particular type of accounts hote hain jo banks ke saath open karne padte hain. Right. In UK and Europe, you cannot have a license of money transfer operation, operate as a money transfer operator until and unless you have such type of account with a with a bank. Aapke paas ya toh account hoga ya aapke paas koi bank ki guarantee hogi ke bank would guarantee you this much of account ya aapko itni amount insure karni padegi. So, in all cases, customer ki amount safe rehti hai. So, they can claim legal channels hain unke paas claim ke liye. Ek toh companies ko directly approach kar sakte hain, jis tarah se hum as a company hamari one of the unique thing is that we provide services to the to the customers, not only customers in UK, Europe, we provide services to the recipients of money transfer in Pakistan and Bangladesh as well. Jo log hamare through paise bhejte hain, hum recipients of money transfer ke saath bhi interact karte hain ke sir aapko paise receive ho gaye hain, receive hone mein koi problem aati hai, toh hum customers ke saath interact interact karte hain, customers ko woh money transfer jo ki amount hai, usko pay karwane mein help out kar rahe hote hain. Kisi ko agar koi bank ki branch kareeb hi nahi mil rahi, toh hum unko call karte hue recipient ko hum unko guide karte hain ke aapke itne faasle ke upar bank hai, aap is bank se jaake receive kar sakte hain, aap is branch se receive kar sakte hain, aapke is account mein amount credit ho gayi hai. Toh hum recipient ke saath bhi in touch rehte hain, not only with senders. Interesting. Um, aapki amount jo receive ho rahi hai, woh banks ke through ho rahi hai? Um, ya do you have like Western Union, na shop khuli hoti hai, usme paise aa ja rahe hote hain? Uh, nahi hum hamari amounts jitni bhi ab Pakistan mein receive ho rahi hain, yeh hamare paas jo mediums hain, jo overseas Pakistanis hain, woh four different options use kar sakte hain for their recipients in Pakistan. Number one, they can either send money to their bank accounts. Pakistan mein unke bank accounts mein paise bhej sakte hain. Uske baad Pakistan mein mobile wallet accounts mein paise bhej sakte hain, jaise ke aapko aaj kal idea hai, JazzCash, SadaPay, Nayapay, aur EasyPaisa. Is tarah ke mobile wallet accounts mein bhi paise bheje ja sakte hain. Uske alawa Pakistan mein top all banks, including Bank Al Habib, jitni bhi inki branches hain, unse paise receive kar sakte hain. Iske alawa hum ek aur option apne customer ko dete hain, jo overseas Pakistanis, Pakistani apna koi mobile number top up karna chahe, woh bhi kar sakta hai aur uske saath saath overseas Pakistanis ke liye ek badi important service hai hamari jo bill payment ki hai. Woh log jo UK, Europe mein hain, woh wahan par baithe hue hamari service ko use karte hue apne gharon ka bijli ka aur gas ka bill bhi pay kar sakte hain. Toh hum yeh service bhi provide kar rahe hain. Aur yeh aapki app ke through hi ho jaati hai? Yeh sab hamari app ke through hota hai. Bank Al Habib ka, I was particularly checking out, you guys have posters here and there, there's a partnership there happening. What's what's what's that? Basically, yeh VN jo maine aapse zikr kiya, Pakistan Remittance Initiative ka VN hai to facilitate customers aur customers ko basically educate karne ke liye aur inform karne ke liye for using legal channels for remittance. Bank Al Habib ke saath Ace Money Transfer ki collaboration hai, jo humne start ki 1st April se. It's a three months campaign. Purpose iska jo hum normally bhi naara ek lagate hain ke hundi se inkaar, Pakistan se pyaar. Toh yeh usi silsile ki ek kadi hai, jo Bank Al Habib aur Ace Money Transfer legal channels ke through Pakistan mein remittance ko promote karne ke liye awareness campaign chala rahe hain. Is campaign mein hum basically incentivise kar rahe hain apne customers ko through lucky draws ke jo person UK se, Europe se, Australia se, Canada se, Switzerland se jo log Ace Money Transfer ki mobile app ya Ace Money Transfer ki website ke through paise bhejenge Pakistan mein aur Pakistan mein Bank Al Habib ke kisi bhi account mein woh paise receive karte hain ya Bank Al Habib ki Pakistan mein takreeban 1050 se zaid branches hain, all across Pakistan, aapko har city mein Bank Al Habib ki branches nazar aayengi. Aur Bank Al Habib ki kisi bhi branch se agar woh cash ki surat mein receive karte hain, in dono cases mein, they would qualify for a lucky draw. Right. Iske liye koi separate koi kisi ne apna naam enter nahi karna, sirf unhone Ace se paise bhejne hain, Bank Al Habib se receive karne hain, they will automatically get qualified for a lucky draw. Aur daily ki basis ke upar ek lucky draw hai. Hum weekly lucky draw karte hain, har roz ka ek winner. So, week ke baad hum seven winners announce karte hain, jo Bank Al Habib aur Ace Money Transfer joint ek lucky draw ka session hota hai, jismein poore week ke hum lucky draw mein winners announce karte hain aur daily basis ke upar jo winner hai, har roz ek person 1 lakh rupaya jeet raha hota hai. Interesting. Ek 1 lakh ka prize hai aur iske saath saath kyunki yeh three months ki campaign hai, isi dauran ek Eid-ul-Fitr bhi hai, woh ho chuki hai aur ek Eid-ul-Adha bhi aani hai. Toh in dono eidon ke upar ek-ek grand prize hai hamare paas, bumper prize, jo ke ek-ek crore rupaye ka hai. Toh choti Eid ka jo Eid-ul-Fitr ka jo 1 crore ka prize tha, uska draw ho chuka hai. Woh 1 crore ka lucky winner nikal aaya hua hai. Achha. Aur badi Eid ab aamad aamad hai. It would be like 25 days. 25 days, absolutely. Toh uske baad phir woh bhi draw hona hai aur ek aur 1 crore ka winner, inshaAllah hum announce kar rahe honge. Toh yeh ceremony hum kar rahe honge takreeban July mein. Mid of July mein Bank Al Habib aur Ace will host all winners, jahan pe unko yeh amounts, ek-ek crore ki amounts hand over ki jayengi. Kuch jo 1 lakh ke jo winners already ho chuke hain, unki humne kuch ceremonies ki hain local branches mein Bank Al Habib mein jahan pe humne logon ko hand over kiye hain checks, ek-ek lakh ke. Toh baaki jo near to end hongi, toh hum unko apni us ceremony mein invite karenge aur us ceremony mein hum Ace aur Bank Al Habib as a host will hand over the checks. Toh yeh hamari campaign thi, jismein 90 prizes hain 1 lakh ke aur do prizes hain ek-ek crore rupaye ke. And we do this for awareness of the people, ke logon ko hum yeh bata sakein ke legal channels hain kya remittances ke, legal channels kis tarah se country ki economy mein impact karte hain, kis tarah se Pakistan ki economy ke liye positive kirdar ada karte hain. Overseas Pakistanis ka pyaar Pakistan ke liye kisi se chupa hua hai nahi. Waise bhi jo watan se door hai, mulk se door hai, usko thoda sa zyada feel hota hai. Pakistan, Pakistan ka khayal zyada aata hai. Toh unhi overseas Pakistanis ke liye hum yeh ek awareness campaign kar rahe hain ke jahan pe woh Pakistan ka khayal karte hain, Pakistan ke saath apna pyaar karte hain, toh woh apni hard-earned money isko bhi illegal channels ke bajaye legal channels ke through bhejein. Yeh ek choti si effort hai jismein hum awareness ke saath-saath incentivise kar rahe hote hain taake yeh message zyada se zyada logon tak pahunch sake. Right kar sakein. Mujhe ek baat yeh bataiyega, um, jo aapki um amount transfer ho rahi hoti hai, is the sender aware of the amount that the receiver is going to get? So, rate jo hai woh nazar aa jaata hai usi waqt ke upar ke yaar is waqt yeh rate chal raha hai aur is rate pe transfer hoga? Absolutely. Basically, jis time ke upar individual koi bhi UK se ya Europe se kahin se bhi hamare through transaction lagata hai, toh usko transaction lagane se pehle bhi pata hota hai ke rate yeh hai. Woh transaction jab lagayega, hamare through paise bhejega, he would select ke 50 pound bhejne hain, 100 bhejna hai, 200 pound bhejna hai ya 1000 euro bhejna hai. Woh apni currency select karega toh usko woh rate usko toh pehle se nazar aa raha hoga, rate ke saath usko amount bhi nazar aani shuru ho jayegi ke itni yeh is rate ke upar itne Pakistani rupees banenge. Toh exactly wohi Pakistani rupees uska recipient yahan pe jaake bank se le sakta hai ya woh uske bank account mein utni amount transfer kar sakta hai. Make sense. Aur aur dusra mujhe yeh bataiyega ke um US aapne nahi mention kiya multiple times. Are you planning on going there? And if yes, what's the timeline for that? Hum initial phases mein hain US mein ke license se related. Hum US mein humne apni company register karwa di hui hai. Hamare consultants ke saath milke hum wahan pe license ki application put forward kar rahe hain. Normally money transfer ke jo licensing jo aapne earlier question pucha tha regarding ke benefits kya hain, toh jo woh jo safety aur safeguarding of clients hain, usmein se ek reason yeh bhi hai ke we have to go through very stringent regulations and very stringent documentation requirements to get a license. Toh abhi hum US ke regulators ke paas apni application humne hum submit kar rahe hain ke wahan pe bhi humein license diya jaaye, ke wahan ke bhi jo overseas hamare Pakistani hain ya jitne bhi expats hain jo apne mulkon mein paise bhejte hain, unke liye bhi hamari services US se available ho. Toh normally koi bhi money transfer ka license apply karna US mein ya European Union mein, minimum period of this is minimum at the minimum 12 months hai. But it may take up to two years as well, but minimum time period is 12 months. Make sense. And Middle East? Middle East would be something that we would look forward to. First phase mein basically we as a company were into the UK and European market, then we went into the Australian market, then now into the American market, jismein US hai. Uske baad next phase mein we are planning to Middle East as well, jismein Because that's a huge market for Pakistan particularly. UAE bahut badi market hai agar aap dekhein bhi, toh around jis tarah se aapne bhi zikr kiya ke more than 10 million Pakistanis overseas hain aur in 10 million ka 55% is in Middle East, jismein aapko countries like UAE, Saudi, Bahrain, Kuwait, Oman, yeh 6-7 countries mein around 55% overseas Pakistanis hain. Toh yeh huge market zaroor hai aur hum inshaAllah very very soon is market ko bhi tap kar rahe honge. Basically abhi ke time pe hamari services hain jo UK aur Europe mein log rehte hain, Australia ya Canada mein, woh apne paise UAE bhej sakte hain hamare zariye. UAE se bhejne ke liye bhi bahut jaldi hum services inshaAllah start kar rahe honge. Make sense. Mujhe I'm going to wrap this up at the 57-minute mark. Main thoda sa segment ek chota sa karunga change. Mujhe yeh batayein ke yeh toh saari ek aapne mujhe pura scope bataya of you know foreign currency, different currencies moving around in the global system. Aapne kaha aap takreeban 24 markets se 28 markets 28 markets se aap takreeban 106 different markets mein paisa move kar rahe hain is time ke upar. Nigeria ke saath you know you you aapne woh off-camera bataya tha ke wahan par you were you guys are talking to the regulators there as well ke kya chal raha hai in terms of their financial. Woh India mein aap karte hain, Bangladesh mein karte hain. It's a huge system. But isi system ka na ek alternate bhi aana shuru ho gaya hai jismein jo yeh regulation hai woh over-regulation logon ne feel karna shuru kar di hai and which is one of the reasons why we're now beginning to hear about an alternate financial system jo ke bahut zyada popularize hua pichle kuch saalon mein jismein cryptocurrencies thin, jismein you know yeh aapki blockchain based yeh saara ka saara the inherent idea was free flow of capital without having to go through these different different financial institutions and yeh woh. Achha usmein do uske elements the. Ek toh technology ka element tha ke ji you know how do you integrate blockchain technologies and is tarah ki technologies to instantaneously be able to transfer funds instead of constantly waiting. Um aur dusra transparency ka and privacy ka element tha ke ji hum jo hai woh we want to stay outside of this this crazy regulated environment and you know woh aaj kal ek privacy wale log bahut zyada aana shuru ho gaye hain. Isi ke counter mein jo khas kar technology ka element tha, uske counter mein phir humne sunna shuru kar diya CBDCs ka ke ji ab CBDCs aana shuru ho jayengi aur woh jo hai woh technology wohi istemal karengi ya usse zyada optimize karke. So the element of instantaneousness basically woh clear hona shuru ho gaya ke future mein humein nazar aayega ke it's not woh jo purane waqton mein jis tarah hota tha ke yaar kashti mein dala aur phir move kiya. Toh ab woh aapka saara ka saara jo hai na digital to digital ho raha hai and again like you mentioned ke Nigeria is is hoping to launch a digital currency, I'm assuming. They have in fact launched the digital currency, eNaira ke naam se. Nigeria ki currency is Naira. Right. Aur hum jo the thing that I was referring ke yesterday we had had a meeting with Central Bank of Nigeria as well where Central Bank of Nigeria mentioned that within a period of 2 to 3 weeks they would be allowing money transfer operators to transfer money to Nigeria via eNaira. Initially aaj se takreeban 5 saal pehle tak Nigeria used to provide services in Naira to customers lekin with the passage of time Nigeria ka bhi yeh jo aap parallel market aur jiska zikr kar rahe hain, yeh wahan par bhi bahut zyada dominant hai. Toh usmein bhi their government had to take steps, their Central Bank aur unhone Naira ke andar remittances ko illegal consider kiya ke ab aap Nigeria ki jo national currency hai Naira, usmein remittance nahi kar sakte hain. Nigeria mein so jo log UK se, Europe se ya kisi bhi other country se Nigeria paise bhej rahe hain, woh Nigeria ke andar US dollars mein pay hongi. Jiske saath bahut saare challenges bhi aaye. Challenges mein kyunki woh dollar har jagah pe available nahi hai, har branch mein physical cash nahi available hai. Toh bahut saare challenges bhi the lekin it worked for like since 2020 se onwards 2 years tak raha. 2 years mein jo bahut saari companies aisi thin jo abhi tak karti rahin Naira mein bhi aur illegal means ke through bhi karti rahin. They had made multi-millions out of it but obviously it was an illegal activity. Ab woh eNaira ki taraf ja rahe hain. Ab jo Nigerian government and Central Bank of Nigeria woh kaafi arse se ek alternate currency koshish kar raha tha isko launch karne ke liye. They started eNaira. Aaj se takreeban 6-8 months back they started eNaira. Ab usko thoda sa aur stable karne ke liye, uski market ko expand karne ke liye, now they yesterday they had a meeting jismein unhone announce kiya ke they would be allowing remittances to Nigeria in eNaira along with the US dollars. So US dollars was one, now eNaira. Toh hopefully in 2 to 3 months. Jo jo dusra aapne question kiya tha ke world ki markets is taraf move kar rahi hain digital currency ki taraf, but that eNaira that I am referring to is equivalent to one Naira but it's it's digital. Right. So woh CBDC, Central Bank digital currency. So Central Bank back and jo cryptocurrencies hain, they they would come come into effect. Hum shayad bahut zyada wait nahi karna padega bahut bahut jald. But it might take little too much time for countries like Pakistan jahan pe infrastructure ki aur communication ke channels ko abhi kaafi grow karna padega and then kuch regulatory requirements ko us tarah se grow karne ke liye controls bhi bade important hain. In inke zariye Pakistan jaisi economy ke liye. So it might take a little time for us aur kyunki hamari itni zyada population ko utna zyada exposure hai nahi cryptocurrencies se related, in saari cheezon se related toh woh thoda sa time zyada lenge. Lekin kuch jo developed economies hain, they might wahan pe toh regulations already kuch ban chuki hui hain, kuch jin countries mein within European Union bhi they are adopting to certain regulations jahan pe woh cryptocurrencies ki trading aur yeh saari allow kar rahe ho. Aur remittance mein in the future cryptocurrencies would definitely play a very important role as long as these are regulated. We do not see ke financial ya koi bhi aisi cheez unregulated would be a very positive thing for for the economy of the world. If there are no rules and no regulations, the world would be something different. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Sir, thank you so much for coming in and sharing all that insight. Main ek sawaal puchunga aapse, generally main tamam guests se puchta hoon. How do you see Pakistan 27 years from now in 2050? Knowing what you know now, seeing what you've seen throughout your life. I know that you travel to the UK very often and zahir hai ke aapne historically dekha bhi hai ke again main remittance ki hi agar baat karoon toh jis tarike se, theek hai we have a blip here. Woh 29 se 25 ho gayi, halaat thode se aaj kal up and down hain. Pakistan mein halaat down bhi hote hain, wapas up bhi aa jaate hain. But overall what we're seeing now is that we're seeing a bigger sort of exodus of people. from Pakistan out to other countries, more often than not, puri puri families nahi jati, so there is always that connectivity to Pakistan and that money then does end up coming back to Pakistan. Aapne ek number diya ke close to 50 billion dollars worth of remittance Pakistan mein exist karti hai aaj. Aaj se shayad 5 saal baad yeh badh ke, you know, 70 billion, 100 billion pe bhi ja sakti hai. Which inherently means that there is a large amount of money coming into Pakistan and that is going to impact the local economy as well. How do you see Pakistan 17 years from now, 27 years from now, you know, keeping all of this in mind?

So, let's say 2050. Pakistan as a country has a huge potential. In every field, Pakistan has a huge potential. Only the thing that we need, being Pakistanis, to channelize that potential to the right direction. If we are able to bring in some some changes within our policies towards the economy, to stabilize the economy or infrastructure ki improvement provide karna to bring in foreign direct investment as well. Toh yeh toh abhi remittances aa rahi hain, jo annually abhi is saal 25 billion tak hongi. Abhi woh foreign direct investment bahut bada ek major role play kar sakti hai Pakistan ki economy ki growth mein. Toh if we are able to channelize our our efforts towards the right direction, there is nothing that can stop Pakistan from being a developed country rather than being called as a developing country.

Makes sense. Thank you so much for coming and chilling all that. And for all of you guys, thank you so much for watching. Agar aapko yeh episode pasand aaya, toh apne doston aur rishtedaron ke saath zaroor share kariye ga. Neeche comment section mein mujhe aake bataye, do you send money to Pakistan? If yes, what service do you use? Have you used ACE Money Transfer? Do you like it? Do you dislike it? What are your comments on it? Let me know in the comment section below. Isi ke saath saath YouTube wale like ka button dabayenge, engagement badhegi, zyada logon tak hamari conversation pahunchegi aur yeh platform wale subscribe ka button dabayenge. Aane wali episodes ki aapko notification milegi. Yahan par kahin par EasyPaisa, JazzCash, SadaPay aa raha hoga if you'd like to support the channel. We accept anything from 1 rupee to as much as you'd like. It's the thought that counts. Isi ke saath neeche Stripe ki link hai for overseas Pakistanis if they'd like to support our channel and help us remain independent. We'd love your support. You can check out the link and and and you know, follow the instructions. But anyways, this was Muzamil Hussain Zaidi. You are watching Thought Behind Things. Thank you so much for watching and I'll see you in the next one.