Pakistan's first premium pet food brand, made in Karachi

सामने बहुत दिनों सिर्फ welcome back to another episode of thought पे end think. Sir आज की वो तारीख है जिस दिन we made it, we made it अपने mainstream media TV वाली personality को लाकर बिठाया sir. ये याद रखिएगा आज की तारीख के अंदर Yes Is that it is, it is बिल्कुल. Is the co founder of Waggles pet food. It's made in Pakistan pet food. The reason why I am very excited about this conversation is because एक तो यह है Pakistan मतलब at least पांच छह साल हो चुके हुए हैं जब भी मैं चिल्ला रहा हूं और खासकर podcast में दो तीन दिन तक चिल्ला चुका हूं कि यार pet food भी नहीं बना सकते. मतलब कितना मुश्किल है ना pet food बनाना इस world के अंदर तो एक साहब finally आ गए और उन्होंने वक्त की वक्त को देखते हुए शायद उससे पहले थोड़ा सा राजेता but I think the time is perfect for you. We started off in 2020. Is when we officially launched waggles in January 2020. So it had been a quieter decision उस time पर हमने identify किया गया है Pakistan में तकरीबन हर तरह की FMCGG वन रही है except for pet food. तो इतनी import reliance है हमारी country की इस चीज़ के ऊपर. We should definitely like move towards creating pet food locally

and तब हमने एक चीज़ start करी और मज़हब्मिल यह चीज़ start हुई थी बिल्कुल एक home based kitchen से. अच्छा. तो first यह था कि दो दो किलो के छोटे छोटे batches no, we are pre covid brand. We started in January and covid hit in March 2020. So at that point in time it was a very clear decision कि आप अपनी job छोड़ रहे हैं और pet food manufacturing में जा रहे हैं करना है या नहीं करना है. But digital first brand होने का हमें advantage था. We moved really early on e commerce for pet

सच्ची बातें है. मेरी इतनी सी थी. But honestly honestly it's a great great pleasure and it's a great honor to have you here in No, the a great pleasure being here and I so excited to know that you know know me.

We all know you. Yeah and be that

there are some amazing young people like you doing such great work. Thank you so much. भारत, भारत.

मैं थोड़ी देर के लिए वापस लेकर आऊंगा. We will dive deep into that as well. राहेब भाई मुझे यह बताइएगा कि so we are talking about the pet food company and you started in January 2020. Tell me a little bit about if there was an elevator pitch. You know, what's what's the company? What do you do? And why do you do it? ज़मिल, what we do is we manufacture pet food using very simple and complicated transparent ingredients.

अगर आप usually pet food industry से थोड़ा सा वाके फोंगे ना तो इसके अंदर सबसे कम regulation है globally और सबसे ज़्यादा जो इसके अंदर problems आती हैं वो आती हैं for example ingredient label की अगर हम बात करते हैं. So there are so many complicated things written on the back of the pack or the product that nobody really understands as to what they are purchasing. तो अब इसमें legendary brand जैसे तो सौ साल से product बना रहे हैं and to be honest जो Western world में products बनते हैं वो काफी हद तक Pakistan में import यहाँ होते हैं और वो एक dumping होती है उन products से क्योंकि वो Western world में भी unique consumer है. So can you name us some of these brands जो कि generally Pakistan में चल रहे हैं? Some of these brands अगर मैं mention करूँ तो there is meow pet food जिसके बारे में एक dry food brand है जो अक्सर pastry लोग कहते हैं कि यार बिल्ली को खिलाने से कितने problems होते हैं यार मुसले problems होते हैं. That's also pertain to dry food in particular. So we manufacture wet pet food recipes. Reason being कि यार cats for example are notoriously difficult water drinkers. So in this situation when you have a source of healthy hydration in their food it makes a lot of difference कि आप उसको एक broth based, real bone broth based recipes जो हैं वो खिलाते हैं और उसकी health के ऊपर उसके actual implications होते हैं और positive sense के अंदर. तो it makes a lot of sense that way. Right and so you guys are, you guys started in January 2020. Yes we had like a six seven month eight month trial period before this. अच्छा उससे पहले launch market, ship to market नहीं हो रहा था? हाँ, हमारी go to market जो था ना वो start हुआ है January 2020 से. That's when we first started retailing. Okay. So before that I did a couple of animal nutrition courses कि पता तो यार आप क्या चीज़ बना रहे हैं मतलब थोड़ा उसको सही तो कर लें उस चीज़. But again वही बात थी कि इसमें इतनी कोई complicated चीज़ नहीं है. It's just that it's done with using very high quality ingredients and yeah, I mean it's just as simple कि pets की diet को रखा जाए and focus कि उनकी health को कैसे benefit होना उस चीज़ से. तो essentially जो brand start भी हुआ था वह बड़ा उसकी background भी थोड़ा सा funny है अगर मैं थोड़ा background बजाऊं उसके. Without I was working for this agency and we had this lot of interns that came in over there there essentially. तो we really like the name. क्योंकि dog उसकी centric एक, एक vibe थी और एक अच्छा connect वन गया उसके साथ. We started off with dog food then we moved into puppy food for smaller dogs and then we moved towards cat food which was a fairly recent launch. This was 2022 में start हुआ है cat food हमारा. And so before this you were working in advertising? Yes, I graduated in 2016 if I am not wrong. Yeah, 2016. From? From ज़ाबिस्त, क्राशी and उसके बाद फिर I worked for a couple of FMCG industries. उसके अंदर बहुत दूध बेचा है, बहुत biscuit बेचा है. बहुत सर्फ Excel बेचा है, detergent बहुत साल क्या है? And बस लेकिन problem यह था कि अच्छा you were in सर्फ Excel क्या है? Unilever? हाँ I was working on the agency side who managed the entire digital part for Unilever. Right. तो काफी jumps की इधर उधर FMCG में गया, power utility के electrically काम किया but जल्दी से भाग गया वहाँ से क्योंकि थोड़ा boring था and उसके बाद. हाँ बिन्दी there are good jobs.

Tire master been quite a plunge कि यार मैं घर वालों को बोला गया अच्छा जी वह अच्छी तो this is when we started off. हमें growing उसकी demand नज़र आई and obviously we scaled it to a quite sizable business. And if I were to ask you I mean it can मैंने receive हुआ. So by the way I so I will tell you the process. पैसा वैसा नहीं लगा मैं इस podcast के ऊपर. Five minutes later she came back and she had the entire thing and for me that was a huge win. Right. And then I think the can the carton had maybe 12 or twenty Twenty Twenty four. And and she ate most of them. अगर वो नहीं खाए तो वो मेरी गलती की वजह से या मैंने आदत देख आदत fridge में रख दिया और वो delay हो गया. And so wet किया and it works and its good.

So that is why they are here and that is why I made it. इसमें मज़मिल थोड़ी सी अगर मैं value add कर सकूँ ना तो वही बात है कि क्या है it's a five seven ingredient based product. तो it's not like you have like a ton of ingredients that are put into it का आप कहें कि इतना complicated product है या उसमें फलां preservative डल रहा है. The best part is we don't add any sort of artificial flavors, colors or preservatives to the food. So, makes it very interesting. Why? Because एक एक customer को connect उससे feel होता है product के साथ. क्या है? अगर natural का claim है तो it's not just a verbal thing that's written on the packet. Actually stands true to the claim. Right. Grain free is something that's very big in pet food. This is also that we've kept in mind कि हमारी सारी product offerings जो हैं वो grain free हैं. ठीक है. यानी कि उसके अंदर grain नहीं है. अब हम dogs की अगर बात करते तो चार पांच सौ साल से हमने उनको omnivores में तब्दील कर दिया है dogs को. Right. और हमें उनको domesticate करते करते we've made them into domestic animals जो घर में हमारे pets रखते हैं. इस course के अंदर इनके diet के अंदर भी बहुत change आया है. But dogs are not supposed to be on a grain diet. People don't generally prefer it plus premium is the way to go. Considering that we wanted to build a local brand that's serving the local market as well as exporting from Pakistan. So considering कि दुनिया भर में क्या trends चल रहे हैं pet food के हवाले से उनको भी नज़र में रखना बहुत ज़रूरी था while manufacturing for the local industry. Right. जो आपके ingredients है वो locally sourced है? Yes 100%. जो आपका can है वो can जो है वो क्या local होता है या? The can is the only thing that we import from China considering that there is no source of local cans available जो इतने मैयार के हों जो आप कहें कि यार उसी में हम product डालेंगे what we are also trying to sort out on a supply chain कि आप एक 40 feet container अगर import करते हैं तो वह आप technically उसमें सिर्फ ढाई से तीन ton वज़न import करें. आप हवा import कर रहे होगे कि वह pre made can है. You just have to fill the food in it and can it. So if you can get the aluminum and start sort of. You can utilize the entire freight of the container saying कि twenty, twenty six tons पूरा fill aluminum चाहिए उसके अंदर. अब उसके अंदर food grade और वह तो तीन problems है that we are sorting out. But is this something that we are looking into? क्योंकि obviously the volume is growing and we need to ensure that And the paper is all पाक्स्तानी obviously जो sticker लग रहा उसको. Yeah yeah, exactly, precisely.

बिल्कुल हमेशा. बराबर है, बराबर है. Understand when I will come towards you now. Yeah. And I know that you have a have a deep connection with animals as well. Yes. You know, you have been an activist

for animals as well. Also own and jeez.

I am a mother. Actually, don't own them. They own me. Tell me a little bit about that. First of all के why I mean so आपका how did you end up being a pet mother? I don't know if it's a dog or a cat. Both. Both, ok. So how did you end up becoming that? Yeah, my mother was always a pet mom. So,

in house we were always encouraged to bring in the injured animals on the street, the the बकरी that needs help, the कबे का बच्चा that's fallen off the tree, you know, the rabbit that the neighbors want to give away. The maruhi is gonna give nice अंडा. So we had, like, a little farm in our house and I got very attached to all the animals. So it wasn't just dogs and cats. One of my favorite animals was rooster. मुर्गा होता था हमारा छोटा सा. उसके लिए मैंने गाना भी बनाया था. Mumma does like if you remember. I was like, so you know, so I grew up around a lot of animals. And, my mom liked birds as well, and, from her came that thing down to me. And, I cannot thank her enough for introducing us to animals at an age where, once this kind of interaction happens, it stays with you for life. It makes you kinder, it makes you responsible, it makes you understand the living beings besides humans who think they're superior to everybody else. And it gives you a very very sort of it creates a sort of gentleness in you towards the less towards vulnerable living beings. So उससे yeah that's how the love eventually came in and then there was no looking back there was a time when I wanted a घोड़ा कि अब मैंने घोड़ा खरीदना है. मैं बातें से कही तलेंगे लेंगे He is like बेटा it will cost around money. Don't know I just want a horse. It's so beautiful. He said we can't keep a horse now.

So, you know. And you've been, I mean, you've been vocal about the way that, Pakistan treats animals as well and वो सारा सारा. How did that convert from? For a lot of people it's just like कि यार ठीक है यार घर मेरे घर में है और मेरा special prince है और I know even today people look for breeds.

You know I have breeds myself in the house. I mean I can't be hypocrite here and say that no. But we also have like a stray like my mum, you know we have adopted one but she loves the street more than she loves our house because that's her home. So we try and do as much as we can because once an animal is alive and in this world irrespective of its breed or stray it needs a home and it needs a good home. Right? So smaller breed sometimes easier to manage. छोटे हैं I know कि हम you know बड़े जो कुत्ते होते हैं वो इस्लाहाबाद में आप शायद रख सकते हैं कराची में भी most of us are in apartments we are in smaller spaces right but आवाज़ उठाना I think तब शुरू हुआ when I started beefandering animals on the streets when I was like ठीक है अगर मैं अपने अंदर को तो खिला रही हूं तो मैं थोड़ा सा बाहर इसको भी डाल देती हूं फिर इसके बच्चे में है तो उसको भी डाल देती हूं and there was one dog we got a black hees she used to be outside on the street and I literally started with one of these meos only you know like I didn't know I was like okay this is more सस्ता and I will just feed this to her and क्या बस खुश हो जाएगी. That dog started sitting at her doorstep She used to follow her car to the end of the street. When we used to come back home, she used to get her, wag her tail and follow us back. So there is an entire personality to her that happened, Absolutely. Each animal has a little bit pushed her. And she would just lie down and jump and everything and I I started petting her and then I was like, you know, and then my father, mother, thank god for them. They were very conscious people. They were like, let's get her vaccinated. Nice. Let's get her rabies shot and, you know, she became like and then they have a very short lifespan. Were talking about street animals are manhandled and mistreated. They really getting such a high risk as this. They are high risk. In two three years she disappeared. Never saw her again and we think she kind of passed away somewhere. You know, but उसके बाद से decided that, you know, even they are as intelligent and they deserve all the respect and care in the world. And I think, I was starting राफिद्दीप today. I was like, you know, we humans think कि हम इंसान हैं और हम अशरफल मुखलूक कहाते हैं लेकिन अल्लाह ने हम सबको बना है. ठीक है? तो हम अपने आप को ज़रूर superior समझते हैं लेकिन है वह भी अल्लाह की मुखलूक और उसका भी इतना ही हक है ज़मीन पर जितना आपका मेरा है. हमें लगता है हमारा ज़्यादा हक है. And I feel like a true metric of superiority is really about what you do with those below you know those above you right at the end of the day and. A that and B that they were born on these streets. How can you kill them for being on these streets? How can you dishome them? You know, they are like, oh, the leopards are coming from मरदला into our homes and I keep telling them, no, you have really gone into their homes. They are going to go somewhere. Around our, is my life going to go. Right? So, it's been very-very disheartening in terms of,

I mean, human rights देख ले मैं animal rights की क्या बात करूं? True. But and and that's generally the argument that a lot of people make, right? कि oh, you know, we have kids dying. Why do I should we I care about hear that a lot is that. And for me really that mindset changed

जब मैं एक दफार तुर्की का मेरा एक चक्कर लगा था. Right. आप दोनों के बारे नहीं किया but I have heard lot about this पेद. Sir आप जानवरों

से अगर at least culturally मुसलमान वो सारा चीज़ें exist करती है. For me when we look at animal rights and I know that you know I guess one aspect of it is really shaming people into acknowledging and telling और ये बड़ी बड़ा अच्छा लगा कि पिछले दिनों ना I saw this video of this एक तो हम तो अपने KLI की बात करते ना case में shame कर लें लोगों को. तो वह आजकल Facebook ने TikTok copy लगाया हुआ है. तो I was very addictive. Just keep on scrolling and it's to help you about what's happening in that peripheral Pakistan. Right? And so उस पर कोई एक मोहल्ला है in some let's say second thirtieth city So I open the comment section. अब देखते साथ ही मुझे वह यार frustration आई. हैरा एक urban frustration आती है you know why are people like this? So I open the comment section and the comment section is filled with people writing an उर्दू. There's a there's a right? Who तो आप उसको classify कर सकते किस तरह लिखेंगे या किस तरह से बोलेंगे या क्योंकि profiles कैसी हैं वो segment नीचे है और उन्होंने ना video

वाले लोगों की ले ली. बिल्कुल because एक वही बात है ना कि ये चीज़ ज़रूरी ले

ली और मुझे जो मज़ा आया मुझे जो खुशी हुई क्योंकि मेरा expectation यह थी कि मैंने पहले उनको तो judge किया और मैंने उनको कहा मैंने कहा यार यह लोगों again यह जितने marginalized और जितने ज़्यादा पिचारे poverty ridden लोग हैं they don't know any better. फिर

in all these countries that I am mentioning. Cambodia, Burma. I have family there. There are people sleeping on the streets with dogs and cats sleeping with them. Yeah. Yeah. So, there are people abroad. They are homeless. They are sitting on the streets of New York City and they have their कुत्ता with them. Yeah. And the कुत्ता is also happy and I It is matter of pride and mean for them. And nobody can take the कुत्ता away. क्योंकि इस राख में he needs a बड़ा life, so let's put him in a mansion. He will not be happy. He is happy here on the road. With the parent of the. With his parent.

But then secondly जो जो जो एक issue अगर मैं कहूं कि animal rights के उसमें आता है वह यह आता है कि you know last year मुझे याद है बहुत यह आरोजपिती है यह चीज़ कि यार उनको उठा हुआ जाकर उनमें डाल दो, shelters में डाल दो. And वहां पर मैंने यार मैं जानवरों को उधर ही रखकर how can I convert that experience you know in a I mean I I I

might upset some people but I always use this example because I have some friends in पुणा in India and they manage to bring down the stray dog and cat population by thirty percent in ten years by just making sure they were rabies free, they were spayed and neutered and vaccinated? Exactly. And they put back on the scene. There is a case in point as an example that's happened right Yeah, next but they are like, oh no, we don't spay and neuter them because it's un Islamic but we can obviously poison them with food and make them suffer for three days at an end or sometimes they even shoot them while they're asleep in the head because that's extremely Islamic. I mean, I, you know, like it makes me very sad to hear. So, there are humane ways to control the population and again as people who think we are human beings and we must look beneath us, it's our moral

duty. Think इसके बारे में आप

किरदार जानवरों के साथ कैसा था? कुछ हज़ार कहानियां निकलती हैं. चिड़िया से लेकर, कुत्ते से लेकर, Spider से लेकर, लेकर, बिल्ली से लेकर, ऊंटनी से लेकर and the way he could communicate and understand that pain. Yeah, yeah. It was unreal. -Yeah. You know, like, I mean, I don't know if we have time. But there is one story that really touched me because एक उठनी थोड़ी सी पागल हो गई थी and पूरा कारवान रुक दिया था. So, these people were getting frustrated with her and she was running haywire here and there. So the prophet was nearby and people were he was like what's the commotion and they said that and this is authentic because I was like I'll check how authentic it is. He went there to see what it is and create some sort of calmness. So the उपनी saw him and when he started approaching her she became calmer. Sir breathing and when it went through her and he pet her slowly gradually he came and he said इसका owner कहां है? He said कि मुझे बोल रही है तुम इसको रोज़ मारते हो, बहुत मारते हो और इसलिए अभी थक गई है. मैंने उसके बच्चे को भी मारते हो. Can you imagine? I was just like, अरे मनासाहब, why don't you talk about this? Friday press में, you know, because हम गधों कुत्ता मारते हैं, हम गधों कुत्ता मारते हैं and he was like wait there is a, उन्होंने अपना खुद बार रोका उन्होंने कहा की एक second. So he said की यह जो दरख्त है यह बात काट रहे हो इसमें इसके बच्चे हैं. You know? Exactly. Like she's come to tell me and these things are why do we know this? Why do we only know other Like violence and like poisoning them.

Stress के हवाले से भी अगर मेरी बात जो animal welfare की overall है उसमें यही है ना कि each person each to do their part to complete the objective of you know having animal secure in the society.

तो उसमें कोई ज़्यादा नहीं कोई complicated बात नहीं है but अगर आप अपने घर के बाहर की जो थोड़े बहुत जानवर है नज़दीकी उनके ख्याल कर लेना तो वह एक बंदा करे वह सौ लोग करे वह इसका इसका overall उसका नहीं और absolutely like I feel like a lot of times we talk about and government has its own responsibility but we also know the government is burdened and developing economy government is burdened नहीं होना. वो अगले चार पांच साला भूलिया. तो यह वाली जो आपकी बात है but the government kills them.

Because they have been abused. They been abused absolutely. That's the only, when you, if you start playing with them when they are puppies,

you will realize they don't have one aggressive bone in their body. The only aggression they have is for people coming into your neighborhood. Exactly. Like you mentioned, k-forty grown dog who you just started giving food and started being sort of warm towards उसकी personality बदल गई. Absolutely. तो puppy तो चलो बहुत ही दूर की game है. उसकी मतलब जैसे animal welfare को भी facilitate करने के लिए Waggles as a brand हमने जो कुछ initiatives लिए थे वह जैसे was launching a donation platform. It was a first of its kind tailor built pet food donation platform जो दुनिया में किसी pet food company ने नहीं किया. But considering कि हमारे पास एक ऐसी space है जिसके अंदर एक animal welfare बहुत बड़ा problem है. So that's when we decided कि यार इस तरह की गर्मी चीज़ बनाते हैं जिसमें we have animal shelters on board and we'll be able to send them pet food supplies because obviously as a manufacturer हमने beach में दो तीन donation drives run करीं but वह sustainable नहीं है. तो उनके पास इतना pressure है कि आप समझें कि एक आध animal shelter में जब मैंने खुद भी जाकर visit किया था उनके पास चार पांच सौ dogs हैं और उनका daily का खाना है they have to be fight at least twice a day और मतलब वो एक system है तो how do you ensure कि ये सही से चलता जाए? तो hence we collaborated with अनुषे on that as well and वो काफी fruitful drive उसकी चली and वो अभी भी live है obviously it's going to be sustaining and growing of course and the reason was that कि यार as a community as पाकिस्तानी अगर हम ये feel करते हैं कि एक animal shelters के पास ये problem है तो एक tailor built ऐसा platform है जहा पर आप जाके अपना shelter of choice select करें कि यार इस्लामाबाद में shelter हो लोहौर में हो, पिशावर में हो, कराची में हो.

जो आपका pet food है वह its retailing around $2.50 online. Yes. And I think जो तो foods around 300. 300 and जो stores के ऊपर मुझे रचनाबाद में available मिल रही थी price वह था that was 300. Right. And I was getting so I will tell you honestly कि हम लोग friskies इस्तेमाल कर रहे इससे पहले.

बढ़ गई है इनका ख़लाक्षरी क्या है जैसे वह Afghanistan

से आ रहा है Iran से आ रहा है but आ रहा है कहीं से but three forty five का वह मिल रहा था friskies. So पहला question तो यह है कि जो जो margins है essentially like it's just as a consumer if I were to if I were to choose between this or that I would always choose that as because I can it's a it's a it's a matter of trust. Absolutely. Right and the only way that I would choose this would be कि यार मुझे price point के ऊपर कोई बहुत major impact पड़ रहा है. बिल्कुल. जिसके ऊपर conversion is much easier. So the idea is कि यार there is being there is pet food being made let's say across the world may be somewhere in Netherlands जहां पर बकरा जेबाब होता है वह कटता है या मछलीब होती है उसके बाद वह in all of that are much higher versus something being produced in Karachi for example and being distributed across Pakistan should theoretically be less. बिल्कुल सही बात. So so अगर मैं इसकी unit economics के ऊपर जाऊं how do you sort of work around that?

कि वो by the time उस पर सौ percent duty लग के वो shelf पर आते है तो वो competitive price पर जिस पर हम already retail कर रहे हैं. Plus those brands carry a 100 legacy behind them. The brand as you just mentioned is a Nestle portfolio brand. Right. तो considering कि ये इनकी manufacturing US में भी है, Thailand में भी है, different different जगहों में तो they achieve unit economics differently in all separate regions. In the case of friskies for example, Pakistan के अंदर जो उनकी requirement या उनकी stock की जो consumption होती है that's very ad hoc. तो it's not कि कोई इसका fixed trend है या कोई pattern है. In fact this goes for majority of the pet food products क्योंकि जो importers हैं या retailers हैं उनकी कोई customer के साथ loyalty नहीं है उस चीज़ के ऊपर. They are concerned with the margins that are involved in the whole supply chain उसको यहाँ मंगाने के चक्कर में. तो when whichever brand that they get higher margins on is the brand that they pick from the market and they retail over here. तो अगर आप दो तीन बड़ी retail chains देख लें तो आपको एक quarter के अंदर एक certain brand पूरा share भी नज़र आएगा और उसके अगले quarter में वो brand available जो होगा कोई नई चीज़ आपको वहाँ retail हो रही होगी उसके अंदर. तो यह बहुत बड़ा difference आता है imported और local products की supply के अंदर. Right. So when we started off being a brand being an FMCG एक local player in the market हम इतने एक small scale से start हुए थे कि अब हमारी manufacturing increase करना और by the time आप अपनी economics की जब बात करें वो straighten out होती है considering कि हम अपनी export कितनी जल्दी start करते हैं. तो given this logic हमने export भी start next month इंशालाह. जिस तरह हमने waggles dot p k से Pakistan में retail करना अपना direct to consumer channel start किया था. इसी तरह से हमने baguels.a e से dubai में retail करना start करना है from next month. है. तो in this situation हमने जो conversions किया बात कर रहे हैं ना customer की तो जो very cool thing that we did initially when we started off we amplified it after the import ban was the try a sample drive. So we have this page on our website where you can log on to. You fill in your data, like, file fields का बहुत minimum सा data है, and, you can request for a free sample wherever you are in Pakistan. So we after the import ban, we started marketing this, and we got around, like, say, 1,500 or so odd sample request in a span of five days. तो उससे यह अंदाज़ होता कि consumer confidence Pakistan के अंदर जो है ना of trying something new and wanting to shift on to it has increased. That's also because of the younger generation because it makes sense कि यार एक नई चीज़ है. पाकिस्तानी बनी भी है, इसको try करते हैं. ठीक है. That's how I came across waggles as well because I went out one day and I was like this is much before the ban on any items happened.

I was like let me just buy everything पाकिस्तानी today, You know from the shelf to just see कि what are we producing? What are we making? Because हम अपने frozen vegetables भी बाहर से लाते हैं. हम अपना cereal भी kellogg's खा रहे हैं और हम अपना dog food भी बाहर से खा रहे हैं और chocolates भी बाहर से खा रहे हैं. तो and I was trying to make some content like you I want to be famous like मुज़मिल साहब I like हमें content रहा है बाहर भी पाकिस्तानी bye पाकिस्तानी and that's when I was like okay now we are to pick up some dog food and there is this brand called bagels out there and I am just going to pick it up and let's see how my dogs and cats respond and he responded really well and I also made a video about how they were and then to me that was enough for price margin. Do you speak economics and everything? I don't know much of that. But I did know that then it becomes somewhat my moral and ethical duty to just support local businesses if they're doing a good job. Right? So I switched over my cereal. I found some very good cereal. Inbox me. I'll tell you. Don't want to use brand names here. We're here for baggles. But some good local cereals, some good local fruits and vegetable suppliers frozen, some good ice cream makers and some great pet food now that's available and I couldn't have been more proud. So even if the price margin was उन्नीस बीस, I would believe that this is fresher. It would be definitely more wholesome in... Because it's closer to its source and that's something that we are encouraged to do as well, right? Eat closer to your source. So, for me, like, something coming in from Thailand and I was reading instructions at the back, कभी frisky Thailand से आ रहा है, कभी उसमें French लिखा हुआ है I am like, what is going on? Yeah. You know, and then one flavor she likes, one she doesn't like, it's expensive. So, I I wasn't being able to trust consistency, then we go and go like, नहीं उसको वह flavor है. Ma'am, वह तो तीन हफ्ते से नहीं आया है. You know, like what a fat. Product short है या फिर. Short है so I and then it start getting expensive. I had more than one animal. So you have one cat so you can feed a फिस्की but when you have 11 animals you know, फिस्की will make you poor. You know, you have to spell your clothes, That's sell your

absolutely true कि my grocery belt is. Am not just to feed animals now. Take care of them. कहा थोड़ी सी मैं एक बार value add कर सकूं कि as a responsible manufacturer ना बहुत ज़रूरी है कि आप एक grayscale operation से एक proper registered setup के साथ आप काम करें. And obviously you can't be exporting कि आप कहें कि अरे हम GST registered नहीं है या आपको distributor margin नहीं है. So there are local players in the pet food market who do not believe in the distribution model. And as a manufacturer या तो आप manufacture कर सकते हैं या distribution कर सकते हैं. आप दोनों नहीं कर सकते हैं. अच्छा. तो they are two separate businesses, right? तो you create a solid product and you ensure that you have even solid distributors जो उस product को leverage कर रहे हों. That's true. Market करने अच्छा मैं अगर इसमें again थोड़ा सा unit economics में मदद तंग करूं आपको. Yes बिल्कुल.

देखिए पूछने का मकसद दो ex general consumer side मैंने पुछ लिया आपसे. अब मैं इसको flip करता हूं business side के ऊपर. बिल्कुल. Friskies आपने कहा ना Nestle portfolio का brand है और होता क्या है कि आप आते हैं और आप आकर पूरी market में demand create करते हैं कि यार वह बुर्गी की चीचड़े खिलाना बंद करो और canned food की तरफ. Yes. Made in Pakistan canned food. और फिर Nestle आते हैं ढंडन ढंडन हमने finally लोगों production start कर दिया और suddenly now because of the muscle just the shear muscle आपको वह local पाकिस्तानी जो है वह दे रहा है x y z ढाई सौ का. यह लो जी दो सौ I am trying to say is कि in that so so एक direction शायद ये हो सकती है कि आपके पास आप कह रहे हैं कि यार मेरे पास इस वक्त एक एक business plan है and without going to the investor एक एक model थी ना startup style है मैं investor के पास जाता हूँ मैं कहता हूँ कि sir scale का पैसा आप दे I am going to do the cost of product plus there is a cost associated to scale and I am going to add that cost built in. Right. And in its eventuality over the next five years I am going to first of all build the demand creation. Right. Yeah, we buy you out right. Then

we start something called. Tuggles. Tuggles. You know like again. This is pure than waggles now.

Rupees into the business already in terms of investment into That's third party salary investment? No, are three co founders in total and this is 100% privately owned by us. Ok. So again beach में ऐसी private equity investments आऐंगे. हमने कहा थोड़ा चाहिए but again because this is the fun of doing it yourself you know. But अगर थोड़ी revenue की बात करूँ that reflects on the trust of the consumers जो उन्होंने इस brand के अंदर place किया है तो we clocked in about पांच करोड़ रुपए का revenue पिछले साल के इस fiscal year के अंदर. Right. तो coming from a home based startup kitchen to a brand जो है इतनी sale कर रहा है एक साल के अंदर is a phenomenal point अमार लीजिए. इसका आप समझे तीस पैंतालीस percent जो है ना वह आ रहा है e commerce से. ठीक है. So pet food के अंदर direct to consumer channel जो है e commerce again is something very close to me. So एक वह चीज़ है जो हम इसको एक बहुत ही subscription based model को लेकर चलते हैं because we know कि यार average order value अच्छा है और repeat purchase है. तो e commerce के ऊपर scale करना ज़्यादा cost effective है. हाँ. और distributor के बगैर but FMCG के अंदर obviously वो मज़ा नहीं आता काम करने के अंदर. Right. That's where the volume comes in. क्या आपको nationwide भी वो लेकर जाता हूँ उस sense में. Plus again we want the more markets you unlock with time the faster you do it the better it is. Right. So as of now जो हमने अपना next fiscal year का अगर मैं briefly उसे बता सकूँ तो we plan on tapping eight separate markets जिसके अंदर Africa, Middle East और ua E. ये दो तीन अगर मैं बताऊं उसके अंदर. तो the plan is to explore in those markets with a product that is unlike any other. अब अगर जिस तरह के products हम manufacture करते ना दुनिया के अंदर एक से दो और ही लोग हैं जिस तरह की चीज़ें बनाते हैं and they also do other sort of canned food products जो human consumption के लिए भी होते हैं. So it goes to reflection. जो बात कहे है वह यही है कि यार आपकी sourcing product कितनी solid होनी चाहिए ingredients की कि वो consumer का trust automatically उसके बाद how long build do tell me infest in the can? Canning अच्छा अनुषा this is actually very good question क्योंकि food canning जो है ना वो बहुत ही एक thank you for taking my job. Thank

I was a little kidney beautiful wing machine.

Food canning जो है ना वह बहुत ही एक world war के ज़माने का एक method of preserving food है. I know. यह एक misconception होती है कि fresh नहीं रहता है. Exactly. But it's not too sure. YouTube पर videos भी देख सकते हो कि Without adding preservatives? Without adding preservatives. Anything art interesting. क्योंकि आप इतने slim margin के अंदर locally operate कर रहे हैं. क्या आप कहें कि यार its next to I wouldn't say worthwhile नहीं है Pakistan में operate करना but वो आप consumers से price नहीं charge कर सकते हो. वाली जो आप international market में करते हैं. तो it's not obviously not like if you doing a favor by retailing in Pakistan. Obviously we are home grown brand और यहां पर जितनी जिस speed से population pets की grow हो रही है, एक statistic के sense में अगर कहूं India ranks number seven in pet ownership in the world and that's a big number. That's a big number. Considering कि Germany, UK, US ये सारे मतलब इतने ameri pet friendly, yeah. Exactly. So we are also on the trajectory. I not saying कि हम top 10, हम top पचास में भी नहीं होंगे शायद but we are getting there. हमारे पास एक youth का insane bulge है. Yeah. जो urbanization के बाद और मतलब उस तरफ चल पड़ा है जहा पर pets रखना है, बहुत ही normal सीमा हो गई है. I mean I have been contacted by people who are now in सियालकोट and राहिमीर खान with shelters.

Yeah. I know she, I am a wonderful shelter राहिमीर खान. You must visit. Was like I am so proud of you.

Keep at it. Keep at it. And in the same sense I just want to add to this कि जैसे हमने जो अपना DTC जो था direct to consumer we scaled that to 33 countries in अभी 33 cities in Pakistan अभी तक. तो आप देखते हैं आपको लैया से, मुल्तान से, रहीमिया खान से वहाँ से आपको अगर एक बंदा अपने cart के ऊपर transaction कर रहा है बारह पंद्रह हज़ार रुपए की. तो यह बड़ा trust show कर रहा है वह उस चीज़ के अंदर. उसके अंदर payment भी आ जाती है उसके अंदर. And this is going through a partner let's say TCS or any of those? Is this again? In your own distribution channel? जो हमारे traditional distributors है we use, we leverage those to extend their services. It's an easier pitch to distributors as well कि आप अगर retail market में भी cater कर रहे हो, we are giving you the e commerce support as well. Right. So if you are advertising nationwide, आप एक certain conversion rate lock है उसके ऊपर. Have met people recent times के अंदर जिनका दो तीन percent का conversion rate होता है वो बहुत कुछ होते अपने everything that we were doing pre the ban, it's not like कि हमने वह चीज़ें plan नहीं की थीं but we just accelerated on it.

Yeah, exactly. बिल्कुल. अच्छा, इसमें एक चीज़ मुझे यह बताएं कि in terms of quality, you did mention kids natural and so natural has its own caveats in terms of how it sort of works. When we used let's say something like friskies तो मेरी बिल्ली बहुत थोड़ा खाती है and so I would use it across multiple. I mean at least एक तो दिन में वो दो दफा या तीन दफा में दे दो. तो मैं ज़्यादा दिन दूंगा. Just the one can is split into. Just the one can. अगर वो थोड़ा सा मैं उसको सारा डाल दूं तो वह फिर सूख जाता है और बताया है. बिल्कुल ऐसी है. So we just give it to her and then we put it in the fridge. Right. That's something that I saw. वह आपकी बिल्ली है.

याद रखिएगा. She doesn't represent all बिल्ली. Absolutely.

So essentially what I am saying is कि as as let's say. मेरे पास दो बिल्ली है और दो बाहर की बिल्ली है मुझे सबका पता होता है. कि जो consumer for example अगर fridge में डाल रहा है उसके लिए इस इस तरह का particular can जो है वह मैंने यह देखा कि वह फिर dry out हो रहा था in the fridge right and I understand तो वो जो है obviously that's preservatives and all those. We know who is not sponsoring your show now.

Next you are like selling McDonald's.

But McDonald's if you are listening I love to have someone over and explain the thought process behind that But so what's the thought there and I understand local consumer के लिए in the absence of an alternative that's just I mean it works. Right. But you are really talking about, you are really bullish on exports. Can I interrupt

here and just say that so what I do is, my cat also, one of them has a very small appetite? Right. And so when I put her half a can and if she say does not eat the other half, I put it in the fridge and once it comes out like any mother would do, I add some पानी in there. You warm it up in? And I put it in a micro and I put it back. अच्छा mic, पानी मैं डाल रहा हूं. Micro आप कितना करती हैं? कितने seconds करती हैं? दस second, बीस second. Not even. Look at their beasts. You know, they're, like, oh, whenever they're pooping, I'm, checking what their stomach is then. Serious to it. Because, you know, your gut says so much about your health, and their gut is amazing. So that is Yeah. That's that's key.

Yeah. Yeah. But I feel like when you mentioned, you know, she's a woke customer or a woke Mother. Mother. I feel like that's really what's now becoming slowly. I'm not saying I'm not being cautious optimism, but that's becoming the norm. It's really about देखिए in the absence of really knowing the SOPs you are going to be like this. आप किसी बच्चे को जाकर बिल्ली पकड़ाते हैं वह बिल्ली की धुप पकड़ता है सबसे पहले. Right and really it's about nurture and really telling them कि भाई what is right and what is wrong and हम we give unfair Pakistan को थोड़ा flag भी देते हैं because they don't know any better. And so for a lot of people like अनुषे who are now putting this out there in the public, a lot of people are watching and thinking कि यार अच्छा शायद था. मैं भी अपने जानवर के साथ यह करना चाहिए. Literally cat food चाहिए आपको मैंने पुछा था उनसे. हाँ हाँ. जवाब नहीं आया वो लग बात नहीं है पुछा ज़रूरत है अभी. But वो obviously actually million plus tons of messages there but similarly मैं आपको बताऊं मैंने पिछले दिनों ना एक मछलियों का tank बनाया as a pet hobby. हमारे खेलियों में रखते हैं. खेलियों में आप रखते oh god. आप shops में जाएं. मैं भी question देना गया एक shop में था F7 में बड़ा अच्छा एक ही shop है सबको पता होगा जो सलाह आबादी है. उधर में गया तो tanks गंदे green tanks थे. में कुछ available नहीं था तो I had to get even the soil and it's a planted aquarium so the soil was from one country and the plant had to become brought in from Denmark and everything and sorry sorry कि मैंने थोड़ा बहुत people like मज़ाने.

बेशक.

मुझे आगे जाना यह अगर Twitter पर लोग cancel करना शुरू करते हैं कि यार मैंने dollar का वो किया this is the only hobby I have and I didn't spend much dollar on much else but I really wanted कि यार मैं एक proper ecosystem design करूं और design के लिए मैं यह दिखाऊं कि यार देखें एक मछली को सही तरीके से का क्या तरीका है मेरा क्योंकि the idea for this particular tank was for my child because there is a lot of science in a fish tank. Is a lot of science. There is a lot of photosynthesis happening and carbon dioxide and the easiest way to teach children science is through practical experience. Yes yes. मैंने उस तरह से वह set किया. People are changing. The young people are really change. Really? Really?

You feel for? Absolutely. And that's why they relate to you. You know, you speak for animal rights, you find your market. You speak for fish, you find your market. Absolutely. The people who want to do better and they want to learn and ये

पूरी pet space जो है ना वैसे बड़ा high involvement category है उस sense में आप कह ले because कोई भी ना अपनी अगर animal की diet change कर रहा है या उस तरह के beach में तो it's a very conscious फ़ैसला. It's not कि वो एकदम से किसी भी चीज़ पर switch कर जाएगा. They want to know deep dive जा के उसके अंदर यार problem क्या है? ये product x y से कैसे बेहतर है? क्या उसका सिलसिला है? तो जितनी clarity obvious उतना बेहतर है. 100%. So coming back to जो मेरा पीछे question था कि you are really bullish on the export market and you are really talking about going into there as well. Pakistan में ज़ाहिर है कि the market is very in in in a industry is in a nascent stage and ज़ाहिर है कि you don't really have a lot to compare, you don't have enough knowledge and so it's

really just hair से. International markets are really competitive. Absolutely. Right? That's where the fun is. हां, and so वहां पर जाकर you really want to break in. You have to then really play all the business plays. Right? उसमें marketing भी है, उसके अंदर. हां, उसमें preservatives नहीं है. Preservatives भी है. So, I mean I feel like actually international में preservatives का flip है. So I was having a conversation the other day with this group of people from ex McKinsey. They're running this thing called Pakistan Environment Trust. Nice. अच्छा. मैंने वह एक घंटा चालीस minuteी conversations हैं. One of the best I've had on the platform. Because what they did was they explained how everything wrong in this country is an incredible opportunity for Pakistan of the world. Of course बिल्कुल ऐसे ही है. And and I will give you an example. He was like यार हमारी गंदम की yield बड़ी बुरी है. मैंने उससे थोड़ा सा पहले मैंने और so while as a पाकिस्तानी तो मैंने आपको बोल दिया कि uncle लेकर ना वह can मेरा दाया हो जाता है वह सस्ता होगा. But शायद गोरे को because he is health conscious. बिल्कुल. And and so something that is a complaint from me actually is an opportunity there where you can actually charge the premium and say listen like we are giving you top quality ingredients. Absolutely. Yeah. So how do you compete in those markets जहां पर वह ज़ाहिर है के the world is changing. There is there is these new narratives organic and natural and वो सारी की सारी चीज़ें. बिल्कुल. So how do you go there? And इसमें one last comment is मैं प्रसाद करूंगा कि probably the only problem in Pakistan exporting let's say meat products और food products is कि Pakistan में जो meat sourcing है there is no disease free zone का concept है Europe के अंदर. And the minute you begin to look for कि मैंने Pakistan में produce किया even KNNs अगर America में export कर रहे ना तो KNNs ने America में ही plant लगाया है.

तो वह Pakistan से जब आप निकलते हैं and Pakistan का जो fragmented infrastructure है और supply chain है वह आपका brand पर भी कुछ reflection They can question the quality of voucher selling out. Absolutely. And they have the right question. तो इसके बारे में थोड़ा सा मैं अगर बताऊं मुझे अमिल तो background में last month I think there was this headline that is the first पाकिस्तानी pet food brand that exporting raw क्या कहते हैं pet food internationally. But problem जो आता है ना इसके अंदर वह यह था कि वह एक अपनी raw material की source very good. Brilliant job done, wonderful. But at the same time अगर आप export नहीं कर रहे हैं ना तो आप, it's not sustainable. It's not sustainable और आपने net benefit add नहीं किया उस पूरे ecosystem के अंदर. That's what we want to emphasize on as well कि अगर आप अपनी raw material cost पांच percent चीज़ अगर आप import रहे हैं dollar दे के तो आप 100% बाहर भी तो कुछ भेजें जाके आपको उसका against सही value मिले उस चीज़ तो and वही बात है मज़हब्मिल इस तरह के जो products हैं I can give a few example of those. I won't name those brands but there are only two to three of them जो globally इस type की चीज़ बना रहे कि अगर आप हमारा एक variant है cat food का fish and shrimp recipe in broth. So if you pop the can open you will distinctly see four actual pieces of boiled shrimp in the can. अच्छा. तो इसको manufacture करना एक large scale के ऊपर, mass scale के ऊपर considering कि आपने quality शोर करनी है धाय रेवती की भी बात है weeks, four weeks की बात कर रहे हैं. Everything has been increased 20% का jump. Biscuit manufacturers ने 10% का increase दिया है price के अंदर. The prices of everything has gone up except for our pet food. We are actually running a discount code with her name. A 10% discount code nationwide and yeah तो अब ऐसा एक system build करना है जिसके अंदर आपकी पूरी value chain हो ना वह consider करना बहुत ज़रूरी है. We started off from a point where we were sourcing chicken from left, right and center everywhere we could. Now we have graduated to the point कि we are sourcing our chicken from KNN directly in लाहौर. Right. So they send us their supply over here क्योंकि quality is so auditing and वहाँ पर फिर आपकी वो हो सकती है. Yes plus और तो Pakistan में कुछ ऐसे meat exporters हैं जो उनका जो raw material है जो यहाँ से वो export करते हैं for other human consumption whatever consumption वो FD approved है. Right. In country for a very long time. Considering कि अड़तीस items की list थी 38 items की list थी उसमें pet food was one of the things that was extremely talked about for. More than chocolate and stuff. Exactly. The funny part and.

Because it's not a luxury item. Absolutely.

इसको luxury के अंदर blanket करके ban करना is not the right thing for me. But

but I mean, I guess, they came, not that I'm supporting that. I think banning is never a solution. Let the free market decide that. इस case में अगर ये साहब ना होते ना तो शायद मैं कहता है कि भैया क्या करूं? लेकिन thankfully we had an ultra attack. And I think this really gives you a space to to देखिए

business. Yeah, yeah. I will name it as well. It's a whittle cream cheese. आप उसमें export करें तो it's it's again वही बात के पक्क चीज़ है. Import हो रहा है. आपने local substitution उसकी करनी है. Export की तरफ जाना आपका industry में. मतलब आपसे यह तो नहीं कह रहे है ना कि यार कोई smart

driving, flying car बना दें. भाई, यह तो basics हैं अगर हम आज तक इधर नहीं पहुंचे तो बड़े शक्तिश शर्मेंद्र की यही बात है. जबकि create this demand as a citizen,

the more better it will get. Yeah. Because then they will have the money and the resources to get better material. Put in the trust build करने में लगता है time. You have to give it that time that the consumer will need that time कि वह इतना time आपका product use करेगा उसके बाद को थोड़ा trust build होगा तो वह उसके और grow हो जाएगा. So my birthday, my birthday resolution also this year January was that जिसकी भी साल गिरा होगी उसको मैं local business से कुछ खरीद कर दूंगी. Oh wow. And then I started discovering small businesses that are making the best leather bags, wallets, notebooks, plants, clothes, you know, hand painted flower parts like lanterns, you name it. Yeah. And I was like, it's there. Yeah, there. So it was so amazing because I discovered like a whole new world out there. And I was like, you know, these people are and then they customize it. They take so much interest. They do so much मेहनत. बिल्कुल. And, you know, it's so easy to pay for it and I was like, I'm like done in terms of

बाहर की चीज़ें. I am more into बाहर की experiences now. Yeah. And I am into local things. Right. You know? Makes sense. Guys, we are going to, we are at the one hour mark and I am going to wrap this up as well. I am going to ask both of you one question that generally I ask all of my guests on the show. Based particularly क्योंकि आपने जिस industry में आप काम कर रहे हैं एक एक नई चीज़ है और being an earlier doctor or being the one of the first. Am sure there might be other players but जिस level के ऊपर आपने किया ना आपका बड़ा आपने एक सोच के साथ किया और आप quality के साथ किया कर रहे हैं. तो आपके ऊपर एक responsibility भी आती है ज़ाहिर है के क्योंकि अगर अभी आपने थोड़ा सा भी चीज़ up and down की ना तो वह पूरी industry पर impact करेगी. Right and alternatively अनुषा की मैं आपकी बात करूं तो आप you have been working in the media space. Yes. For for twenty years. You have got into it very very early. Yes. You know you have been in Pakistan. You have travelled if I were to ask you what do you think कि Pakistan कैसा होगा? तो क्या image आती है? Based on knowing what you know now, seeing what you have seen growing up, how do you see Pakistan of 2015? Will start with you.

Sir, I as a person I am very optimistic. चाहिए तो एक eternal optimism अगर आपके अंदर हो ना तो आप एक चीज़ को बुरे shape में जब तक एक system build कर रहे हो. And coming back to the industry वाली बात जो आप कह रहे थे, given the import ban situation, we have already taken aboard four five other players in Pakistan and we are wanting to make a pet food manufacturer association. Tower वालों की association है, footwear वालों की but manufacturers को कोई represent नहीं कर रहा. So along with heading Waggles right now, have also the chairman for this association and हमने इस चीज़ को भी as an initiative lead करना है कि Pakistan के अंदर हमने यह चीज़ build तो करनी है but इसको हमने Pakistan को as a global player in the pet food space हमने करना है. हमारे पास सारी resources हैं वह करने के लिए. वहां पर labor है, वहां पर agriculture है. We have everything that we can utilize to make quality pet food for exports. So it is going to take some time but obviously आप जो सवाल पूछने हैं, 2,050 के Pakistan के अंदर I would want कि एक large number of contribution towards global pet food is coming from Pakistan. Right. So that is the vision that I see for the country and I being an optimist, I feel that मुश्किल times हैं but as a country, as a nation, ये sacrifices पचहत्तर साल पहले ले लेते तो शायद इस point भी बेहतर होता. But moving forward, it's never too late and we should all hope for the best, कि there is a better future and a brighter future to look forward to. Alright. अनुषेत, what do you think?

See, where do I see Pakistan? I mean, I'm sort of a realist in that So I kind of just live in the moment and I try and do the right thing today. I do not think so far ahead. But what I would like to do is to leave something good behind. Right? And that's my only mission. I don't know where it will be, how it will be. Things could be unstable, things could not be stable. But as an individual I would like to always believe that I did the right thing and I left the right thing, you know, right message and played my part in doing good. उसके अलावा, I mean, where do I see the market? Mean, I don't know. I mean, sometimes I don't trust the government, sometimes I do. And I live in the now. I don't even know where I see my country tomorrow. But right now, if I have an opportunity to do something good, I'll do it. 2050, it's

too far away to think. Very interesting. I can't, I can't really. I've never gotten a present on our perspective. Interest

in 2015. That's

a very new experience. I was zero interest in 2015 at the moment.

I'm very interested in what we are eating tonight. Very interesting. Guys, thank you so much for this It was very insightful and, you know, I, I wish you all the best. Am Thank you. All, all power to folks who are Thanks to the customers. Actually, yes. Yeah, Thank you for believing in us again. Talent ज़्यादा and I look forward to seeing where you guys go particularly in the export side. I am excited to see, you know, ok, where do you guys land but thank you so much both in the Thank you, thank you for having us and it was such a pleasure meeting you. Alright, very much. Follow up here, Thank you so much for watching. अगर आपको यह episode पसंद आई हो तो