Pakistan can add $9.8 billion to agri exports — without leaving home

राणु ख़वाद दीनों आज़रात welcome back to another episode of thought behind things. जैसा कि आपको पता है हमारी Endeavor Pakistan का series चल रही है आजकल where we're trying to find the 50 most exciting startups in Pakistan. उसमें से एक personally जो कि एक ऐसा area है जिसमें मैं बड़ा interested रहा हूं. Historically पूरी दुनिया में हम सुनते हैं कि यार आने वाले वक़्त के अंदर climate change की वजह से potentially food के बड़े मसले हो सकते हैं, food insecurity हो सकती है जिसकी वजह से बड़ी बड़ी major, you know, चीज़ें भी हो रही हैं. बहुत सारे जो richest of the world हैं they're going towards farmlands. बहुत सारी different countries जो हैं वह अपनी food security के लिए बहुत सारी different decisions भी ले रही हैं. हमें Middle East का पता है कि they're investing a lot in in their own food security as well. Excellent terrain all across, we actually have the opportunity to grow all sorts of different crops. उसके बावजूद हम import करते हैं. बहुत दफ़ा जितने भी experts हैं वह कहते हैं कि जी we have one of the worst yields जो कि, you know, जो amount of crops जो कि एक average farmland से निकलता है, वह हमारा बड़ा ख़राब है. उसके क्या वजह हाथ हैं? उसको भी आज तक हम properly समझ नहीं सके. अगर हम overall economy को देखते हैं तो around 23.5% of Pakistan's economy is connected directly to agriculture. Four to five billion dollars of exports come in from the agriculture sector. 37.4% of the workforce is part of the agriculture sector. So, essentially, one third of the entirety of Pakistan, which is a huge number, You know, fifth largest or sixth largest in the world, 250,000,000 people. उसमें से one third of the entire workforce is exclusively working in the agriculture sector. So यह बहुत एक important area है. Unfortunately, हम उसको ज़्यादा खाते में नहीं लाते, हम उसको seriously नहीं लेते और recently मैं एक देख रहा था HEC की report on हमारा जो graduate है वह किधर जाता है? उसमें IT भी नज़र आता है, उसमें humanities नज़र आते हैं, art, business, medicine यह सारा सारा हमें पता है. लेकिन out of around five to 600,000 enrolled students, less than 9,000 are in agriculture. जिससे आपको पता लगता है कि एक nation जिसकी one third workforce इसमें है और one fourth almost जो GDP है उसका हिस्सा agriculture है लेकिन उसमें इतने थोड़े लोग जो हैं वह actually उसमें pursue कर रहे हैं knowledge को, expand रहे हैं और figure out कर रहे हैं कि यार कैसे हम अपने agriculture sector को बेहतर कर सकते हैं. Thankfully, we've now begun to see कि कुछ startups ऐसी आई हैं जो कि finally इस area के अंदर, you know, innovation करना चाहती हैं. वह चाहते हैं कि इसको बेहतर किया जा सकता है, उस opportunity का फ़ायदा उठाया जा सकता है. And for that particular reason, we have with us two very special guests today. एक हमारे पास startup है which is basically working in this domain. They're doing a lot of exciting stuff. We'll we'll talk more about it. But we have जवाहरदासन who is the cofounder and CEO of Agri Lift. And उनके साथ हमारी हमने request किया तो हमारे पास एक उनके partner हैं. You know, recently उनके partner किया of a of a very big organization. You all know about it, FFC, which I I would like confirmation on that. I think it's the largest fertilizer producer in Pakistan, possibly in the maximum in the top three. सलार मलिक, who is the chief innovation officer at FFC. Despite the best efforts

of governments to move the world apart, entrepreneurs are bringing us closer together as we see innovation literally everywhere. The reason I love it never so much is you realize that you could create something anywhere.

Companies can also come, like, you know, from anywhere. Can come from Brazil. It can come from Mexico. It can come from Istanbul.

If you're ambitious, go to Europe, get the job, or to The US. But here you're mega ambitious. Stay home and build. This episode of Thought Behind Things is presented in partnership with Endeavor Pakistan.

जवाबद भाई मैं आपसे start करता हूं. Before we dive deep into the startup into what you guys are up to, I just wanna sort of understand a little bit about you. You know, अगर एक summarize तरीके से बता सकें, where were you born? Early life आपने कहां पर गुज़ारी? Education कहां पर ली? And what really compelled you to get into this particular domain? Because Pakistan में ना वह agree is the last thing. Everybody thinks even जो ज़मींदार का बेटा होता वह कहता है यार मैं कोई startup करूंगा. मैं कोई जो है ना product बना लूंगा software की. You know, फंसले होंगे आना तो यह तो बिल्कुल फारा काम है. So what brought you full circle and you decided कि यार, you know, I I need to go back into the roots of what Pakistan, what drives Pakistan? So, I'm a proud किराचीite

through and through. Did all my early schooling in कराची before like any other youngster 18 year old wants to move abroad. So I did my undergrad from The UK. उसके बाद then just before the cusp of the financial crisis in two thousand eight I moved to Dubai with PWC. वहां पर थोड़ा consultancy की, थोड़ा audit किया, थोड़ा transactions किए. फिर then got another opportunity to move back to Europe. Spent about another eight years there with a company called E and Y, Ernst and Young. उसमें काफी transactions का काम किया. Then finally within the within that consulting space got to a client where we set up the largest water utility in the country in Ireland and the high fast pace growth environment I took really well to it and like any other overseas पाक्सारी यह calling आती है ज़िंदगी में कि do you want to stay forever outside of Pakistan or is there any family ties which will push you back into Pakistan. Worked as the portfolio value creation manager, general manager across the group where the principal focus was to create value for the shareholders across the all the different group companies that we had at the time. One of the biggest assets in that company was a fertilizer company and I suppose the lack of a better word sorry for the irony but the seed was planted there because when we used to look at long term strategy when we used to look at where the business needs to go over the next ten, fifteen, twenty, thirty years everything used to boil down to farm economics. कोई भी चीज़ अगर बेचनी है farmer को या कोई business model खड़ा करना है farmer के around everything was around farm economics या farm economics don't support it. Farm economics don't support it, farmers don't have the money and so on and so forth and that got us thinking you know like if a business is struggling to develop a business model around the farm then what is the problem here? The problem is actually farm economics then. So that's where myself and मुराध who is my co founder got talking together. We started looking into the industry. Three major hypothesis हम लेकर चले थे. How can let's say data play a role in helping farm economics? Number one. Number two, how do we build a scalable business model? How do you help farmers to very simple, easy to understand layman's terms. सारी technology, all the fancy shiny tools in the backend but actually farmer को decision making में किस तरह aid करना है. Spent a few years doing research, looked at problems, built a solution around the problem and then the last year or so we validated the platform as well.

Interesting. And and my understanding is you guys are working. So, I mean, tell me a bit about, are you directly working with farmers, or are you working with partners who are then working with farmers? So are you is is it, like, a b to b b to b to b c sort of a situation here? Yeah, is it open for, I'm trying to understand the product here. Yeah. Macrobid मुझे समझ आ गई? Yeah, so they can by design we're a product company.

But the interesting part over here is that we're, when we started doing this and this is one of the reasons why we did it in Pakistan. There's not a single problem that doesn't exist in Pakistan especially when you talk about agriculture. You talk about climate shocks, you talk about outdated farming practices, you talk about counterfeit seed, you know, the list is long. Our go to model is a B2B model where we work with companies and partners that have an extensive farmer network. उस farmer network के through क्योंकि already जैसे players like FFC already have a trusted relationship with all the farmers in in the country. They recognize the brand. So that's the go to model for us where we work with farmers within that industry and at the same time we also work with agri businesses to help them increase productivity and also create that traceability angle for supply chain decision making. We do have a B2C leg as well but that's something that we haven't formally kicked off yet that's in the works But that will also happen as a B2B2C play.

Make make sense. And since you've mentioned FFC, सलार भाई, if I were to ask you थोड़ा सा, you know, introduce yourself, tell me a bit about how you came about doing this very interesting role, right? So, fertilizer company imagine होता है Pakistan में कि यार यह तो सबसे आसान तरीन business है. एक product है वह बनानी है और बेचनी है. Being a chief innovation officer there is a fairly interesting role and this partnership particularly Pakistan में historically यह imagine होता है कि you know जो जो बड़ा बड़ा बड़ी industry है उनका एक system चल रहा है. आसानी से चल रहा है. उनको ज़्यादा उसमें ख़ब डालने की ज़रूरत नहीं पड़ती. Basic चीज़ है नौकरी करें, घर जाएं. वह कराची वाले उनको सेठिया mentality कहते हैं. The idea that that, you know, a corporate would actually be open to a fresh entrant In terms of partnering for innovation, it's fascinating to me because that's not what a lot of startups tend to go through. And so tell me a bit about yourself. How did you end up at FFC? What have you been up to? And tell me a bit about the role and then the partnership के exactly हुई कैसी और exactly what does it entail?

Thank you very much. The the one thing that I've just listening to जवाब is common between us is I was also born in Karachi but that's it. Other than this we have nothing else in common. Though I was I was a military brat through and through. Travelled throughout the of course country while I was growing up but predominantly I am from a village. From a village near Fayslabad and my roots are still there. We've got lands there. So, have that very subtle connection to the lands if you will. I have never done farming myself. I was in the military for some time but then I left and it's been about six years that I joined FFC. I joined in a strategy role. So, in that I actually saw what you just mentioned the mindset of a giant. I mean, FFC believe it or not with about 4,300,000 tonnes of production capacity is the biggest fertilizer manufacturer in the country. So that mindset definitely exists but when when we were in strategy department and then from there of course we made this sustainability and innovation department और उसमें मैं move किया. तो वहां पर आकर the realization from the top management was हम लोगों की organization होती है it's called the IFA International Fertilizer Association और वहां पर ना I mean for the last hundred years जिस भी अभी हमारी fertilizer chemical fertilizer बननी शुरू हुई थी वह सारे players वहां पर हैं the big giants, you know the yaras and the nutrients and you know the mosaics of the world they attend that. So उनका experience यही रहा है कि you start from the commodity but then you have to sort of transition with the world the way the world is evolving और FFC में भी यह यह realization अब आ गई थी कि यह जो chemical fertilizer है हमारा which is well life and blood of of the you know agri sector हमारा जो urea और dap और you know potassium NPKs जो होती हैं. They have we have to move beyond this now. Why? Because like you in your very rightly in your intro also said कि हमारे पास Pakistan में जो productivity है per acre वह बहुत low है. In spite of priding ourselves कि जी हम बड़े agrarian हैं. हमने इस पर काम नहीं किया. So I think the realization at FFC was कि हम लोगों के पास the biggest that we are, हमारी ज़िम्मेदारी भी उतनी बड़ी है to improve this, the impact that the country is facing you know. तो हम लोगों ने जब उस पर explore start करना किया कि जी क्या क्या avenues हैं? कहां पर काम होने वाला है? तो जो farmer की बिल्कुल I think जवाब ने बिल्कुल hit the nail on the head कि जी farmer की जेब में जब तक liquidity नहीं होगी, we could make the best of the product you know अगर farmer के पास capacity नहीं है खरीदने की so that product is just going rely on the shelf it's never going to sell so that was the aim we said कि यार let's enable the farmer उसके पास पैसे आएं वह पैसे कैसे आऐंगे कि जब वो latest technology use करेगा. So the tech that I mean when we went out in the market and by chance actually जवाब then I you know connected and the connection was good. I actually appreciate these guys. They have done I think marvellous work in Kopikkiya and then the best thing about them was कि they were not thinking of making money actually. They were actually their point was to enable the farmer कि farmer पैसा बनाए और farmer जब पैसा बनाए तो obviously down the line everyone ends up making money. तो then that's why we picked them कि यह एक ऐसा ecosystem बना रहे थे जिसके through हमारा farmer Pakistan का बहुत benefit करेगा down the line. तो इनको pick किया and इसमें सिर्फ एक चीज़ improve नहीं हो सकती थी because यह पूरा farmer का जो lifestyle था through this data driven product जिसके बारे में आज believe जवाब will educate us more बात करेगा कि इसमें farmer की multiple points है पर हम उसको hit करें farmer को. तो वह उसकी काफी सारी input और output की side पर चीज़ें बेहतर हो रही हैं that way we thought कि यार we have a moral responsibility being the biggest in the country to be a part of this. तो this is just a starting point. Inshallah there'll be more to come.

Makes sense. सारा if I were to ask you, look, agriculture एक ऐसा ऐसी domain है. हर पाकिस्तानी का opinion उसके बारे में ज़रूर होता है. वह आकर बता देगा आपको यह गंदुम के साथ क्या चल रहा है और गपास का क्या मसला है और हमारी textile exports क्यों नहीं बढ़ रही? लेकिन in my experience I found people to be rarely properly educated about it, right? And काफ़ी दफा जो data हमारे drawing rooms में utilize हो रहा होता है वह hair shape होता है. किसी चाचू ने WhatsApp पर कुछ भेज दिया और वह एक data आ गया. So I wanna I wanna before I really jump into the conversation, for the benefit of the viewer, I would love if you guys can share some detailed macro picture कि exactly अगर आज मैं आपसे पूछूं कि agriculture sector है क्या? और numbers में उसके अंदर क्या like क्या scale है? क्या challenges हैं? क्या opportunities हैं? How would you sort of summarize that? Because my understanding is you would have access to a lot more accurate and authentic data that is much more up to date than what we tend to see online.

I think again a very valid point is data जो है ना data I mean everyone is talking about data ना और unfortunate बात यह है कि हमारा सबसे बड़ा weak point ही data है कि हमारे पास data ही नहीं है कि what is the exact picture? Yes I can coach you I mean Pakistan के surveys हैं there are third party surveys, there FAO का survey है वह कुछ और कहता है हमारा अपना survey कुछ और कहता है. The basic data आपको बताऊं जो starting point है. Starting point क्या है कि जी हमारे पास what is the land which is arable? I mean for any country for मैं अगर आपको बताऊं ना बस घर में दो गाड़ियां कितना petrol डालना है आपने तो you will say versus आपके घर में चार गाड़ियां में कितना petrol डालना है. So Pakistan में है कितना land जिसको कि यह स्वतकार्ष्ट किया जा रहा है. So the latest numbers that we have is about 52,300,000 acres की बात होती है कि this is the land जो अभी 25 का data हमारे पास समोजूद है. But take it with a pinch of salt I am telling you someone is gonna say कि no no no यह 48 है. And someone is gonna say no we are up to 55 now. तो वही आपके जो हो जाए uncles and with their tweets and all that so they will come up with also funny numbers but let's let's ok इसको round off कर लेते हैं 52 हम 50 कर लेते हैं कि 50,000,000 acres है Pakistan में जो हमारा अभी जो यह हमारा green initiative चल रहा है with this present government along with the military also they are supporting them big time. चोलिस्तान में we are trying to reclaim a lot of land जहां पर तो हमारा और भी vision है कि three to 5,000,000 acres इस 50 के अंदर add हो जाएगा. So from 50 या 52 से we'll be after about 50 five-fifty 7,000,000 acres पर हम चले जाएंगे. Now कहना तो यह बहुत साना and you might have seen Pakistan के अभी floods आए हुए हैं आजकल आजकल आजकल Perhaps we'll talk about that. But पानी is the life and blood of, you know, agriculture. तो आप land तो हम बढ़ा लेंगे then we have to manage water. So that is another challenge that we have हमारे बारह तेरह सौ million acre feet से हम लोग कितना पानी पर आ गए हैं हमारे ऊपर per capita water availability for agri is very very low. So that number has also come down. Now उसकी against now fertilizer manufacturing capacity. Pakistan is standing at about 6,500,000 tons of fertilizer that we you know हमारे जो बड़े players हैं us included we produce. उसको production कैसे होगी मज़ीद? I mean that's just one input that you have. So you have water. आपने उसका पानी लगाना है. आपके पास farm implements हैं. Farm implements पाक्षा ने बनते ही नहीं है. You know, we don't make quality stuff. I mean, we are importing everything. What do you mean by farm implements? Machinery की बात कर रहा हूं. I mean, machinery tractors हैं आपके, आपके harvesters हैं, threshers हैं and I mean दुनिया में तो और बड़ा कुछ हो रहा now drones which ज्वाद's company is now working with is I am telling you five years down the line drones will be a farm implement. It will be a necessity for farmers. I mean that is what and I'll ज्वाद to correct me. I'm pretty sure America में, Australia में, Europe में it's it's every farmer has one. You know that's how they are trying to sort of you know do the data collection for their own farms. So, so is यह भी Pakistan में buying capacity farmers के पास नहीं है. So, the scale is very big. Seeds is again जब आपने बात की थी and जवाबद was talking to you, seeds is another very big grey area in Pakistan. अभी Pakistan ने NSDRA बना दिया है National Seed Development and Regulatory Authority. It has just now this year been made. So we are hoping to have quality seed in Pakistan because again that's a starting point. आपके पास सही seed होगा तो which is going to multiply into the proper you know per month आपकी जो per acre per month की जो आपकी yield है वह उससे drive होगी. So you see there are so many multiples इसके अंदर हैं जो कि quantum में अगर आप बात करें कि इस 55,000,000 acre को आपने manage करना है which अगर आप Pakistan को आपने देखा हो Pakistan is North East to South West की हमारी alignment है which is which is generally followed that हमारे rivers का flow follow होता है and then हमने कुछ canals बना लिया उसके अंदर. So there is a lot of work that has to be done in water management, आपकी input management like fertilizer management, seed management. There's a lot of work in all these domains.

Makes sense. इसके ऊपर ना मेरी तकरीबन कोई दस से बारह podcasts हुई हैं on agriculture. And I'll I'll try to give a summary so that हम उस conversation को उधर से आगे ले जा सकें for again for the benefit of the viewer. जो मेरी understanding है from different guests उन्होंने मुझे जाकर बताया है. पहला उन्होंने कहा कि जी water we actually have a good amount of water. हमारा मसला storage करें हम और ज़्यादा हमारा मसला inefficiency करें कि out of the 100% of total water that we have, हम कहते हैं कि यार गाड़ियां ना धोएं, पौधों अपने gardens को पानी ना दें. Around eight, seven to 8% जो है वह consumer के पास जा रहा है. Around 12% जो है वह industries के पास जा रहा है और 80% आपकी agriculture ले जा रही है. जिसमें अगर हम Europe की industry को देंगे और तो ख़ैर बहुत आगे हैं उनकी सारी की सारी overall consumer class भी बहुत आगे हैं but they're using almost one fifth to one tenth of this water that we're using because they're using you know, बहुत सारी different innovative techniques use कर रहे Hydroponics पर चले गए. Aquaponics. You know, even tunnel farming, farming, repurrication. तो वह optimize कर चुके हैं उसको उस उस सारे process को. तो हमारा it's less of a of a problem of कि पानी है नहीं. It's more of a problem of कि हमने innovate ही नहीं किया and वहां पर directly जो अभी थोड़ी देर पहले बात भी हुई कि there is an economics problem in all of this. अब वह economics problem क्या food price control की वजह से है कि हमने इतना regulate कर दिया हुआ है industry को कि जिसकी वजह से in a lot of ways अगर मैं इसको macro देखूं तो हम अपने farmer को suck dry करते हैं ताकि हमारा शहरी जो है वह survive कर सके. Right? वह उसको शहरी को जो सस्ता अनाज मिल जाए लेकिन farmer बेचारा उस पर तबाह हो रहा है and that actually does not work out in the longer run because eventually उस शहरी को भी import ही करना पड़ेगा अगर आप सारे farmer को तबाह कर देंगे. तो the the the the flight of capital is actually from rural to urban rather than actually from urban to rural जहां पर rural innovate कर सके in a lot of ways. So there is that economic problem. Then interestingly I actually had a conversation with अब्दुर रज़ाक दाहुत साहब and he mentioned this was around a couple of years ago and he mentioned one of his sons is getting into the sort of, correct me if I'm wrong, बहुत उन्होंने surgery से mention किया था but he was getting into micro fertilizers और पता नहीं वह concept उसका thought sort of यह है कि जी base fertilizer से अब हम, you know, targeted उस पर जा रहे और अब आजकल वह बड़ा सारा कुछ आ गया कि satellite के through आप देख सकते हैं कि कौन सी जगह पर डालना तो आप actually with a lot of data collection you can target the right and relevant fertilizer. The reason why I'm mentioning this is because one gentleman on the on the show also mentioned that in a lot of ways, Pakistan is over fertilizing their fields, and they actually become defunct after a few years because वह इतना ज़्यादा उसको fertilize कर दिया होता है because farmer को इतना idea ही नहीं है, वह बस generic फेंकी जा रहा है और वह उसे वह निकल रहा है. So there's not a lot of, you know, optimization in terms of कि भाई actual में requirement है क्या? Weather का क्या उसका role है? Soil कैसी है? Soil तबाह हो चुकी है because of fertilizing and and and pesticides and वह सारा का सारा. So जब मैं जब मैंने बात की ना दस बारह लोगों से तो मैंने तो कहा यार यह तो यह तो नहीं solve होता. यह तो यह सच है crazy problem and this was last conversation I had was a year ago. Since then they've been great strides as you've mentioned. I'm glad that it's now in the mainstream. It seems like कि, you know, people from top to bottom, everybody's like, ok, let's solve this agri problem and that's exciting again. But यह मैंने आपको सारी बातें बताई. I'd love to know your opinion कि how much of that would you agree with? How much of that would you say कि ok, that's like a generic, again, drawing room statement. The the the actual अगर आप depth में जाएं तो शायद उसमें और facts भी हों. अच्छा, मैंने I'll I'll

pick up two things from what you just said. One is of course water availability versus use and second is the the you know over fertilization. Water pay देखें yes, we are not managing it well. We need to manage it a lot better. But यह तो bottom line है इसमें there is no argument on this. हम लोग अभी तक you know we are sort of using flood irrigation दुनिया में बहुत कम जगह पर है. I mean one of the highest producing countries is Holland but the point is कि they are not doing flood irrigation anymore because you see you waste a lot of water. You can't manage water x. You can't control water when you do flooding. लेकिन उसके साथ साथ it's a reality कि पानी हमारा ख़त्म हो रहा है. I mean इसमें कोई शक नहीं है. The per capita water availability is going down. So both things have to be managed. You have to you know be very careful of how you use water and you have to be very careful of where you use water. दोनों चीज़ों में होने वाली है. I won't say more about this. You've I think heard too much by the from those 10 podcasts that you've heard. The second point है that is very technical वैसे. Over जो आप बात करें you know fertilization की. देखिए एक होता है aspect of जो मैंने NPK scheme है NPK is basically nitrogen, phosphorus and potassium. हम तीन की बात करते हैं. Micronutrients की आप जो बात कर रहे हो उसकी हम बात नहीं करते अभी. उसमें बाद में चला जाएंगे maybe we can talk about that जो biologicals हैं. NPK phosphorus है. Pakistan के soil है. I mean, soil का nature होता है zero to 14 में आप उसकी level उसका acidity level उसका देखते हैं. तो you have an alkaline soil or you can have, you know, high pH soil or low pH soil. Right? Pakistan की high pH calcareous soils हैं. Pakistan के soil के अंदर you have a lot of phosphorus but that phosphorus को to be plant available is a question. Every mineral which is available in soil is not necessarily available to the plant. So हमारी जो जो हमारी fertilizer companies की जो effort होती है वही होती है to come up with solutions whereby जो existing nutrient present in ground वही available हो जाए to the plant. वह तो ideal solution है ना फिर. So what do you do? You say कि अब मुझे अब इतनी ratio, NPK की ratio होती है two is to one is to point five. That is, you know, generic here two one point five. अब यह जहां पर नहीं है ना उसको हम उसके हिसाब से we do soil testing. We do massive. We put five labs in the country, and we do hundreds of thousands of soil tests every year for the farmers free of cost. Why? Because we want the farmer to put the right nutrient at the right place in the right quantity. तो अब यह कई जगह पर phosphorus high होती है but even then क्योंकि वह phosphorus available नहीं है plant को so we still have to put the DAP, you know, diammonium phosphate डालनी पड़ती है आपको. So that is the challenge that Pakistan has. It's not the it's uniform availability of nutrients let's just say that कि वो नहीं है. So then you have to do that. Where the people are they are saying कि yes हम over fertilize करते हैं at places लेकिन वो obviously fertilization हमारे farmers बेचारे वह भी नहीं करते ना soil testing नहीं कराते which is the again step number one होना चाहिए कि आपको nature तो पता होगा मेरी soil क्या है? High alkaline है? Acidic है? And I treat it accordingly. Know? It's like treating the patient with the right medicine after taking his temperature and blood pressure. If you don't do that, you won't know what to feel him. It's interesting

what you've mentioned. मुझे थोड़ा सा इसके बारे में यह भी बताएं कि जो economics की मैंने बात की because a lot of people say कि भाई economics का मसला है. काफ़ी दरमियाने में अच्छा इस पर मेरी half and half appearance दिया. आधे लोगों ने बोला था कि यार problem तो सारा आरती है. Loan sharks बैठे में उन्होंने सब तबाह कर दिया. आधे लोगों ने बोला कि यार आरती भी एक ecosystem में operate कर रहा है. वह भी eventually is is is exists because you know, the there is no other alternative available. So, that is में चूंकि मेरे पास जो micro finance वाले बहुत सारे लोग आए जो कि directly farmers के साथ काम करते रहे हैं historically. So, they talked about कि, you know, yes, we've tried to disrupt it, but there is a local cultural context to the आरती and that आरती actually plays a much wider role in the ecosystem. But yes, you know, उसका capital का मसला है. Farmers की, you know, planning ऐसी होती है कि वह एक छोटा सा mishap हो जाए. अभी again floods आए recently. उसके बाद god alone ने उसके कितने farmer farmers जो हैं वह अगले दस साल के लिए फ़ंस जाएंगे. And they wouldn't be able to figure themselves out and get out of that sort of a दलदल. तो एक तो वह angle है and I'd love to know about that overall macro level के ऊपर जो access to capital and उससे क्या होता है but कहीं ना कहीं I personally feel like कि जो मैंने वह वाली बात बोली कि on a top down दुनिया बहुत आगे निकल चुकी है. हम शायद on a policy making level अभी भी वह sort of age old slogans पर फंसे हुए हैं कि यार बस हमने you know सस्ता खाना जो है वह price control करना है इतने का देना है इतने का देना है जो कि top down does not work like we've seen that all over the world. It shouldn't be an emotional conversation. We need to figure out a situation where first aspect यह होना चाहिए कि food security maintain हो. अगर वह food security year on year ख़राब होती जा रही है, अगर imports of food बढ़ती जा रही हैं, तो clearly there is something wrong with the food like overall food economics and that may very well have to do with the with the way that the the policy is driven around, you know, from top to bottom. And, again, price control are a major aspect. I'd love to know your opinion on, you know the the economics of it as well.

It's a valid question. आपको वह I think most of us here and minus me maybe are too young, too too low. रोटी कपड़ा मकान का जो नारा था ना sixties का that came from a particular party. हमारा वही problem है अभी तक unfortunately. Food is रोटी is still a political stunt which is we are playing with. The government has done something very good actually. यह जो last year they said कि जी we are out of this price control of wheat. हमने free float कर देना इसको पहले तो ना आपकी price आती थी कि जी यह control price यह होगी. This is going to be the price that the government used to announce. पास्को के अपने warehouses थे, Punjab government, बाकी governments के अपने warehouses थे. They are out of it. उन्होंने कहा जी हम कुछ नहीं रखेंगे. This is a free market. Now I think that is a very crucial first step that now अहमद उल्ला we have taken. यह बहुत कड़वा step है and इसमें challenges आऐंगे बहुत सारे because price आपको पता है wheat की क्या हुई थी? Last year भी crash की, इस साल crash की, now it has gone up. Gone up से वही होगा जो आपने कहा कि जी flight के जी वह कहेंगे जी रोटी महंगी होगी शहरों में तो कम कर दो दोबारा. So this is something that the government has to resist because as soon as देखिए any new initiative is going to have you know अब उसका तो period initial लगता है उसको it takes time to settle. So you have to give it a couple of years जिसके अंदर कि थोड़ा सा थोड़ी सी vibration ज़्यादा होंगी but the flight will settle down. When the market takes over it will you know settle down कि यह normal price है at the time of harvest चौबीस सौ रुपए की है थोड़ा सा जब जब flood होगी तो वह अठारह सौ उन्नीस सौ रुपए चली जाएगी और दो तीन महीने बाद वह तीन हज़ार रुपए चली जाएगी. This is exactly what's gonna happen for wheat and rice. Rice के साथ यही होगा. We will see it अभी rice का harvest आ रहा है October November के अंदर. So one, the government has to have to you know थोड़ा सा सांस तमिल करना पड़ेगा उनको कि they'll have to take a bit of a beating which unfortunate that's the nature of the government they have to do it. जो second बात आरती की अपनी कि I could not agree with you more. आरती is a necessary evil if you want to call him that. We have actually उसको इतना demonize कर दिया ना आरती को. आरती is doing a very important job. Let's say tomorrow morning take out the आरतीs from the system. वह hundreds of billions का उन्होंने कार्रवार किया हुआ and support किया ठीक है at a very high cost to the farmer but किया तो हुआ है ना. So till the time we can come up with an alternative which again I would like to talk about it today. We have already started discussions with the State Bank of Pakistan, with our own हमारा अपना bank यास्करी bank उसके साथ मिलकर we are looking to to the government to design an initiative whereby again is the same it's not to replace the आरती actually you can't do it it's about $6,700 years old system. आरती का system यहां पर बनी होता था यहां पर you know all those. Europe के अंदर आपके जो लोग जब credit देते थे that is very old system, right? Agriculture के अंदर. So you can't wish them away tomorrow morning की जी आरती खत्म कर दो. It's not gonna happen. तो हम लोग बना ही रहे हैं कि state bank has to incentivize through the commercial banks the farmers and the right farmers. होता क्या है? Problem क्या है? जो होता क्या है कि जी वह जो कहते हैं वह कह रहे हैं there is an x number that you have to loan to the farmer, agreed loans आपने देनी. So आसान तरीका क्या है? Bank कहते हैं यार छोटे farmer को देकर recovery मेरे NPLs हो जाएंगे non performing loans. So what I do is मैं तेरे को दस farmer पकड़ता इन दस को पूरा loan दे देते हूँ बड़े बड़े farmers को. मेरा ticket size पूरा हो गया and that's it. That's the wrong approach. So that small ticket size, more farmer, more base and get more banks on boarded, right? So you'll have about let's say आपके पास दस commercial banks, पंद्रह commercial banks सारे आ जाए उन सबको ticket size state bank define कर दें कि यार आपका यह ticket size से बड़ा नहीं हो सकता size per farmer and you have to give them Aggi loans preferential loans. The banks have made up you know windfall कितना पैसा बनाया in the last four five years. So it's it's I think it's time for them like we are doing it. We are giving back to the community now. The initiative that we'll talk about it's it's for free to the farmers because we want to enable the farmer. आज farmer कि यह में पैसा आएगा ना, कल वह महंगा fertilizer खरीद सकेगा which is of course we will be marketing. So everyone's going to win in the end. But someone has to take the first step and the government followed by, you know, the state bank and big companies, corporates like us. We have to take the first step. We can't expect the farmer to take the first step. Makes sense. जबद, if I ask you, sort of similar

lines के ऊपर आपने, you know again before going to really what you guys are doing and I want this time when we talk about the product I want a more granular understanding of really आप कह रहे हैं. But before that I want to understand you've been working with farmers, you've been sort of studying the industry for a while now and five years तो आप directly कर रहे हैं. What do you think is the biggest issue right now that's facing the farmer or the agriculture sector in general? यह एक generic हैं अगर इनको हम fix कर दें तो suddenly, you know, we can actually make it much more optimized. Again, इस तरह context करना मैं यह कहूंगा कि I feel like farmer तो broken है ही है. बच्चों के farmer broken है तो वह पूरी supply chain broken है, right? वह आपकी वह मैं मैं Dubai में था for a couple of years and पाकिस्तानी mango सबसे best होता था और सबसे सड़ा हुआ आता था. ठीक है? वह literally milkshake level का वह पड़ा होता था supermarket के अंदर कि यार यह sale हमेशा sale पर होता था क्योंकि वह सड़ावा आता था. पाकिस्तानी they were good things. पाकिस्तानी potato was always पाकिस्तानी and best potato I could find was पाकिस्तानी. Mutton was पाकिस्तानी and, you know, वह Brazil and Pakistan were were literally owning mutton. But then there was a lot of other produce that Pakistan से वह आ ही नहीं पा रही थी और उसकी वजह farmer का मसला नहीं था. उसका वजह यह थी कि वह चार पांच दिन का जो turnaround है Middle East की market के लिए उसका infrastructure ही नहीं बिछा हुआ. आरती problem है लेकिन आरती को corporatize क्यों नहीं कर पा रहे हम? उसको एक organization की शक्ल क्यों नहीं दे पा रहे कि वह एक सदियों पुराने business को एक तरीके से manage कर लें और उसमें जो है ना वह extraction छोड़े और उसको एक proper legitimate business. So there are lot of these problems. जो हमने पहले भी discuss की water, economics, this and that. Granular micro level के ऊपर आपको क्या नज़र आता है exactly problem है क्या या problem थी क्या that you decided कि यार ok this is exciting but also fixable let's dive into this.

So let's divide it into three sections. हम कहते हैं before farm, on farm and after farm. हमारा core focus जो है वह अभी on farm है. अभी हमने भी talked about before farm जहां पर हम financing की बात कर रहे थे. आपने भी touched upon after farm जहां पर supply chain आ जाती है. हमारा जो hypothesis था ना it was के we wanted to understand exactly this. What are the problems? Why is it that जहां पर भी आप newspaper खोलें, geography की books आप देखें पुरानी ज़माने में जब आप class six, class five में थे तो उसमें आता था कि Pakistan is an agrarian economy. You mentioned that in the start as well. कपास हमारी सबसे अच्छी होती है. हम sugarcane बहुत बनाते हैं. Potato हमारे year on year increase हो रहे हैं and so on and so forth. That is exactly what we wanted to understand as well. So हमने दो तीन साल what we did was we just collected data and we try to understand the problem and in a very tech agnostic way and we didn't want to get anchored to a particular kind of technology. हमने कहा ना satellite, drone, shown सब बात की बातें. पहले समझो problem है क्या? So seed से लेकर harvest तक we started following farmers. हम मुकाड़ा गए, हम विहाड़ी, कसूर, लोहौर के आसपास. हमने अपने office boy को train किया. Obviously है तो startup at the end of the day so we had to make do with what people we had. So we trained our office boy उसको हमने सिखाया donor आना उसको सिखाया farmer से कैसे बात करनी है फिर अब then we hired some people in the team early early stage founding team के अंदर and we wanted to understand from a business perspective and from a farm perspective what are the challenges that the farmer faces throughout his life cycle and we divided that into those three categories that I talked about before farm, on farm, after farm. On farm के ऊपर what we found was there was a lot of missing insights which if given on time farmers could have taken the right action जिसकी वजह से उसकी productivity बढ़ सकती थी. Now I will give you a couple of examples of that. हमने जब खोलकर देखना शुरू किया and we actually took a lot of images through our drones, put it together as one big photo of a farm and when you have that in front of you, you are actually able to scan and scout for hundreds of acres at a time and imagine if you are doing this every week for a season then you have that imagery available where you can actually go back in time and see कि यार what actually happened here and this is before any intelligence is built on it. So, a couple of very basic problems. We talked about a lot about water. कभी कभी farmer की गलती भी नहीं होती. पानी बराबर वाले farm से leak हो जाता है. अगर बराबर वाले farm से leak हो गया तो उस जगह पर कभी germination नहीं होगी. उस जगह पर plant disease बनना शुरू हो जाएगी. अगर disease आना शुरू हो गई है तो वह एक epicenter create कर देता है. वह क्या करता है कि आपकी crops like potato for example वह disease आइश्ता आइश्ता करके spread होती रहेगी. Now by the time the farmer gets to it and you're talking about let's say even a 30 acre farm because this fragmented land ownership वह 30 acres कभी भी एक जगह पर नहीं होते. वह दो एक कड़ेदर होगा, पांच एकड़ोदर होगा, छह एकड़ोदर होगा. So एक बंदा या farmers या उसके workers they are not able to actually physically go and scout for issues on the farm on a manual basis every single day. तो हमने इस तरह से पूरा season potato, sugarcane, rice, cotton, potato, maize, cotton यह सारे बड़े crops लिए हमने different different pockets के अंदर अपनी teams को deploy किया and जब वह study करना शुरू किया ना वहां से हमने problems देखना शुरू किए बज़ाहिर stunted लग रहा है compared to the other parts of the field. Why is that? जाकर soil test किया तो पता चला कि वहां पर nutrient deficiency ज़्यादा थी. तो वहां पर शायद fertilizer XLR mention at the start हो सकता है कि plant ने uptake नहीं किया. So these are the kind of things and the data points we kept gathering over two years across multiple crops, across multiple climates, across multiple locations and then we said you know now let's figure out what technology is going to solve each of these problems. So for example I want to on farm को भी अगर मैं तीन हिस्सों में divide करूं I like to structure things like that. On farm early early stage है, mid stage है और late stage है. आप अगर देखिए just take a step back what is a farmer doing every day? A farmer is taking decisions. हर रोज़ वह decision ले रहा है. पानी कब देना है? Fertilizer कब लगाना है? Pesticide कब लगाना है? Levelling कब करानी है? Sowing कब करनी है? कौन सा seed लगाना है? Harvest कब करना है? So these are all decisions that he is taking. A good decision will lead to right outcomes. A bad decision or a suboptimal decision will obviously lead to suboptimal outcomes. Once we had done this whole exercise we had kind of brought it together into one platform which we call Farmlink and the whole idea behind Farmlink was कि we create the technology, we bring all those different data capture tools together and process that data on the platform so that the farmers can get actionable insights. Now when we say actionable insights, it has to be at the right time. If it's not at the right time then there is no it's just another piece of information for the farmer वह अपनी जाकर file में file का पेट भर देगा. अगर उस insight से वह decision नहीं ले पा रहा हम उसको enable नहीं कर पा रहे तो then that was our kind of think यार this is something that we have to do. So obviously there was lot of challenges कोई एक चीज़ नहीं कह सकते कि farm के ऊपर एक कोई चीज़ अगर आप zoom in कर लो कि एक challenge है and that's where we say कि अगर आप value chain की बात करें ना on farm की, it has to create value across the entire seed to harvest cycle to create that stickiness with the farmer, to create that value centricity approach के साथ create value on the farm as well. It has to be across all try and control as many variables as you can across the seed to harvest cycle. बाकी जो चीज़ें हैं on before farm, after farm these are all industries on its own. आपने mango की बात की that's a supply chain problem, storage problem, financing की हम बात कर चुके हैं. It's a to some extent I feel it's a data problem as well because we don't have enough data to actually say कि farmer actually कर क्या रहा है. वह पैसे लेकर कहीं बेटी की शादी तो नहीं कर रहा या पैसे लेकर वह कहीं कहीं और उड़ात हो नहीं रहा पैसे. So, it's a visibility problem as well. So, these are kind of things that we sought out for and we said this is what we're going to attack. First phase में we wanted to create value on the farm. Ok, that makes sense. But again,

के ऊपर pitch deck की पहली दो slides तो बहुत अच्छी हैं. Right? So now I'm I'm curious कि ok, you're saying कि we'll we'll there's a big problem. We'll provide the ultimate solution and we'll do everything. How does that everything really happen? Because, you know, there are people in Pakistan who've tried to use, let's say, high quality US government satellite data to predict कि यार मेरे पास मतलब चाहे अगर मैंने mapping करनी है तो मैं mapping भी कर सकता हूं उसके through. You know, सलाह earlier mentioned कि हमें पता ही नहीं है कितना वह हो रहा है. तो technically speaking now with the with with AI, if we can just sort of begin to map around, पानी को ढूंढने पानी से map around करना शुकायत तो AI actually can identify कि यार कौन सा पिछले दो साल के अंदर cultivated land रहा है historically. Technically, it's a it's an easy problem to solve. It might just have कि there is not enough heads working on it or not enough money to be put into it. But technology has enabled it. अच्छा, उनसे भी जब मेरी बात हुई ना तो उन्होंने कहा कि यार, you know, we have all of this and technically we can work with the farmer, but the farmer is uneducated and the farmer doesn't have the money to create a business case here. So we are doing other use cases right now. We're doing like b to b where we're saying कि ok, you know, you're a sugar factory. तो हम आपका जो sugarcane है उसको map करके आपको बता दिया करेंगे कहां कहां पर लगा हुआ है इस season के अंदर? कहां पर अच्छी quality का है, बुरी quality का है और उससे आपकी जो sourcing है वह बेहतर हो जाएगी. वग़ैरह वग़ैरह इस तरह की uses है. So you're still able to go to, like, a comparatively bigger sized consolidated partner that actually has the capital to invest and and and and to do business with you. And so there is a business case right there. अब आपके case में आपने कहा कि यार मैं farmer को सारी insights भी दे दूंगा, मैं वह सारा कुछ कर दूंगा. Let's take it like this. I am a farmer. I have a 100, no, that's too much. I have 50 acres of land and मैं Even that's too much. Even that's too much. नहीं, मैं 50 base ही में से आया हूं because मैं एक दो बोलना है ना तो आपने कहा ना यार यह तो इस cup में है. Give me something to work with. So let let me give you something to work with. I have 50 acres of land. Now there is I'm hearing this and I'm thinking, ok, wait. So, you know, you're saying कि मैं छह लाख रुपए के परेकर के ठेके को मैं पंद्रह लाख कर सकता हूं? The the most simplistic way, this guy is saying he has the elixir to solve all of my problems. Let me contact you and let me start asking you, ok ok, what can we do today? What would that actual solution look like for a farmer like me who's not even really going to the farm? Did did you require data from my farm? Or that's something that No. Ok. Yeah-yeah, no. So देखिए let's let's

let's divide it into two sections. Let's talk about a macro view कि उस इलाके में होता क्या है? And then we talk about a micro view कि actually farm पर क्या होना चाहिए? Macro view to some extent will guide obviously the micro view. Of course. But let's first talk about the micro view. Micro view is कि actually चीज़ें हो कैसे रही हैं? And along the way what is he doing wrong? What is he doing right? Because you are constantly monitoring right? So we we do weekly let's say drone flights on the farm. Ok. And because of that we get those imagery and then the intelligence layered on top of that imagery to actually guide the farmer कि उसने क्या चीज़ सही की, क्या चीज़ गलत की, कहां पर for example. अभी एक example लेते हैं. उसने sowing की, germination शुरू हुई. Within twenty days उसके पास एक view आ जाता है कि उसके actually plants हैं कितने और होने कितने चाहिए? Right. और कौन कौन से वह areas हैं जहां पर gaps हैं. Now अगर मैं manually करने जाऊं वह चीज़ तो अगर एक एकड़ की example लेते हैं जो कि या दो acre की example लेते हैं like a football field. It takes around eleven minutes to walk around it. Now if I take that same football field and I start drawing ridges in between, it will take me four hours to walk through that two acres. So to physically count that is just virtually is not practical. So to give the farmer sitting in कराची, लाहौर, इस्लामाबाद the view किया तुम्हारे actually farm पर जिस stage पर तुम्हें अब intervention करनी है वह intervention क्या है कि जाकर इन जगहों पर gaps fill करो. Ok, so at this stage essentially this the product is a consulting

service जिसमें आपकी team जा रही है वह सारा farm की full visibility दे रही है. आपके जो let's say land owner है जो कि what I'm trying to figure out here is मैं ना उस उस stakeholder को connect करने की कोशिश कर रहा हूं कि शायद वह जो farmer है वह शायद ना कर सके directly. But there are a lot of landowners sitting in cities जो कि excited भी होते हैं, interested भी होते लेकिन वह बोरिया बस्तरा बंद करके वापस नहीं जा सकते. Right? So, in that case can they actually utilize your service to get insight on what's really happening on their farms beyond what the टेगेदार is telling them?

100%. हमने शुरू में बात की B2B and B2C की. B2B channel तो हमारा है ही है but B2C channel is also something I am very excited about. हमारे पास we have a wait list of similar people who want to actually access that insights sitting in कराची, लाहौर, इस्लामाबाद, even Dubai, US, etc और वह हमें reach out करके कहते हैं कि आप हमें हमारे farm के ऊपर service दें and please give us insights of how we can make it more and then obviously it's a at the end of the day we are collecting data and converting that data into insights. The more data you collect naturally the better outcomes will be, the more the longer you take it for example आप एक season से दूसरे season से तीसरे season से चौथी season पर जाते हैं तो then you can start going into यार तुम्हें गंदम लगाने की ज़रूरत नहीं है. तुम इससे इससे better economics इसकी ABC crop की ज़्यादा अच्छी economics है in your region for example. So, it's not a, it's not a solution that's designed let's say just for those big farmers sitting in the cities and This is actually something I am really proud of. So, we talk about tech innovation, right? हमने एक बना तो दी एक चीज़ but you can create a Rolls Royce and if it's parked in my garage nobody is going to ever use it. Then what's the point? We want, we wanted to actually bring it to the most remotest rural parts of the country. Right. And we wanted to make it work. We call this the operational innovation that we have done. We wanted to make it work where supposedly it's not supposed to work. Like जहां पर आपका 2G internet है, जहां पर आपका 3G internet है, जहां पर आपका infrastructure gaps missing है. तो हमने उस operation model में हमने एक hub and spoke model setup किया जिसमें हमने around let's say अब्दुल्म आशील अभिराट about 25 different places in the country but key farming areas के अंदर we setup small hubs and we in a very light asset and lean personnel model we started acquiring farms around those around that hub in a very compact cluster. Now the asset is travelling to multiple farms, the personnel is travelling to multiple farms and back to you know bringing it to an affordable level that's where we want to obviously distribute the cost over a higher number of acreages so more farmers can benefit. Now the farm the smallest farm size that we have in our cluster is point zero six acres. These were kind of like the two biggest challenges for us right? So operationally अब अब जैसे अगर मुझे

जिस तरह की कोई inquiry आती है. So just to confirm basically आप यह कह रहे हैं कि यार जो आपकी core proprietary technology है वह basically यह कर रही है कि यार मेरे पास मेरा drone है drone जा रहा और जाकर के वह data capture कर रहा या you know video form में data capture कर रहा है और फिर I can actually utilize that data and gather a lot of insights from about individual farms and their x y z सारी चीज़ें आपने mention की हैं. My understanding is कि you're basically effectively जो logistics companies होती हैं ना उसके उनका एक वह एक rider होता है वह एक particular location को कर रहा होता है. वहां पर जितने भी वह आते हैं उनको deal कर लेता है. You just need that one guy who's able to manage those parcels. आपके case में you have that one drone operator जो कि basically एक certain, let's say, खानीवाल के एक particular इलाक़े को capture कर लेगा. उसने हर हफ़्ते जाना है, उसकी बड़ी simple सी job है. He's not thinking much. उसने जाना है, दोनों डालना है. उसने हर उस पूरे radius को capture करके लेकर आना है और वह data उसने भेज देना है hub में. Hub उसके ऊपर insights generate कर रहा है. Technically speaking, अगर आपके पास वह data आ रहा है, तो उस पर वह farm हो या ना हो data crunch हो जाएगा and so farmers को technically speaking आप एक subscription model पर ला सकते हैं जिस पर आप realistically insights generate करके दे सकते कि यार you know if they are they are on the platform they can technically get updates on what's going on, what do they all you really have to because you have that data. That person is gathering it. You just have to crunch it if you have the is that Correct. Am I completely off or? Broadly

broadly broadly yes but drone is just one form of data capture tool there's other obviously data capture data is being captured every day on the farm soil for example क्या है so we were sponsored by USAID last year and we set up our own soil lab and again the whole idea was in a very much to सलाह's disliking in a very MVP style approach try and prove the value first and then invest in the product. तो इस seed to harvest को complete करने के लिए भी set up a soil lab. So जहां पर भी हम लोग जाते हैं वहां पर हम soil testing भी करते हैं. ताकि हमारे पास एक data point और आ जाए. फिर हम लोग weather का data लेते हैं that's the second data point. Then moisture का data होता है farmer का that's the third data point and the whole idea is कि जितनी आप data points capture कर सकते हैं उतनी आप variability को control कर सकते हैं उतना आप predictability build कर सकते हैं. So simple terms में you are right that's the model but if only it was that simple. Of course. Farmers obviously farmers obviously are are rightly so very reluctant to use technology because over the last seventy-seventy five years or so we have been selling them something or the other and they are actually the smartest businessman that I have ever seen. वह मतलब आप मुझे बताएं आप मेरे सालार यहां बैठे हैं. करोड़ों रुपए का input ज़मीन में फ़ेंक के आराम से कुछ हो सकता है रात को farm कर Right. सकता So, मतलब वह जो भी decision लेगा ना वह it's rooted in ROI कि उसका मैं यह डालूंगा तो मुझे क्या इसका बदले में मिलेगा? So, इसको भी हमें gap को bridge करना था. So, we talked about technology innovation, we talked about operational innovation. आपने बिल्कुल सही कहा कि वह logistics की तरह वह जाता रहता है So हमने जो दो तीन साल data capture किया और जो continuously कर भी रहे हैं, fine tune भी कर रहे हैं चीज़ों को. वह agronomist जो है ना वह हम farmers को नहीं देते platform. आज हमने एक principle बनाया हुआ है we don't want to give the platform to the farmers today. Eventually once they are hooked on to it, it will just be alerts for them. क्या करना क्या है? इधर जाकर पानी दो, इधर जाकर seed लगाओ, इधर जाकर x y and z biological fertilizer डालो. That's we have to but it's a journey. We have to get there first. So तो जो मज़ाक में हम लोग आपस में बोलते हैं कि बहुत बड़ा पंगा ले लिया हम लोगों ने कि एक तो technology company बना था अच्छा खासा product बना के SaaS उस पर आ जाते but we had to obviously make sure the technology is being used as well. So obviously the design choice right now is that we are a product company with a service arm but eventually once that service arm is democratized in the country like Uber then we move back to being a product company and

Pakistan being the crux of or let's say our product development hub or market where every problem exists therefore every solution will exist as well for global scalability. Makes sense. I think वह चूंकि वह underlying foundational layer ही नहीं demand. आपको demand create करने के लिए दस और problems solve करनी पड़ रही हैं. Absolutely. ताकि वह एक दबा हो जाए तो उसके ऊपर चीज़ें build कर. I think you're सबसे मुश्किल काम है आपका because you're the one who's gonna build the foundation and then 10 other players will come in and say कि ok here's a here are 10 other products for you. But you know obviously the most noble there as well. सरार, I'm gonna come to you. I wanna understand. Look, we we we we are I've understood now product क्या है? बड़ी अगर मैं इसको बहुत ही simplify कर लूं कि भाई, you know, a lot of the problems are because there's a lack of data. And so we're going we're gonna get as much data as possible and एक reactive तरीके से काम करने के बजाए हम proactive तरीके से काम करना शुरू कर देंगे and you know we'll we'll actually create the ultimate engine of critical thinking for the farmer जो कि आकर आपके सारी चीज़ों को बेहतर कर देगा. Now principally, you know, जवाब has mentioned that multiple times it's b to c or the direct to farmer is still sort of locked in and is gonna open up sometime later. So then obviously it's understandable कि it's going to the b to b situation right now and again पहले भी जब मेरी बात हुई तो हमेशा यही agree के अंदर more or less वह घूम घूमा के उधर ही आते हैं कि इस वक़्त business case ही नहीं है. Solution मैं आज बैठकर कावक़स पर बना सकता हूं लेकिन business case नहीं है कि मैं इतने सारे छोटे छोटे छोटे farmers के साथ काम करके एक ऐसा product बना सकूं जिस पर वह मुझे इतना पैसा दे सकेंगे जिसके ऊपर मेरा you know functions चल सके. So more often than not b to b partnerships होती हैं. You've mentioned the data aspect of how important and how powerful that is. But I want a more real real world example of कि जब आप कहते हैं कि आपने partner किया and आपने because again as a layman, you're a fertilizer company. Right? So you'd require data probably कि यार अगर मैंने insight generate करनी है कि अगले साल में क्या होगा? किस region में मैंने अपना माल बेचना है? किस तरह से मैंने optimize करना है? Sure, there's a lot of data that I can gather. But then you're one aspect of the of the farming value chain as per my understanding, right? कि fertilizer तक महदूद है. आपके साथ इस वक़्त जो partnership हो रही है उसमें what exactly are you leveraging with AgriLift to be able to I mean what are the those insights? How does that help you build your business or make it better?

Okay, let me tell you the entire pictures की जो है ना. You are absolutely right. It has to make sense at the end of the day. हम फिलाई इदारा तो नहीं है, right? But मैंने पहले ज़िक्र किया था कि I only or we in FFC only make money when someone buys from me. ठीक है? एक fertilizer तो वन रहा है, बिक रहा है you know अलहम्दुर अल्लाह, it's a necessity बहुत ज़रूरी है. But why AgriLift? Why the tech? क्यों हम इस्तेमाल कर रहे हैं उसको? They have absolutely no sense कि हो क्या रहा है but they want to just see that app. So we हमारा aim यह है कि for the absentee farmer at least उसके पास यह device पड़ी होगी. उसको insights जारी होंगी कि मेरी flight हुई है मेरे farm की यह हालत है. यह तो होगी ना ज़रा just you know look and feel उसकी दिखाने के लिए. Actual essence क्या है? Why is FFC into it? देखिए FFC ने like I said the global landscape of fertilizer यह move कर रही है. You know evolution हो रहा है उसका like any other thing आपका Nokia तैंतीस दस से भी आप you know you're into Samsung पता नहीं कौन सा आ गया 25 आ गया है और iPhone sixteen seventeen पर हम चले गए हैं. So the same way the fertilizer is also evolving. अभी एक आप बात कर रहे थे NPKS जो हमारे main you know macronutrients हैं. We are going to the biologicals. दुनिया जा रही है biological fertilizers के ऊपर. Biologicals के अंदर Pakistan के अंदर market already has about thirty to thirty two billion rupees की market है biologicals और हम कितने का बनाते हैं? Zero. एक रुपए का भी नहीं बनाते अभी. And like anyone else, no major fertilizer company in Pakistan makes a rupee of biological product. Why? दुनिया में बनना शुरू हो गया है. The big companies in the world are already into this. We also want to make this. But यह बड़ा महंगा होता है. यह कौन खरीदेगा? यह वह farmer खरीदेगा जिसकी जेब में पैसा है. Farmer की जेब में पैसा कैसे आएगा? वह अभी अपनी गंदम लेता है तैंतीस मान अपने farm से. दुनिया के average सतासी मान किए, right? वह cotton में यार it's criminal. आपके national emblem पर cotton बना हुआ है. आप अट्ठारह मान ले रहे हैं. Right? दुनिया तो सौ से ऊपर ले रही है इसके अंदर. तो I mean हमारा जो I mean जो हमारा मज़े की बात है Pakistan में यह अच्छे farmers छत्तीस से cross कर चुके हैं. So it's Pakistan के अंदर double वन रही already from progressive farmers. हम कहां रह गए हैं पीछे? So हमने यह जो करना है ना what why FSC is into this because we know we believe this inshallah कि with the use of this tech my farmer will also be able to produce enough कि उसकी जेब में पैसा आएगा. Always a circle. It's a it's a you have to complete the circle कि उसकी जेब में पैसा आएगा so that he can buy the more expensive fertilizer which we will be making and marketing to them. Now, यह जो हमारा typical जो supply chain थी ना fertilizer की in Pakistan के manufacturers बनाते थे. हमारे इस वक्त तीन हज़ार एक सौ अस्सी या तीन हज़ार दो सौ dealers हैं Pakistan में. FFC की बात कर रहा हूं. तो वह dealer को हम बेचते थे and then dealer जो मर्ज़ी करे जितने का बेचे जो मर्ज़ी करे it was up to him. So we did not have the direct touch points with the farmers. अभी हमने last year से अलहमद्राह वो बना लिए. We have 100 stores across the country by the name of सोना centers कि अभी हमारे अपने c का component जो है ना पहले c was the dealer now c is the farmer so we are actually going from b to c ना, right? We were going from b to b to c किसे अब b to c पर हम आ गए. So that is where we will actually वहां से हम start करेंगे because now we know the farmer. जो actual किसान ज़मीन पर डाल रहा ना मुझे पता है उसका और वह मज़े की बात है अभी छोटा वाला. Pakistan का average size भी अभी 12.5, 12.4 acres पर आ गया जो और कम हो रहा है. Every year हमारी ज़मीन holding कम होती जा रही है. तो हमने उसी farmer को target की है. उसी farmer को हमने enable करना है. वह farmer जब enable हो जाएगा ना तो इंशालाहब we are very sure कि Pakistan की food security में फ़र्क़ तभी पड़ेगा and we end up making money because we are the ones who will be bringing in the new products through this tech because one thing I think हमने mention नहीं किया कि this tech is also going to make his input efficient जहां पर वह pesticides डालता है या herbicides, viricides डालता है. उसकी एक बोतल लगती है, एक letter लगता है let's say एक एकड़ के ऊपर. वहां उसका point seven five लगेगा through this tech because हम उसको smartly बताएंगे यार यहां डालो, यहां ना डालो, ज़रूरत नहीं है डालने की. Right? So this is only going to be enabled by the tech. सबका जो at the end product इन सब initiatives का है more money in the farmers pocket so that he can spend more.

So just to confirm जो partnership है वह effectively यह है कि are you are you becoming that's what I'm curious about. Are you basically saying कि ok we're partner with you and whoever buys from us जो touch point पर है उसको हम आपको recommend कर देंगे ताकि आपकी brand equity बढ़ जाए. क्योंकि if you go as Agri Lift and the farmers like आप कौन हैं और कहां से आए हैं? आप तो कभी हम exist ही नहीं करते थे. तो वह शायद trust deficit की वजह से आएगा ही. So is it that you guys are aggregating all of these farmers and then bring them on this platform? Or are you launching this product for the far to the farmer as FFC? I'm just I'm just a little curious about that.

Actually, we are doing a bit of both. देखिए AgriLift has made a model जिसके अंदर कि उन्होंने agronomist भी डाला अपना ज़मीन पर बिल्कुल ठीक है. But of course FFC has its own strength. We don't know tech. I mean I'll put my hand up I have absolutely no idea what he does behind the you know वो cloudsword paper में क्या करते हैं ये? But whatever he does उसको ground पर implement FFC से बेहतर कोई नहीं कर सकता. Because I am on the ground for the last five decades you know. So मेरे जो बंदे की जो reputation है when an FFC agronomist goes on ground and tells the farmer कि यार तुम यह नहीं यह करो. I don't know if you have tried it. Farmers जो है ना हमारे वह generational knowledge को over Newton's third law of motion you know उसको वह they will give preference कि मेरे बाप बाप ने भी किया था मेरे दादा ने भी किया था I am going to do this thank you very much. I am not gonna listen to you. So to make him listen by my agronomist that is the value that FFC or my agronomy team is adding actually. तो आपकी बात बिल्कुल ठीक है. The tech is absolutely being made by them and that's what we want to do in the future also. They should actually AgriLift should concentrate on developing because यह भी बना this is not the MVP बना ना अभी तो. We are going to improve it Inshallah and it's a to and fro thing. They make a thing they throw it to us the people go along with their agronomist RP teams go on the ground. हम उसको किसान को कहते हैं कि यार यह ऐसे करो इस्तेमाल करो then we take the teaching back to them कि यार किसान को I think ऐसे करना चाहिए you know because it's the mindset of the किसान you can't just invent something and shove it down his throat के दिए करो इस्तेमाल no that's not gonna happen so you have to make it nice and you know conducive for him to use so that's the value that FFC is adding and and we are partners in this so inshallah going forward we will improve the product ताकि वह किसान use भी करे and उसकी you know applicability not only in Pakistan we are looking at actually inshallah taking it you know global why not Because there is a lot of space for such tech in South America, in Africa, even parts of East you know East Asia. इंशालाह that's the ultimate aim. So we are looking big but starting like he said Pakistan is the innovation lab. यहां पर हम इसको करेंगे इस पर adopt करके then we take it international.

मैं इसमें एक दो चीज़ें अगर add करूं so in in I talked about product and service so think about the service as a last mile gap. Today we have to do it because there's nobody else who has the expertise in terms of how it's done. Tomorrow it will be FFC's team who will be running that last mile gap and we will go back to being a product company and start innovating and adding more features and what not. Ok,

अगर मैं इसमें आपको पूछूं कि जो आप यह last mile की बात कर रहे हैं इसका मतलब यह है कि eventually third person ही data gather कर रहा होगा drone से. Third person ही जो है वह soil testing कर रहा होगा, third person सारा कुछ कर रहा होगा और वह सिर्फ़ आपके engine में data feed करेगा and then you will give them insight या कहीं ना कहीं उस part को आप still control करेंगे?

Early years में इसको control करना पड़ेगा जो कि कर रहे हैं हम लोग because obviously data की authenticity or the way it's being processed and look we are talking about रवि के season में हमने 1.5 petabyte data process किया है. 25,000,000 images have been have gone through the platform you know we recorded 40,000 farm events just in रवि alone जिसका मतलब हर field के ऊपर actually inputs क्या गए? पानी कौन सा लगा? कब लगा? Tubel से लगा या canal से लगा? Fertilizer कौन सा इस्तेमाल गया? कौन सा brand था? Chemicals और कौन से डले? So all of these data points obviously are helping with us in terms of predictability and creating those predictive models as well out in the future. Yes, so first two three years we will have to control that hub and spoke model and that last mile gap because this is something that has never happened before like जिस scale पर हम अभी बात कर रहे हैं, this has never happened before in Pakistan. So eventually

when I say we democratize it we democratize it let's say through सोना centers through our other partners जहां पर for example Uber, Uber ने exactly यह किया ना Uber उन्हें से से और businesses खुल जाएंगे ना वह एक drone operator होगा जो कि वह tractor नहीं होता वह जो सारे share करते हैं. तो एक drone operator होगा सब share करेंगे. वह drone से वह ख़र्लिया करेंगे. एक soil tester होगा. तो वह basically एक पूरा ecosystem emerge कर जाएगा and there's a lot of other business opportunities in sort of these micro centers that that are gonna pop up. I wanna talk a little bit about your financials, right? So you're saying a lot of things and that's exciting, but that costs a lot of money. Yeah. And and Salar mentioned just about now que we're at the MVP stage. Right? So 2020, you started this. Five years later, you're at the MVP stage. You're you're talking about petabytes of data that requires a crazy amount of compute. I'm not even getting into the talent that is required to actually, you know, process that and and create and generate insights from it. Two tiers में मैं इसको करूंगा. पहला यह है कि did you raise funding at any point? Was it local? Was it international? How did you sustain yourself? Was it like you you know, you were in investment banking or accounting and जो बाहर से आप पैसा लेकर आए थे आपने कहा यार you know ऐसी की तैसी तो उनके सारा ऐसी भी लगा देते हैं. Yeah did you go for कि अच्छा चलो एक एक एक proper क्योंकि again 2020 was still a good time. वह 20 '22 वाला bust नहीं आया था Pakistan में कि you could still raise capital as a liberal regime. Right? 22 के बाद तो it's been quite a nightmare in terms of startups and fundraising and so on. And दूसरा, currently, you said you're not at b to c. You're you're at b to b. I'm still a little confused in terms of do you have revenue positive partners that you're working with जिनका देख एक actual business case चल रहा है कि यार, you know what? You require this insight. We'll give you that. You give us x amount. Y amount of that goes into actually costs, and then there is some sort of a extra premium that we can either invest back or take in as profit. Financials का मुझे थोड़ा सा बताइएगा and इसके साथ ही if you can tie up कि what's the current scale of your operations? Like, आपने थोड़ा सा उसका दिया दिया in terms of you know the the the data that is being but what is the headcount? What are what's the how many different stakeholders are you connected with or working with and and so on?

So let me let me actually correct one thing over here. MVP stage we've crossed now because we've proven the revenue model, we've proven the business model. We're now looking to scale and growth. Where are we in terms of headcount? So we're about in the product side of things along with the people that we have we're about 40 people and then we have another 45 people on the field. The people who are actually doing the drone flights and agronomist and people managing those. So in total as a company we have 85 people right now. We are as quickly get up on our feet as possible and reduce the reliance from external funding. And why is that? Because unfortunately we are sitting in Pakistan. You might मतलब other than obviously the macro दुनिया में जो क्या हो रहा है Pakistan के अपने unique challenges हैं. नाज़ुक मोड़ जाते हैं and you have to have them yeah. नाज़ुक, एक और नाज़ुक मोड़ आया हुआ है. So हमने by design हमने यह किया था कि we got the ecosystem to support us. Like players like FFC, players like National Foods, they played a huge role in this. अबराह Hassan who is a CEO of National Foods played a huge role in supporting us. There is a HBL and there is some other partners as well who when we when we were launching the MVP at the soft launch let's say जो हमने किया पिछले साल the whole hypothesis again was कि let's first see कि यार यह yield improve होती भी है कि नहीं होती. तो players like FFC

Was that support in terms of कि ok, you know, we have these x amount of farmers that we connect with. Will help you create like were there customers or were there grants?

दो चीज़ें They are channel. Yeah yeah, so मैं बताता हूं. They are channel. FFC, all the other players who have a farmer network, they are all channels for us. So we went through that channel and we said के let's try and test this technology out. It's a new technology. It's never been done in Pakistan before. उसको test out करते cost आप लोग sponsor करें and once we prove the business model and once we prove the revenue model then we create a business model around this जो कि हमें पता था कि वह क्या है कि वही जब आपने बात की है भी operations का एक अलग leg and technology का एक अलग leg. तो वह हमारा roadmap बहुत clear है. We know exactly what needs to be done over the next four five years and how we are going to do it. Pakistan में तो yes बिल्कुल करना है. पूरे Pakistan every होके corner Pakistan का conquer करना है लेकिन Pakistan से बाहर भी जाना है because what my thing has been के bootstrap हमने किया by design and then we incubated Agri Lift in a company called Tenex. Tenex is a software consultancy company. They specialize in data and data monetize, data strategies for companies around the world. It's a global company based out headquartered both in लोहौर and with offices in six other countries. We incubated it in that company alone. So we got that initial help like the pre seat check, the bench resources, the office space, you know the T boys and the office boys all those things we got that support from 10X in the early part. So eventually अब अब हम कहां खड़े हुए हैं? अब हमने pre series A पर आज खड़े हुए हैं अपने which we call growth and let's say even proving because we've already proven product market fit. हमारा जो पहला Avenue होगा ना वह हमेशा B to B होगा because उनके लिए जो potential for data collection and opening up future use cases that's significant and huge and we're not talking about कि यार मुल्क में बता दो कि कितनी sugarcane लगी है, मुल्क में बता दो कितना आलू लगा हुआ We are talking about यार how do I predict let's say how much content of a certain chemical is there in the plant? How do and because that variable can actually change the way the bottom line for them looks looks. B2C we are already starting now. We are doing that through the सोना channel. So we will be a B2B but the when we talk about the last mile gap FFC will then become the सोना center where we bring that technology out to the different farmers in Pakistan. So yeah 85 people across the company we are in about 25 different locations we are monitoring about more than 30,000 acres which is more than the size of San Francisco through the team these are all paid

started off with being paid pilots which are now progressing into embedding ourselves into the ecosystem of these players. And the Some of them are supplying sound like there's not cash being burnt and you know a a fun lab activity that might just sort of crumble out into nothingness.

Not at all. Inshallah Inshallah if all things go to go as per plan we will be we will be actually be in the green as well very soon. So we have been very cost conscious, we have been very revenue conscious as well because ultimately it's not it's not a fun hobby right? Are actually building a business and the business needs to be monetized. If you can't the business then eventually

you run out of funds then yeah. Absolutely and so what's the अगर मैं Pakistan की बात करूं what do you have like five year numbers कि यार if we do well we're at 30,000 right now we should be at a million in five years. In five years, we should be doing x, y, z. I I don't know. आप लोगों के ecosystem में what would those numbers look like? But do you have, a a benchmark of where you would like to go?

My benchmark would be that if you talk about the vision right or if you talk about numbers and translate it into a vision. It is to become second nature in farming. Now whether just like for example you अब आज अगर आपको liberty से ring road चढ़ना है तो आप सबसे पहली चीज़ Google Maps खोलते हो. That's the goal with Agri Lift as well and that's the goal around the world. So we are testing out now in The US and South America through some of our international partners and we are also expanding rapidly in Pakistan. So the goal and I don't want to define it in terms of कितने एकड़ होगा but I want this to be the biggest success story coming out of Pakistan number one. Number two I wanted to be second nature in farming and I want us the hub and spoke model that we have developed I wanted to be replicated around the world. So because सबसे ज़्यादा हम सुनते यही थे कि हमने technology बना दी लेकिन वह farmer के लिए महंगी बहुत है but अब महंगी है तो इसको किस तरह सस्ता करना है? Obviously innovation भी आती रहेगी, technology की cause भी नीचे आती रहेगी, operations की cause भी बेहतर होती रहेगी. Eventually तो आपने इसको Pakistan को conquer करके then you need to look elsewhere as well and export this innovation out of Pakistan. सरार भाई यहां पर मैं आपके एक input लूंगा because

जवाबद भाई ने as a startup founder ना बिल्कुल perfect vision दी है overall startups में particularly generally, agriculture में particularly कि हमारा जो innovator आता है ना वह इतना generally आगे होता है कि अगर वह उसका solution निकाल भी लेता है तो there is a mindset problem, there is an economic problem, there is a, a logistical problem जिसकी वजह से more often than not वह आता है. वह Pakistan पर testing करता है. उसके पास early doctor आता है दस, बारह, पंद्रह, पचास because we have a lot of and and this is not just an agri. I'm I'm talking to a lot of startups and I'm hearing the same thing. And again, करीम was a great example of that कि Pakistan gave them the numbers for that evaluation, but eventually Pakistan was the first market that they're also exiting as well because, you know, there's a lot of other problems that that पाकिस्तानी market tend to bring in. Agree के अंदर मुझे याद है this gentleman who created a fitbit for cows. वह जो है ना वह कावलर के नाम से था, बहुत popularize हुआ था. One of the first पाकिस्तानी company to get incubated at Y Combinator in 2017. उस time के ऊपर exactly same जो आपके livestock farming हैं उसका भी exactly same problem है कि जी आपकी milk yield बहुत बुरी है, cows की growth बहुत बुरी है. There are like you know South America में Brazil and Australia are like the global leaders of of of cattle farming. And so that gentleman created that. He had results all of that he वह जो जब बाकी farmer के पास जा रहे थे, farmer कह रहा था कि भाई यह मैं क्या घंटा बांध दूंगा. अच्छा उन्होंने बनाया भी घंटा था वह पाकिस्तानी घंटा style, right? उसके अंदर सारे उन्हें tech डाली थी. Eventually Y Combinator gave them access. वह बहुत rapidly गया और उन्होंने जी Brazil relocate किया और आख़िर में उन्होंने Brazil की yield को और बढ़ा दिया और हम जो है ना उनसे comparable और ही बैठे रह गए. And more often than not, there is a mindset problem. There is a micro macro problem where micro के अंदर yes farmer की economic problems हैं यह हुआ है but macro के अंदर policy के problems हैं, price fixing के problems हैं. You know और बहुत सारे आपके water management के मसले. जवाब भाई ने जब मुझे जो अभी last चीज़ बोली है ना उससे मैं excite इस वजह से हुआ because मुझे हुआ कि यार यह company चल तो जाएगी. ज़बरदस्त काम कर रही है. यहां पर सारा करके quickly diversify करेगी और अपने आप को dollar first करेगी. दुखी थोड़ा सा इस वजह से हुआ because जब एक बंदे को पास American customer या South American customer भी क्या क्या access हो और उसके पास पाकिस्तानी customer का access होना. बड़ा logical बात है वह उधर जाएगा और उधर जाकर expand out करेगा because उधर वह 90% time innovation पर डाल रहा है, 10% time figuring out पर डाल रहा है. Pakistan में वह 90% time demand creation में डाल रहा है और 10 time innovation में डाल रहा And so you as a as a जो अच्छी बात इनकी upside है वह यह है कि he's gotten a lot of backing by historical place. आपने Pakistan में ही रहना है for the good foreseeable future. Export export आप करेंगे जो भी लेकिन Pakistan is a strong hold for you, right? For you Agri lift is an integral part of your let's say innovation strategy in the future. How do you see something like this with the mindset, with the all of the problems जो हैं unfortunately in a developing country, in an emerging market वह मसले आते हैं, right? And I feel like कि agri के अंदर तो और ज़्यादा compounded है because we're stuck in a rut and it's like a it's a weird chicken and egg कि, you know, you solve the problem of finance first so that you can begin to innovate and and and grow or you innovate and grow so that you can make more money. What do you do first? You're just sort of stuck. इस पूरी situation, I'm not sure if I'm able to articulate the question, but that feeling that I've shared with you, how do you approach the Pakistan expansion and how confident are you that, okay, listen. I mean, with all of the mindset problems and all of those things, I think it can work. I'm I'm now based on the data that we've seen, based on the economics that we've seen, based on the pilots that we've run, I think this can actually grow in Pakistan and this could be a long term thing that can actually, on a macro level, help the overall industry and economy.

Safest

to say that's the longest question I've ever been watching my life. Not even sure if that was the question. It's heartfelt feelings.

नहीं नहीं, I I I actually I I loved it because I think it came from the heart. It it tells me. And look with all I wish AgreeLift all the best and I actually want them to go global and we have talked about this but again मेरा तो ओरणा भी छोना Pakistan है and I I I am going to make sure it it is a success. आपका है how? देखिए दोनों mutually totally exclusive चीज़ें. Tech going global. अच्छा by the way this is not like we are trying to invent the new iPhone. It's not like that. दुनिया में यह काम हो रहा है already, right? And there are drones being flown in the world. There is satellite mapping. There's a lot of tech you know जहां पर आप जाते हैं जैसी tech show पर आप चले जाओ तो आपको लगा दस film की सीधी advance चीज़ें हो रही होती. But challenge वही है कि advance चीज़ करना और उसको adopt करवाना. जो adopt करवाना है ना that is where we come in. FFC comes in. मैंने आपको पहले भी ज़िक्र किया था कि we are very very you know orthodox in our thinking. हम लोग कहते हैं नहीं यार मेरे अब्बा जी ने दाएं से overtake ऐसे किया था मुझे सिखाया था मैं भी दाएं से ऐसे overtake करूंगा, right? और मैंने खाद यह वाली डालनी है. मैं literally जो brand loyalties हैं और brand names वह you'll be amazed कि farmers कहते जी मैंने और लेना ही कुछ नहीं है यही लेना है मैंने because that's what I have grown on, right? Good thing क्या हो रही है? There's a lot of पढ़ा लिखा farmer आपका बढ़ता जा रहा है. नई generation में there's a lot of people जिनके अंदर appetite है और those who want to do new things. So, though it's a challenge and though it's it's it's going to be difficult for us to tell these people but it can be done. It's not like very difficult. एक दफा आपने prove करना है. Now I'll give you one example. Pakistan में जो pesticides आती हैं ना वह international है because Pakistan में तो again good quality pesticides बनता नहीं है Pakistan import करता है. They are very expensive और farmer डालता है वह I am talking of वह गरीब farmer की बात कर रहा हूँ. वह भी डालता है वह because he knows कि मैंने ना डाली तो वह सुंडी या वह कीड़ा या वह जो मेरे पास रास लगेगा ना तो वह मेरी तबाह कर देगा. So it's very expensive. He knows the value. He puts that input. So what we are trying to do is we are trying to educate the farmer and telling them the value of this intervention. मेरा मेरा काम data को collate करना, cloud पर भेजना, I don't even know what bloody petabyte means you know कि मेरा काम उससे कुछ आलूक नहीं है. I leave that all जिग्री पुग्री to जवाब. My job is to make sure कि when he brings that you know gizmo to the farmer, I make sure कि farmer adopts it and that is it's a big challenge but we are doing it. Alhamdulillah we have done it for almost a year plus now. Adoption हो रही है. It's slow because that's the nature of the beast. Know, it takes time for such things to really take traction. But यह हो जाएगा. I am very very confident. Don't even think it's a five eight six. Think it's a three year journey. Three years में we should be able to make it in such a way कि people would come to us and start asking us कि यार. I mean drones तो already लोग मांगते हैं. हम, we fly the drones. हमने देखा है खुद मैं अंजवाद हुई in the field. You go to a field, you fly a drone, साताला farmer वैसे आ जाता है कि अरे क्या कर रहे हैं आप लोग? And what's happening? What exactly are you doing? So the traction is there. It's slow but it's there and I think in three years time I am looking at

well I won't say a million acres but you never know. I think वह वह एक critical point आता है ना कि जिसमें आपने जो इस वक्त

I think there's a lot of confidence I think Sorry, I if I can just say one more thing sorry आपका मैं I think I didn't answer your question fully. जो dollar value वाली चीज़ है ना वह वह ज़रूरी है because you see why not? I mean we have other companies I don't want to name them जो Pakistan में आकर अपना tech बेच रही हैं, international companies, those who are, they claim to do the same thing as them. They don't do the same thing. So why don't we take our tech which is better inshallah and take it there and compete with them because that dialogue daughter when it comes back to us we will be the ones जो हम innovate करके and I keep him honest you know I tell him कि भजन जो काम होगा ना पहले यहाँ पर होगा Pakistan में and then you're gonna go and I'm very grateful to him that he obviously obviously listens to us. We are working together and हमारा जो product जो भी बनेगा I mean Pakistan first इसमें तो कोई शक नहीं है. We are going to deploy it here first, do the success for our farmers and then of course take it abroad and why not make some money out of it. I think the results have been very encouraging as well. With the results in the रवि and the खरीद seasons have been very very encouraging. So we

we are seeing जो इत्साला ने बात की कि बराबर वाला farmer आकर पुछ रहा है. हमारे पास direct enquiries बहुत आती हैं. अब यह होता है कि हमारा farmer जो हमारे clusters में farmers हैं वह wait करते हम कि अब आप मुझे क्या नई चीज़ बताओगे जो मुझे नहीं पता? And when when you start looking at data and all the proprietary technology that we've built and the benchmarking I don't want to go into the technicalities of it but वह वाली चीज़ आ जाती है कि जब मुझे नहीं पता इस plant के अंदर कुछ नज़र नहीं आ रहा visibly तो आपको कैसे पता कि यह plant stress के अंदर है and you are engaging with every plant on the field. So that's where I feel के the excitement really happens with the farmers and they really start taking interest कि यार आप मेरे पैसे भी बचा रहे हो, आप मेरी yield भी increase कर रहे हो. So अभी जो हमारा decision गुज़रा है रवि का भी had a very comprehensive deep dive into it and overall जिन clusters में हम लोग थे versus जिनमें हम लोग नहीं थे या जिन farms पर हम लोग थे और जिन farms पर नहीं थे we posted higher yields over there. We posted also higher profits for farmers and overall we created a significant amount of dollar value for those x number of farmers that we worked with. And I think this goes back to what I had originally said. When you want to build something globally scalable, you have to a prove the revenue model, you have to prove the product market fit, you have to prove unit economics and if unit economics and everything else is positive then it's automatically scalable and these things with the challenges that we face in Pakistan if we can do it over here with let's say 100 problems then you take it to Africa where there is let's say only 70. You take it to The US where there is only 15 problems and it's not कि US का farmer बहुत अच्छा है. उधर भी problems हैं वहां पर भी कीड़ा आता है. वहां पर भी disease आती है. वहां पर भी unpredictability है weather की. So that's where I feel कि जो deep tech element है हम लोगों का इस specification farming platform को लेकर combining multiple data sets to create that intelligence. Maybe it will take another let's say one or two years to finish that platinum state level that we want to do but the results from the season that we have just done are so encouraging that even you know sometimes I am a little dumbfounded कि आर्यन ने कैसे कर लिया? Like you know we went from 20 people to 80 people overnight. We deployed them in 30 different places across Pakistan and we are working with now seven or eight different companies in Pakistan and some direct farmers as well as test cases. So yeah, it is, it is I think the results were very encouraging. That gives us the confidence to continue to invest into this and make it a globally scalable product. No, that makes sense. I think जो मेरे लिए इसमें सबसे interesting चीज़ है वह यही है कि when it comes to Pakistan it's a it's a

you know multifaceted problem जिसमें एक obviously innovation and technology is is there and you've already proven that that works. But जो दूसरा है वह यह है कि how do you sort of operationalize it and and and and reduce? उसको आप cost कह लें, उसको आप overhead कह लें कि how do you reduce the operations की overhead? And I think the strategy is is paramount here, which gives a lot of confidence where, you know, I'm seeing on the website, Angro has partnered with you at some point. National Foods has done that. Interloop has done that. So you across multiple different industries, people who are using agriculture input, they're now getting on board. And they have the institutional memory and the connectivity and the network to then actually push you in and create that sort of demand and create that sort of economic overall. Woj, okay, I think, brings a lot of confidence to to to the to the startup. It's an incredible story. I hope, again, Agri is such a such something very close to my heart because it's such an important part of Pakistan. लेकिन unfortunately ignore होता है. I'm glad कि पढ़े लिखे लोग इसके अंदर घुस रहे हैं but more importantly I'm surprised and also glad कि someone from कराची is getting into it because वह Punjab वाला घुसता है लेकिन Punjab का DNA बड़ा मुख्तल है हम Punjab hide थे. कराची वाला जो है ना वह he is in it to kill it. And so I'm glad that someone from कराची has gotten into it. It's a, it's a कराची चुल्ला factor. It's a कराची चुल्ला factor. I mean, कराची knows. मैं तो इस्लामाबादी ना इस्लामाबादियों को बातें करने का बहुत shock होता है. They don't really know how to build, you know, business धंधा करना. तो तो कराची वाला धंधा करता है. वह जो भी हो जाए, वह निकाल लेता है अपना system. I think I'm excited to see how you guys scale this. I'm excited to see how, yes, how you help the farmer, but also how we can actually benefit. Pakistan can benefit from that. वह dollar की बात हो रही थी. I think agri is directly connected to that dollar as well even in the entire ecosystem. Right? The more overall value is created, the more we export, overall country gets the dollar as well. Guys get the dollar as well. So I know Dollars की जो बात है मैं sorry if I can just put in a quick

number here it was fascinating. We do about 4 to 5,000,000,000 you also mentioned it export aggregate. So we were looking at the national averages that we are doing right now and if we can come to within Pakistan की best of luck forget international, हम international ही जाते हम कहते हैं यार जो Pakistan में उगाड़ा है ना best farmer वह उगा लो so we can easily export about 9.5 to 9,800,000,000 additional dollars. Additional. By doing these little thing additional over and above that five.

So imagine you can double that you know. Just to bench market against पाकिसानी farmers. 200 times you know. It's huge overload opportunity. I think it's a huge overload opportunity. Think of it this way like farmers कितना data generate करते हैं. Soil, weather, input usage, output, financing yields. They generate so much data and if we can provide them that platform where they can own, trade, monetize their data as a collateral for example. That's something that I feel it's a multi billion dollar opportunity as well. So it's it's it's a huge overlooked opportunity and generally around the world as well because it's a complex industry agriculture is a least digitized sector as well.

Makes sense and I I think वही वाली बात है कि scale की बात है. At a certain scale then there are 10 other products that I can think of. Yeah. As the ecosystem begins to develop, as that data comes in for a lot of other partners to come in and say, listen, give us that data and then help us next legs of the post farm distance आपने break किया था. तो वह वाला part पूरा का पूरा अभी तो खुलना है once the base foundation is there. Guys, I'm gonna wrap this up with the one hour forty minute mark. Thank you so much for taking the time out and sharing all that insight. I'm gonna ask one question to both of you. I ask all of my guests that and context उसमें यह है कि जवाब भाई तो directly Pakistan से बाहर थे. अच्छी ज़िंदगी गुज़ार रहे थे. हर कोई बाहर जाना चाहता है. लेकिन वहने कहा नहीं भई मैंने Pakistan आना है. So I'm curious to know his rationale and and and his long term vision for that. And with सलाह भाई as well, obviously जब आप इस इस level of, you know, corporate के top down पर होते हैं ना तो बड़ा एक different आपका एक vision होता है in terms of looking at things in a macro way and नाज़ुक मोर से गुज़रने की जो appetite होती है बड़ी फ़र्क़ होती है. Because obviously, the the the overall footprint is so large. And so with that context I'd love to know from both of you. जवाबद you can go first. How do you see Pakistan in twenty fifty, twenty five years from now with this small caveat that you can't say if this happens. So government अगर यह कर ले, लोग अगर यह कर ले. I just want the current set of variables that you see and then extrapolate that कि यार पच्चीस साल बाद का Pakistan आप कैसा देख रहे हैं? Independent of what we are doing? Yeah yeah, just open ended agree को भी touch करें but generally आपको Pakistan की vibe आ क्या रही है? आने वाले वक्त के अंदर पच्चीस साल. I think वह

I think मेरे बारे में भी और मेरे कुछ दोस्तों के बारे में भी हुए bank back benches in school और हमारी report card में ना हमेशा लिखा होता था has potential does not apply. That I think unfortunately is right now Pakistan but I feel the raw talent over here the opportunity in terms of just look cross sectors, minerals, you look at agriculture, you look at services. I have and the youth that's coming up as well now like sixty-seventy percent of our population is youth and there is a lot of potential and I feel it's a bubble like it's something is bubbling under the surface. I want to see a very happy and prosperous Pakistan where it has relevance to global decision making that's happening. I want obviously AgriLift to be a global success story and wanted to be the biggest tech success coming out of Pakistan. जब बाकी मुल्कों से tech export होती है दूसरे मुमले मुमलेकों में तो why can't we do it? There is no reason why we can't do it. If you embed yourself into supply chain decision making of big companies then you are already a part of their ecosystem which we are currently doing as well. So to wrap it up I feel के twenty fifty I feel and I think I ran I bumped across an article as well Forbes का था या किसी और का था कि Pakistan will be the top 10 economies of the world if I am not mistaken. Goldman Sachs की report थी twenty seventy five की केवल. Goldman Sachs की report थी yeah Absolutely and I feel we'll get there. With the right mindset we will get there. I think if the backbencher

does not apply सलाह, जवाबद can can do be here and create agree lift I think Pakistan को हम उस data point से तो there's a good great future ahead. सलाह, what are your thoughts on the twenty fifty का Pakistan?

I'm I'm a natural optimist, you know. मैं तो I look at a glass always awful and I I feel in spite of what's happening in Pakistan right now without using the airfare like you very rightly said, I think Pakistan is poised to do wonderful things. We have the mindset actually, that's the most important. We have the mindset, we have the capability. Our people go and do wonders across the world. Why can't we do the same thing here? We can and we will. And I think we are absolutely at the right place in 2025, the next couple of decades. I think Pakistan is we have everything we don't like anything at all which should stop us. So, think with the steps that we are taking agriculture has to be the starting point. I am very glad that we are in the right ecosystem and right space. This will do but tech of course, natural resources now people are coming to Pakistan exploring us. We do the right thing with those resources that we have. There is no reason Pakistan, I mean forget top 10, top five is the place to be. So I think 2050 would be very exciting times.

And one more thing I think the overall ecosystem needs to play its part as well. So like obviously I don't want to reinvent the wheel with everything. So we have to collectively work with each other so that we can create that bigger ecosystem. So I don't want obviously for example I mean on farm, before farm, after farm की बात की why do I need to go into supply chain for example, why do I need to go into before farm. Master ourselves and get the youth thinking of more opportunities and and create that entrepreneurship route as well. If वाली बात एक मैं ज़रूर करूंगा कि अगर आप हमारे ecosystem को देखें versus आप US के ecosystem को देखें. We as a nation like investing in assets but if you look at The US they like investing in people. So that's the that's where the entrepreneurship comes from and and I feel कि जितने भी bubble हो रहे हैं ideas and I I lot of people come to us as well bouncing off ideas. Is a lot of in the last four five years a lot of people are starting to do things and they are moving away from the corporate culture and moving into small micro business opportunities. I feel I am very hopeful कि छोटी छोटी छोटी छोटी चीज़ें करके we will create a bigger sum of parts in the future.

इस होश में हूं कि short term turbulence, long term bullish on Pakistan. It's an inevitability. It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when. But इस series तो करने का भी मक़सा दिए था कि this आपने सारी बहुत सारी already आप sun चुके हैं in all sorts of industries, right? Like medical related, legal, this, that. $10.15, $20,000,000 plus revenues वाली companies पिछले तीन साल में बनी है. जब सब कह रहे थे तब तबाह हो गया. Right? तो जिसने is that those there are now foundational problems being solved by incredible problem solvers like जवाहरदेहर. And I think what really is gonna be exciting is कि इस foundational layer के बाद जो ecosystem develop होगा, जब आज यह एक startup build हो रहा है, इस startup के ecosystem के ऊपर पचास जब अगली companyयां build होंगी that is when it's gonna be oh you know we've missed the boat. Obviously Pakistan ने तो rise करना था, obviously काम आसान होना था. जो smart आदमी है वह शायद इस time के ऊपर noise को ignore करके काम कर रहा होगा. But guys, thank you so much for taking the time out, sharing all that insight. You know, Ag Lift, FFC, I wish you guys the absolute best. Whatever you guys do inherently will be a service to the nation. So thank you for your service and thank you for taking the time out.