Why BYD priced its Pakistan launch under the hybrid competition

अस्लामुल, ख़बतीना आज़राद. Welcome back to another episode of Thought Behind Things. Recently हमने conversation की थी with the Indus Motor CEO. I was trying to understand the state of the automotive industry in Pakistan. आपको पता है पहले से मैं हमेशा से कहता आया हूं कि electric vehicles मेरे हिसाब से मेरा opinion है Pakistan का future है. जो Pakistan से बाहर लोग हैं वह तो definitely ना सिर्फ़ इसके बारे में देख रहे होंगे. They are clearly seeing the shift. You know, एक जमाने में Teslas हर तरफ़ थी. मैं भी Dubai में था तो Tesla is now old news. BYD आपको हर जगह पर नज़र आ रही है. And I was personally presently surprised जब Pakistan में BYD announce हुई. We found out कि Mega Motors company जो है वह local partnership के साथ BYD को Pakistan में launch कर रहे हैं. My understanding is they launched three vehicles already in Pakistan और भी वह लेकर आ रहे हैं. इसके बहुत सारे implications हैं. इसके environment के ऊपर भी implications हैं. इसके आपकी power sector के ऊपर भी implications हैं. इसके आपकी economy पर भी implications हैं. Particularly जब हम environment की बात करते हैं बड़ी वह boring सी बात लगती है लेकिन लोहौर के अंदर जब smoke के मसले चलते हैं तो आप लोग seriously उसके बारे में question भी करते हैं, consider भी करते हैं कि यार इसको किस तरह से potentially solve किया जाए. So I thought why not have a conversation with someone from Pakistan जो BYD को लेकर आ रहे हैं, किस फ़लज़वे से लेकर आ रहे हैं, कैसे वह Pakistan की market को देखते हैं और potential क्या है आने वाले वक़्त के अंदर? क्योंकि चीज़ बड़ी exciting है technically एक leapfrog है into the future जहां पर एक completely नई technology Pakistan में potentially introduce हो सकती है लेकिन हम थोड़े से ना बड़े डरे डरे से निकल रहते हैं क्योंकि Pakistan में दस बारह पंद्रह साल बाद ही चीज़ें आती हैं. तो to think that as soon as it is mainstreaming all over the world it is coming to Pakistan is exciting but also there are lot of questions. इसके लिए आज हमारे साथ मौजूद है Danish who is VP of sales and strategy at Mega Motors company. So thank you so much for being part of the show. अस्लामिल मुज़मिल thank you for having me. मैं थोड़ा सा conversation को start करूंगा I will jump right into BYD but before that just give me a quick overview of your education of your experience before BYD आपने क्या कुछ किया? Sure. So I

I did my undergrad from lums in math. Not a very popular major. Right. But I ended up doing it. This was back in 2005 when you graduated. Yes. I graduated in 2005. I don't want to date myself, but that's out now. So I graduated from lumps, and then I started my career in oil and gas. So I started working with British Petroleum first, and then also with ENI which was an Italian oil and gas company back then. Started in energy economics, very interesting field. But within a year I got the Fulbright scholarship, so I was lucky enough and I went to Colombia for my masters. I did that in operations research and then I came back to Pakistan. Operations research? Yes. बड़ी ही unique किसी भी चीज़ है. What does that mean? बहुत unique चीज़ है. So operations research is basically optimization of any kind. You know, businesses में, supply chain में and it's a mix between engineering and math and also business. तो तीन चीज़ों का एक mixture था. तो interesting था कि मैं engineering school का part था, engineer मैं वन नहीं रहा था, Courses मैं business school में लेता था. तो it was an interesting mix for me. Interesting. Columbia generally कहता था. I mean Columbia is Columbia people are just like कि यार my god what an experience it must be. I cannot trade that for anything else. I was I was very hesitant when I got in because of course New York का एक अपना charm भी है but it's also overwhelming and I remember going there as a tourist and I hated the place but when I went and lived there for a couple of years I wouldn't change it for anything. अच्छा. So it was great and I think the great part about that was you get to meet people from various different backgrounds, multiple cultures. मैं जिस जगह पर रहता था उसका नामी international house था. तो you had about 180 nationalities over there. So over lunch, over dinner you're talking to people about different things and just New York had that experience, right? Like you could you could be whatever you wanted to be and you know kind of have have that

ignition to succeed as I would say. Makes sense. Fullbright का एक weird चीज़ यह होती है कि you are already up so they take you to experience the most cutting edge education and वह आपको explain like सिखाते हैं दिखाते हैं कि दुनिया में at the pinnacle of innovation क्या हो रहा है? Right and then right at the end they have you have to go back and इसमें वही वाली बात है मेरा developing country so we will never be able to do the sort of things that are happening. Yeah. और उसमें जब आप further Columbia University add कर लें तो वह तो और भी ज़्यादा. तो did you get like a hangover after coming back कि यार मैं Columbia में क्या कर रहा था? क्या फलसफा हो रहा था? दुनिया कैसे बदली जा रही थी and now I am back in Pakistan? क्या मैंने pursue करना है? किस तरफ़ opportunities ढूंढनी है? What was that coming back and reintegrating like?

देखिए coming back is actually part of the program, right? So people do have that challenge कि मैंने अब दो साल वहां पर पढ़ा है specially अगर आप एक IV league based education ले लें. But I I knew going to Colombia and going to New York that I had to come back anyways. अच्छा इसमें एक interesting चीज़ है वह एक होता है reverse culture shock, right? Because you spend two years, three years in a country where everything is done very differently. You come back to Pakistan and then, you know, it looks like कि आप अभी तक काफ़ी पुराने time में रह रहे हैं. But I think that's part and parcel. It is actually a cultural exchange program. So it is not just us learning about, you know, new technologies and in you know, excelling in academia. It's also telling people what Pakistanis look like, you know, what our culture entails, and how do we interact. So I used to get a lot of, you know, pleasant feedback from people because they wouldn't be expecting you know when they hear a पाकिस्तानी a young मुस्लिम male this is not what they were expecting right? And this is before 2010 तो वह तो nineeleven के बाद बड़ा वह भी एक Yeah, ting this was after nineeleven actually the year that I was going that was 2006 Right. And we had just had the unfortunate incident of the London bombings. So I know that travelling even at that time for us was very difficult, you know. But that that was an an unfortunate part of travelling at that point in time. But having said that I think it was important to meet with the people over there and let them know what we think about. Right. You know how पाकिस्तानीs are in general.

वह एक additional responsibility खेल है उसको जो कि थी कि you know you have to introduce them to the right पाकिस्तानी as well. Yeah yeah and that was for me the exciting part to be honest पढ़ना तो बंदा कहीं से भी पढ़ लेते हैं. Makes sense and so you came back in 2008?

I came back in 2008 and I was asked to rejoin ENI You know, they were doing some exciting stuff. फिर उसके बाद I worked a little bit with Engrove. They were launching LNG. This was the first go at launching LNG, so I came in and joined that and I looked after some trading, commodities trading, which was also great. And then I had my first foray into power sector when I joined a consulting firm that was providing services to the USAID. So उस वक़्त USAID का एक program था emerging Pakistan energy project where they were rehabilitating Pakistan के जो publicly held जनको हैं उनको rehabilitate करें. So that was like a transformation, a turnaround of those assets. So I started working with them which was a very interesting experience क्योंकि आपको वह एक USAID का एक आपको cover मिल रहा होता है and knowledge मिल रही होती है and then you're interacting with, you know, these very important and crucial assets that are, you know, publicly held, you know, government held and you're trying to turn around them, you're trying to transform them. So, you know, as a as a young person at that time, you also have that urge to have an impact. तो उस वक़्त मुझे काफ़ी exciting वह लगा. I did that for a while and then I did some of my own consulting in the sector. I worked with AEDB for a while independently. एक दो मैंने इस तरह के projects करे तो, you know, because I like consulting

and then I like being in the power sector. You stayed in Canada for a while? Yes. What did you... Run me through from Canada to

to to now. Yeah. Okay okay. Sure. So I was in Canada for about ten years, nine to ten years. First, I did my MBA. Then I started off my Canada career working for the Ministry of Energy in Ontario over there, which was a great experience because you work as a bureaucrat, right? So हम यहां पर civil servant कहते हैं, वहां पर public servant कहते हैं. तो वह बड़ा interesting experience था क्योंकि आपको उनकी government कैसे function होती है, यह भी नज़र आ रहा होता है. तो I did that for a couple of years. I I basically set up an internal consulting kind of a team for them. So वह बहुत मज़ेदार role था एक. उसके बाद I went for my passion which was consulting. So I worked for a large consulting firm in in Canada and I predominantly focused on the power sector.

Power sector, energy sector, oil and gas. My understanding is कि Canada का जो यह sector यह बड़ा powerful है. उनके पास बड़े सारे natural resources हैं. I think वह correct me if I'm wrong. बहुत सारे अपना oil भी drill करते हैं. उनकी pipeline कभी प्रीति ना वही ख़ब चल रही थी कि यार वह indigenous इलाकों से जा रहा है तो हम pipeline नहीं बने देंगे. How big is Canada like what was that like for you in terms of कि the scale and वह industry exciting थी, generic थी, बस चल रहा था, मंडेन काम था या was there cutting edge exciting work there happening as well? देखिए उसमें cutting edge work भी था

और उसमें दोनों चीज़ें थी. There was a large emphasis on electricity at that time. उस वक़्त Ontario के अंदर एक नई चीज़ introduce हुई थी which was called the feed in tariffs which were basically आपको upfront जो है वह tariffs high दे दिए जाते हैं और वह यह कर रहे थे for wind and solar ताकि वह उसको expand कर सकें and at that time they were shutting down their fuel based assets तो वह अपने natural gas के assets पर move हो रहे थे. तीन coal plants थे उनके जो उन्होंने recently बंद किए थे. So there was exciting work with, you know, you're you're changing the energy mix and how are you incentivizing the sector and trying to get more investments into a particular technology. But देखिए उनके challenges हैं as developed countries have. You know? उनके पास यह challenge नहीं है कि मेरे पास बिजली नहीं आ रही. उनके पास यह challenge था कि मेरे पास clean बिजली नहीं आ रही. Right? So they they were at a different level. So that was again a very good experience for me और एक अच्छी बात यह थी कि while I spend most of my time in the energy sector, I did have that eighty twenty rule where 80% time went there and 20% I could do whatever. So I worked with the Ministry of Transportation, I worked with the indigenous communities over there. तो बड़ा eye opening experiences थे वह कि उनके challenges ही बड़े different हैं. You know and I was an expert witness for bridge project with the regulator over there so उसके भी अपनी excitement थी no doubt. Makes sense. So, तो you did come back at one point? दो हज़ार इक्कीस? End of twenty twenty one, yeah. Right.

And what did did you just jump back and then look for opportunities or did you get an opportunity and then decide to move back? No. First I made the decision that I wanted to move back. I think that was a much bolder move

And I think it was okay because I was very clear that I had to be back. I had certain goals in mind. And, again, when I came back, I talked to a few people. There was this opportunity that came by at Hapko where I was able to lead their new ventures division. So again exciting. A bit of consulting का उसमें overlay था कि you would be talking about and looking at new business opportunities, evaluating projects. तो that was the exciting part for me और मेरा यह था कि इतना Canada में रहने के बाद, वह clean clean सुनने के बाद, I didn't want to get into, you know, like, conventional conventional power. So, वह new ventures division का एक फ़ायदा यह था कि I could look at renewable energy. I could look at other clean tech. So, I think I just got fortunate कि I came back and this came up. Right.

So, again for those of you who don't know mega motor company के पीछे हबको है. It's a big name in Pakistan. They've been in power for a very long time amongst other things. And so like now I wanna I wanna get into the the whole EV situation that's happening. सबसे पहले तो मुझे यह बताएं कि for a lot of people they did not probably expect कि इतना जल्दी Pakistan में EV EV होना शुरू हो जाएगा और उसकी वजह यह थे यह थी कि I mean मैं अगर ख़ुद अपना भी देखूं ना I've covered electric vehicles and electric motorbikes and electric policy with the last couple of years. But वहां पर मैं भी थोड़ा थोड़ा से निकल था. मैंने कहा यार पता नहीं यहां का consumer मानेगा नहीं मानेगा. हमारा ना it takes a while. तो हमारे यहां brand association बड़ी strong है. You know very very risk averse and this is a risky bet. That is an expensive asset in Pakistan. And गाड़ी जो है वह मज़ाक नहीं है वह बड़ा सोच समझ के होती है. आप गाड़ी लेते हैं और उसके ऊपर उसके हर component के ऊपर कोई cover चढ़ा देते हैं ताकि वह जब बिकेगी तो अच्छी price निकालेगी. And so but over the last couple of years actually I was pleasantly surprised कि bunch of different brands came in Yeah. और पहले ठीक है वह थोड़े ऐसे brands थे जो कि known unknown but then when BYD announced that that really you know excited a lot of people. Yeah. And again Pakistan is a huge consumer market but उसकी automotive sector कभी भी वह वन नहीं पाया. You know Thailand का है और countries का है जहां पर वह population छोटी है but industry बहुत rapidly scale कर गई. I just wanna understand why do you guys, why did you guys decide and you were I mean leading the innovative new investments, right? So what was the pitch there कि listen we should start getting into something like this and this might just be the right bet. Why do you think Pakistan is ready for this transition now?

Great questions, अमित. I think there are a couple of things that I would want to discuss here. When we talk about internally how we were evaluating so inherently one thing that we were looking at was diversifying away from power. You know, power sector maybe had worked for a long time. You know, it has its own challenges, and there was a need to diversify from that. When I started looking at this, मैंने देखना शुरू किया पूरी energy value chain को, right? एक end पर थी power generation जिसमें हम already थे. एक end पर थे हम from a demand side, right? And I looked at electric vehicles as generating that demand. So even in internal conversations, this is how I always pitched कि, you know, देखिए हमारे पास, you will still remain in the value chain, right? अगर आपके DNA में है electricity and electrification and power generation, this will still be within the value chain but a completely different aspect of it. And electric vehicles touches upon multiple avenues of technology. There's battery at the backbone of it, Right? And then there's other components of an electric vehicle, which is very exciting for us. तो, or gate, this was not just done overnight. I started the journey looking at buses, looking at two wheelers, three wheelers, four. I mean, I know about all of those things which we don't need to discuss today. But this is how we kind of got to the electric vehicles. Right? And once we identified, okay, we want to get into electric vehicles, then we wanted to be just with the best partner. Right? So we worked with BYD and then, you know, finally came to an agreement and and we launched. In terms of the timing, I think two things happened in the automotive market which were of a lot of benefit for us. एक तो यह था कि just, you know, five years if we go back five years at the time when we were discussing it, तो Pakistan के अंदर एक, you know, एक implore हुई market जब आपके पास बहुत सारे OEMs आना शुरू हुए. पहले traditionally you had three OEMs, Japanese OEMs, तो उसके बाद फिर आपके पास Korean OEMs भी आ गए and then Chinese OEMs भी आ गए. तो एक हमारे जो वह Just for people's understanding OEM को अगर आप explain करते हैं what do mean by this? Original equipment manufacturer. So I'm referring to the auto manufacturers.

Right, makes sense. Yeah.

So so उस वक़्त जो ये auto manufacturers आए तो उससे फ़ायदा यह हुआ कि we didn't have to go over that barrier कि oh यह तो Chinese गाड़ी है, right? वह actually हमारे लिए बाकी लोगों ने कर दिया था. You know, कि वह एक Chinese गाड़ियां भी ले आए, उनको successfully launch भी किया और उनको success भी मिली, you know. A couple of them ran into an issue but that's different. But generally speaking, they were successful. So वह एक customer के mind में भी एक turn आ गया कि अच्छा हां, Chinese का यह मतलब नहीं है कि it is bad quality product और under quality product. उनके भी अच्छी quality का product हो सकता है. फिर BYD is a name in itself, right? It is the largest new energy vehicle, you know, company by size now. It's overtaken Tesla. It's, you know, anecdotally called the Tesla killer in multiple circles and we like saying that.

But just just to understand, how was it working with BYD? I mean, it's again जो आपकी वाली बात है ना कि BYD is is is leading a revolution at this point in time and I'm not just saying that you can literally Google it and and and everybody's saying that कि especially जो लोग China गए हैं ना and some of the cars that they've built are just Yeah. Mind numbing. And obviously people find it fascinating considering it's coming from China Mhmm. Which did not have a history of producing, let's say, cutting edge cars. What's the what's the style? I'm sure you've interacted a lot with their their teams. And so what's the culture like? What's the style like? How how's the BYD culture?

Two things that stand out for me from the culture perspective is first thing is that it is an absolutely young team, right, which means that they're very passionate about what they're doing. Right? Secondly, they have gone leaps and bounds in the research and development. Right? I was just there a couple of months ago and, you know, there was a conference that we were attending. And just in terms of numbers, they were talking about that they have at least a 100,000 engineers working at BYD, which is constantly producing, you know 100,000. 100,000 engineers, right? Right. That are employed by BYD. So that translates into, you know, consistent and constant research and development. So they want to be leaps and bounds ahead in technology. Secondly, they are very clear about one thing which I'll say here and I'll probably repeat in my conversation later. They want to be the number one company, the number one auto manufacturer in the world, right? So they have very aggressive approach. They have very aggressive targets, and that translates into how we are approaching, you know, addressing the market. So it's very exciting for me if you ask me because you want that passion, you want that

जिसको लगन कहते हैं ना कि वह उस लगन के साथ वह वहां पर काम करते हैं और उसी लगन के साथ हमसे काम करवाते हैं. Before the electric vehicle started coming in तो उस time पर जब हम बात कर रहे होते थे तो मुझे सबसे बड़ा उसकी utility नज़र आती थी वह यह नज़र आती थी कि it's a great oil replacement. अच्छा आम आदमी जो है consumer I understand वह यह देख रहा कि electric vehicle versus petrol vehicle मुझे मेरे लिए convenient क्या है और उसके ऊपर I'd I'd love to talk about that later on as well but I wanna start with a little bit of a top down. Yeah. कि holistically Pakistan कोई पंद्रह अरब dollar का सालाना तेल मंगवा रहा है. हर तीन से पांच साल बाद हमारा एक नाज़ुक mode आता है जिसमें हमारा कोई balance of payment crisis हो जाता है, यह हो जाता है, वह हो जाता है. And yes, I mean we have to, you know, increase our our exports and we have to earn more dollars as well. But जब आपका एक बड़ा एक single commodity इतना बड़ा chunk है जा रही है तो एक question mark ज़रूर आता है you know can I in the longer run can I reduce the overall oil imports? और उसमें ज़ाहिर है कि गाड़ियां are a major component and so it's it's very logic for me it was very logical कि यार अगर आप गाड़ियां replace करना शुरू कर दें with electric vehicles तो over time एक point आएगा जिसके बाद से वह ख़ुद से critical mass ढूंढेगी और आपकी directly आपको dollar की import की cost के ऊपर reduction मिलेगी. How do you think? Like is that a legitimate point या do you think कि उसकी कोई इतनी कोई significant reduction है नहीं?

नहीं definitely reduction है and आप बिल्कुल सही कह रहे हैं. देखिए इस वक़्त हमारा fuel import bill is anywhere between 14 to $16,000,000,000, right? And you are rightfully saying that about you know 60 to 80% of that goes directly to the transportation sector क्योंकि देखिए अब हमारा पहले एक dependency for power generation लेकिन अब हमारी power generation की requirement भी कम है. हम कुछ localized fuel pick के ऊपर भी वैसे ही move हो चुके हैं. तो वह fuel जो import bill है that is more reflective of our transportation requirements now, right? अच्छा, इसके अंदर interestingly if if we consider a small, you know, use case की अगर मैं बात करूँ तो अगर मैं सिर्फ़ four wheeler vehicles की इस वक़्त बात करूँ तो इस वक़्त तकरीबन चार से साढ़े चार million गाड़ियाँ registered हैं Pakistan के अंदर four wheelers, right? जिसमें हर तरह की गाड़ी आ जाती है, छोटे आपकी light commercial vehicle को भी आप डाल दें, तो ये चार साढ़े चार million क्या आपकी है? अगर आप यह assume करें at at some point in time 10% of this is going to be new energy vehicles or electric vehicles or plug in hybrids. So you're looking at 400,000 vehicles in operation at that time. 400,000 vehicles that are electric or plug in hybrids would mean कि आपका चार सौ million dollar से कमस कम import bill गिर जाएगा. This is just right of the bat. अभी हमने efficiencies की बात नहीं करी है, अभी हमने इस number को increase करने की बात नहीं करी है. अभी हमने इस number के अंदर two wheelers, three wheelers, buses को नहीं डाला है. हमारी एक बहुत बड़ी HD की import होती है जो कि जाति ही for आपकी trucks and buses हैं. Right. Right? तो और इसमें वह रिक्शे की अजीबूगरी बनाऊंगी आवाज़ भी ख़त्म हो जाएगी. जी जी जी जी. अभी हमने three wheelers की जैसे मैं कह रहा हूं हमने इसमें नहीं included Right. So just imagine the impact that's $400,000,000 worth of an impact which is not small. Right. And and 10% of that is also very achievable. I am talking about units in operation, right? मैं नहीं कह रहा साल के चार लाख बिक जाएंगे but maybe चार साल में, पांच साल में, छह साल में अगर आप इतने कर लेते हैं तो that's the impact you are seeing right off the bat. Makes sense and then obviously इसका second second

degree impact कह ले उसको जिसको ज़्यादा लोगों ने बात करना शुरू की जब यह आपका जो है October November का लोहौर का crisis होता है और last year तो it was just crazy like 2,000 plus AQI. पहला तो I mean I don't know if you guys have done research on this. How much of that air quality is is is driven by transport vehicles? क्योंकि बड़ी सारी thoughts आ रही थी. कभी कहा जाता crops जलाए जाते हैं उसकी वजह से हो जाता है. कभी कहा जाता है कि मुझे cloud एक ऐसा वन जाता है. And I don't want to be very वह एक होता ना कि self deprecating पाकिस्तानी tend to be like that as well. But यह मसला आए हैं जब countries develop की in fact I mean London का एक बड़ा crisis था nineteen forties के अंदर smog का. Crisis आता है it's really about how we are able to solve that. Beijing का आपको याद होगा एक ज़माने में they had banned के एक दिन even number की number plate निकला करेगी एक दिन और number की. तो countries में यह हुआ है. आज Beijing is I mean air is clean and the AQI is not bad. It's not in the 10 worst in the world. इस दुनाने में बस the worst in the world. तो we have to just figure out ठीक है? मसला आ गया अब उसको figure out करना है कि यार how do we solve it? Do you think कि transportation या ये जो गाड़ियां हैं इनकी replacement या इनको cleaner उसमें ले जाने से कोई बहुत major dent पड़ेगा?

Definitely होगा. आपने Beijing का example दिया है. Let me extend on that. Beijing के अंदर इस वक़्त अगर आप गाड़ी लेते हैं तो आपको बगैर auction की registration नहीं मिल सकती unless आप unless आप electric vehicle ले रहे हो. So there is an additional process. It's not just buying the car. You cannot get it registered. So they've just made it, herders डाल दिए था कि आपके लिए direct incentive towards. Exactly. आपने अभी London की बात करी है London के अंदर if you London proper metropolitan के अंदर अगर आप move करना चाहते हैं तो you have to pay levies to enter the city if you are driving a petrol based car or a diesel car. It does not apply to electric. It does not apply to electric. Interesting. You know. So in a lot of ways it's not these there are there are policy interventions जो कि subsidy driven नहीं है. Yes. वह behavior को थोड़ा सा disincentivize करते हैं ताकि automatically people find it easier to actually adopt the newer technology. Yeah. So, इनको हम कहते हैं demand side intent incentives typically. तो जहां पर rebates आते हैं आपके पास, जहां पर direct consumer को impact होता है तो उसमें incentives भी होते हैं and then there are also penalties, right? वह demand side पर आ रहे होते हैं. Coming back to your earlier question about अगर हम electric vehicle या plug in hybrid के ऊपर move करते हैं तो will that have a positive impact on on the environment? A resounding yes, ठीक है? और उसकी वजह यह है मैं आपको बता देता हूं. देखिए अगर हम इस वक़्त एक electric vehicle की बात करें तो on paper it has zero tailpipe emissions, ठीक है? लेकिन Pakistan के अंदर fuel mix is not clean, ठीक है? अगर हम उसको भी कर लें तो 70 to 80% reduction है in emissions from a conventional engine based vehicle. Is that, is that verifiable? Yes yes, this is verifiable. आप मैं नहीं कह रहा PYD कर रहे हैं जाकि Google पर check कर लीजिएगा. ज़रूर check कर लीजिएगा. इसीलिए मैंने इसको caveat भी किया है कि I am not talking zero tailpipe. I am still considering कि

Power gen के ऊपर आपके कितना लग रहा है? Yes. इसी तरीके से अगर आप plug in hybrid की बात हो I think this वैसे as a quick pause. Generally, Pakistan के mix के अंदर you have a lot of hydril, you have a lot of nuclear. उसकी वजह से वह automatically वह तो zero emissions ही effectively. It's the coal and the other ones जो कि थोड़ा सा उसके अंदर लेकर आए. जी जी जी बिल्कुल. बिल्कुल. Fuel based जो भी हमारी power generation है.

Similarly, हम plug in hybrids की बात करते हैं तो उसके अंदर जो reduction है that's 60 to 80%. So वह भी एक factor है. तो definitely, you know, if you move to these vehicles in your transportation sector, this will have a huge impact on the environment. इसको मैं एक और level आगे लेकर जाता हूं. वह जो मैंने आपको 10% का number कहा था अगर हम चार लाख गाड़ियां इस वक़्त units on operation हो जाते तो annually आपके पास तकरीबन पांच सौ, पांच लाख या छह लाख tons of CO2 emission reduction होगी. Actually. If you move to 400,000 cars that are going to be electric any given year.

और इसको आप like इस जो number आपने दिया है यह आप linearly multiply कर सकते कि चार चार पर यह तो आठ पर यह होगी बारह दिन? नहीं of course linearly नहीं होता but

इसमें क्योंकि कुछ restrictions भी आती हैं. Linear नहीं होता लेकिन yes जब आप इसका दस का बीस करेंगे तो वह पांच का दस नहीं हुआ तो आठ हो जाएगा. Right. Right? But that impact is still there. अच्छा to add on to this point, जो एक चीज़ हमारे लिए काफ़ी fortunate हो गई है वह इसलिए है कि देखिए BYD as a company is very gung ho on emission reduction. उनका एक cooled earth by one degrees का program है जिसके अंदर already उन्होंने तकरीबन कोई 60,000,000 tons of CO2 emission reduce कर दिए, right? And which is equivalent to planting 1,000,000,000 trees, ठीक है? So this is not just us thinking about as a local partner. The fortunate part is that the global partner that we have is thinking on the same lines. They are driven by you know bringing sustainable transportation, mobility to all of the regions that they are working in. Makes sense.

Top down हमने कर लिया थोड़ा सा ना मैं bottom up आता हूं. Yes. Consumer जाना उसको डेढ़ रुपए का फ़र्क़ नहीं पड़ता. वह कहता है कि यार भैया मुझे सस्ती चीज़ दो और you know मुझे comfort दो. मुझे at a good price दो और मुझे you know I I I wanna avoid maximum ये होगा कि हां running cost मुझे avoid करनी है. So it's yeah. Economics I think is the primary driver in in these in in in cars और even जो बात की भी उसमें होती है कि initial price कैसी है? Resale कैसी है? वह एक बड़ा important component. बिल्कुल. अच्छा मसला नई गाड़ियों का यह होता है. I got a But at the end of the day BYD is big all over the world majority of Pakistan has no idea and so that's a major concern for the consumer. अगर मैं as a starter सबसे पहले आपसे यह पूछें there are multiple questions here but as a starter cost में for the same category of car जो जो जो fuel petrol based available है जो पुराने brands की available है where have you priced yourself?

Ok. So this is where I get really excited. So two parts to your question. देखिए, मैं very rightfully so. The way we look at it is we call it the total cost of ownership. ठीक है? तो उसमें आपकी गाड़ी की upfront cost भी आ जाती है, आपकी running cost भी आ जाती है, maintenance cost भी आ जाती है, and to an extent the resale value also gets factored in. Now, let's leave the TCO on the side. I'll come back to it. आपने पुछा कि where did we price our car? So, we have introduced two models and three variants in total. Our introductory car is called the Atto three. It's an SUV, a C-Class SUV जिसको कहते हैं. It's priced at 8,990,000.

ठीक है? So, you just keep that in mind for a second. Competitors 10 से ऊपर ही आ चुके सारे. मैं उसी पर आ हूं. कोई competitor है 10 से कम पर? I don't think so.

जो नए वाले हैं नहीं. We have a couple of competitors still that do have cars in that category. लेकिन अब मैं उसी point पर आ रहा हूं and I'm and you said it I didn't. जब भी competition की बात होती है, I always want somebody else to say it. Right. But हमने price किया है 8.99. Right? This is a completely built unit, CPU imported from China that we are selling right now in the market, which is a fully electric vehicle. Gives you 400 kilometers on a four and ten kilometers on a full charge. ठीक है? There are options in the market which are hybrid that are higher than we are priced and they're locally assembled. Right? In some instances, there are claims that they are also localized which means कि ना सिर्फ़ वह locally assembled हैं, वह local parts भी use करते हैं. Right. Right? So imagine अगर मैं नौ million पर गाड़ी ला सकता हूं which is completely built in China and imported with the duties and taxes impacting me. तो आप सोचें कि what is the opportunity when we start producing and local assembly in Pakistan?

इसके ऊपर मैं normally यह कहूंगा बड़ा exciting है. लेकिन ना पाक्ष्टानी होने के नाते हैं ना मुझे डर लगता है. अच्छा. ठीक है. मुझे डर यह लगता है कि यार logical बात है आपकी. यही exactly बात यही ख़ाब था हमारा कि यार local गाड़ी बनना शुरू होगी और finally एक हमारे scope में एक affordable गाड़ी आना शुरू हो जाएगी और हम सबके सब गाड़ियां चलाएंगे. Problem यह होता है कि I don't know लोग कहते जी mafia खड़ा हो जाता है. कहते हैं कि यार ठीक है सब मिल मिलाकर के बस इतनी price रखो और इससे ना जाने दो. कभी कहते हैं कि यार government जो है वह dollar price के ऊपर control करती है we'll have we'll talk about that later on as well. Do you think कि what I'm trying to understand is is this happening कि यह तो समझ आ गई जिसको अगर अभी तक नहीं समझ आई तो idea is basically कि fully imported unit जो है उसके ऊपर taxes ज़्यादा होते हैं. उसके ऊपर cost आपकी dollarized ज़्यादा है. अगर आप उसको localize कर देंगे उस पर taxes भी कम हो जाएंगे और उसके ऊपर आप cost reduction भी कर लेंगे. And so you now you have you will at that point in time have margins to even play with the pricing. Yes. The question for me principally is how are you able to do that because this is newer technology जो कि हमेशा हमने तो यही सुना था कि यार electric vehicles जो हैं वह हमेशा ज़्यादा price की होगी because वह नई technology है लेकिन वह आपको running के ऊपर बचा लेगी पैसे. Yes. Right? Is this because BYD का scale बहुत बड़ा है कि they they been able to in fact कल ही पढ़ा था कि China में उन्होंने further reduction की अपनी certain ranges की like they are going towards crazy competitive pricing. Yes. How are they able to do that? Like क्या आप लोग इसके ऊपर cuts ले रहे हैं? क्या आप लोग इसके ऊपर पैसा का dump कर रहे हैं? Losses ले रहे हैं या actual में दस जो उन्होंने process दिया है that's actually cheaper than the competition? देखिए there are a couple of things जिसमें मैं आऊंगा and I'll come back to the TCO as well जो total cost of ownership की मैं बात कर रहा था.

देखिए BYD को जो एक certain advantage है वो ये है कि BYD is predominantly or was a battery manufacturer. अगर इस वक़्त आपकी गाड़ी की price के अंदर 50 to 60% cost ही battery की है और BYD is at the cutting edge of the technology that they're using, you know, with the most energy dense batteries that they can bring in, the the safest and whatever technology that they're introducing. तो आपके पास inherently you become competitive because you are able to make sure that as a product when you introduce the electric vehicle it comes out competitive. तो एक तो वहां से advantage आ गया. दूसरा देखें when we introduced or we wanted to introduce in the market we also wanted to make sure that वह जो Pakistan में दो साल, तीन साल पहले जो electric vehicle को luxury के साथ associate कर दिया गया था, तो वह misnomer को भी हम side पर रखें, right? When those cars were introduced, people weren't necessarily buying them because they were electric. They were buying them because they were certain brand cars and were associated with with luxury. Right? So we wanted to come in the market with a product that could move you very quickly from जैसे आपको पता देखिए technology के अंदर adoption की जब हम बात करते हैं तो you will always have the innovators, you will have the early adopters and you'll have the mast mass, you know, adoption, right? So we wanted to get into a product that could quickly move into mass adoption. Right? इसलिए हमने बड़ा comparatively price करा अपने product को because हम चाहते हैं कि the benefit move moves on to the customer. Right? Because they need to get the confidence. Now I'll come back to the total cost of ownership, right? And I'll also explain one other concept which might be helpful. देखिए total cost ownership में मैंने आपको गाड़ी की price तो बता दी and we have come to that conclusion that it is still cheaper than some of the hybrids that are in the market, some of the locally assembled hybrids,

right? Just for context, in terms of आपने compact SUV तो बोल दिया but in terms of the feature sets that are available, in terms of the material, is it comparable? Are you cheaping out on the on any of those to bring the price down या आप claim कर सकते हैं at least कि यार हमारा either same or better.

It's same or better for sure

for sure in the feature set. And this feature set is the same as what is available globally or have you played around with it? No no no, so देखिए there are multiple variants that are available.

Thailand की market में different variants होंगे. China के अंदर अपने different variants होंगे. Pakistan के अंदर हमने एक variant launch किया for this for exactly that reason because we did not want to cheap out. Right. And let me add to that. जब हमने यह launch किया, उसके बाद we went back to BYD and we said कि how can we sweeten the deal? Right? So we were like अच्छा हम कोई features तो हर चीज़ में नहीं change कर सकते but this is what we did. जब हमने launch किया उस वक़्त गाड़ी के साथ मिलते थे आपको 17 inch के rims. जब गाड़ी deliver हुई that was with 18 inch rims.

Really? तो पैसा जो है वह 17 का दिया हुआ था? Yes.

And we did not charge anything extra for that. ठीक है? इसी तरीके से another upgrade that we did was कि हमारी जो गाड़ी के अंदर जो starter battery होती है that is typically you know lead fuel की battery होती है वो. BYD ने कहा कि हम इसको भी replace कर रहे हैं with lithium ion battery के साथ, which meant कि इसकी जो warranty है, that will go from one year to six years. Right? Interesting. So that was another additional feature. And one additional feature that I get this surprised by was कि it has an automatic tailgate. Right. And I'll tell you why I get surprised by because when we were launching I was at the auto show and you know a lot of customers are coming in. So I remember one customer came up to me and he started talking to me कि यार आपके बड़े features हैं लेकिन इसमें ना automatic tailgate नहीं है. तो मैंने ऐसी उसको मज़ाक में कहा कि तो मैंने कहा so क्यों उससे क्या फ़र्क़ पड़ता कहता है नहीं होना चाहिए. मैंने कहा नहीं होना चाहिए. कहने लगे क्यों? मैंने कहा क्योंकि आपका गाड़ दरवाज़ा बंद करेगा. आपको क्या फ़र्क़ पड़ता है? तो that was just you know joking around but that feature was also given. Introduced later. Introduced later on. Interesting. तो आपने जो feature set की बात करी ना it's feature set plus plus. Interesting and similar to sorry आप एक thought complete कर रहे थे उस जी time के जी मैं total cost of ownership के ऊपर आपको बात कर रहा था लेकिन this is a car at 8,990,000 यह तो upfront cost हो गई इसकी. ठीक है? अब हम running cost की तरफ आते हैं. देखिए अगर हम running cost की बात करें I told you that जो Atto three हमने introduce कराई है इसकी एक full charge पर range है four and ten kilometers. चार सौ ले लेते हैं एक उसके ऊपर, ठीक है? Which means कि जब आप इसको अगर घर पर charge करते हैं तो इसकी 50 kilowatt hour की battery है. तो आपके 50 units use होंगे. अगर आपके पास इस 60 unit अगर आप pay करते हैं घर पर तो this is 3,000 rupees. 3,000 rupees gives you 400 kilometers in one go. ठीक है? अब आप इसको compare करें with your engine based vehicles. ठीक है? इस वक़्त तकरीबन अगर आप, you know, इसी चार सौ की बात करें तो 10 kilometers आपको मिल जाते हैं per litre. Right? इसका मतलब है कि आपको चार सौ के लिए चालीस litre का petrol डलवाना पड़ेगा. इस वक़्त ढाई सौ रुपए की एक litre है. इसका मतलब है आप दस हज़ार में चार सौ kilometer मिलेंगे आपको. Which is which means this is less than one third of the cost of your fuel based vehicle. आपने थोड़ा liberal estimate लगाया मैं अपनी गाड़ी के हिसाब से लगाता हूं है तेरह kilometer जब मैं पांव हल्का रखता हूं ठीक है, makes sense. Yeah. And that's running cost होकर हर महीने की है. Maintenance भी इसके ऊपर effectively zero होनी चाहिए. अभी मैंने इसमें maintenance की बात नहीं करी है. Right. अच्छा, because it doesn't have an engine so the maintenance requirements are also reduced. ठीक है? आपने अभी हल्का हाथ रखवा लिया तो मैं ख़ुद ही हल्का हाथ रख लेता हूं. मैं यह कहता हूं कि अगर मैं इसको half भी कर दूं आपकी maintenance, ठीक है? अगर आप साल में तीन से चार दफ़ा अगर आप engine change करवा रहे हैं depending on your running, आपकी हर दफ़ा go Engine oil. Engine oil आप करा रहे हैं. तो वही आपकी maintenance cost typically जो preventive maintenance में यही चीज़ें आती हैं. Engine oil है आपके जो fluids वगैरह होते हैं, engine से related Tuning वगैरह हो गई sir. Tuning वगैरह, जी जी. तो आपकी requirement at least half हो जाएगी. ठीक है? So that's the additional benefit that you get in running the car. अब आप इसको imagine करें कि अगर आप साल में maybe बीस हज़ार kilometer चला लें, right? तो आप तकरीबन तीन हज़ार के हिसाब से आप पचास दफ़ हमारी गाड़ी को charge करेंगे, ठीक है? तो आपके डेढ़ लाख रुपए लग जाएंगे, right? वहां पर आप अपनी गाड़ी का अगर हिसाब लगाएं, you have the calculator out. I can also do the mental math but तीन लाख चौरासी हज़ार रुपए लगता मेरा portfolio. आपका आ जाएगा. Right. ठीक है ना? तो अब मैं आपको इसको payback में ज़रा बताता हूं. Right. अगर मेरी गाड़ी इस वक़्त नौ million के बजाय 9.7 की बिक्री होती तो दो साल में आपका payback था क्योंकि आपको साढ़े तीन लाख हर साल save हो रहे हैं या दो लाख save हो रहे हैं तो आपका तीन लाख तीन साल में आपका full payback है. This is if I had kept the price of the car at 9.7. अच्छा जो payback नहीं sorry payback आप किस चीज़ को कह रहे हैं? So मैं आपको इस तरह compare कर रहा हूं कि अगर मेरी गाड़ी की price 9.6 होती ठीक है. और एक conventional गाड़ी की price नौ million होती अच्छा सही है तो जो आपका extra margin होता वह आप payback नहीं निकाल सकते आपको तीन चाहे से तीन साल में वह भी आप cover कर लेते हैं. Just imagine that. Right. Right? अब मैं आपको एक और example दे देता हूं. I will not go in the math of this one. This is for you and the viewers. अगर आप compare करें there is a certain car that offers both variants in hybrid and also in petrol. So people can go back and check out कि वह जो differential pay कर रहे हैं for hybrid उनको कितने साल लगेंगे to get the payback? Interesting. That answer is not gonna be two years. Interesting और

इस case में यानी कि आपने तो खैर नौ में लेनी है comparable तो already जब आप खरीद रहे हैं तो आप already अपने पैसे बचा रहे हैं. उसके ऊपर आपकी lifetime savings है अब वो है. But इसमें पहला तो मुझे यह बताइएगा battery आपने छह साल की warranty दे दी assuming कि छह साल तक? Six years is on the starter battery, eight years on the battery that drives the vehicle with the motor.

There are two sets of batteries in the car.

अच्छा अच्छा वह वाली जो जो main आपकी सामने वाली battery होती है उसको आपने flip. That's six years और जो जो main battery है हमारी this is a blade battery that's eight years. That's eight years. But आपने कहा कि पता नहीं 40 to 60% price जो है वह battery की है मुझे पूरी battery replace करनी पड़े और उसके ऊपर एक मुझे massive cost आकर लग जाए तो मेरी जो सारी accounting out हो जाएगी. How does that factor? So I'll clarify here.

I said the eight years is the warranty on the battery. That's not the life of the battery. Life of the battery is calculated in life cycles. So, हमारी जो battery है ATO three में उसकी life cycle है 3,000, which means you can charge and discharge the car 3,000 times. Now, here's another math problem for you. 3,000 multiplied by 400 gives you 1,200,000 kilometers. ठीक है? 1,200,000

kilometers कौन सी गाड़ी है इसे?

Ok, now let me continue and finish the sentence. 1,200,000 kilometers के बाद BYD claims कि इसकी battery efficiency goes down to 80 or 85%, doesn't deplete. This is not your phone battery. This is not another fruit logo company वाला battery नहीं है ये. Right. This is a different battery, right? Which means कि आप पहले तो मुझे ये बताया कि आपने 1,200,000 kilometers कब किए थे last? नहीं होगी, नहीं होगी. वो तो आप तो second hand गाड़ियां मिल के भी नहीं कर सकते. डेढ़ लाख kilometer पहुंचती है आप तो second hand नहीं खरीदते कि यार यह तो गाड़ी दबाओगे.

अच्छा interesting. So effectively your आपके scope के अंदर वह गाड़ी वह for life है. वह चल रही है yeah.

Interesting.

मुझे यह बताएं एक major question इसमें यह आता है Pakistan में जो critique करते हैं ना automotive sector का उसमें हमेशा लोग आकर कहते कि यार देखो India में क्या available है? हमारे यहां का AT and TW available है, right? Thailand में क्या available है? Dubai में क्या available है? यह model उठाएं as it is. PKR को dollar में convert करें. Mhmm. Exact variant और time देखें और कितने markets में available है? What's the price difference? देखिए the price difference will be on the duties that are we that we are paying. जो ex factory final price आ रही है हमारे पास उसमें क्या पाक्तानी variant Pakistan में वह महंगा है? जितना मुझे याद पड़ता है जो मैंने Dubai में ATO-three देखी थी that was एक लाख बीस हज़ार दिन or something like that. That would be similar price. देखिए we are similarly priced

जो landed price है जो एक consumer pay कर रहा होगा Thailand में वहां पर. वह same है. हम same है. देखिए Thailand में जहां हमने एक variant किया है Thailand में तीन से चार variants हैं. यह भी आपको सोचने की ज़रूरत है कि the policies in Thailand are very different, you know, as compared to what we have and this is a completely built up unit in Pakistan which is inherently more expensive in the पाकिस्तानी market the way the structures are. Can the consumers expect

one of the two things? Either the fact that if all things remain stable, the price may reduce once the localization and the assembly starts and or in case of a turbulent time the prices might remain stable. Yeah will we just look at कि sir जी वह थोड़ा सा turbulence आयी और फिर अब जो है जी पांच लाख बढ़ा हुआ दस लाख बढ़ा हुआ पंद्रह लाख बढ़ा हुआ है फिर

and we are starting June. We have not revised anything about the pricing, right? Dollar भी ऊपर चला गया है to be very honest जो था छह महीने पहले ऊपर चला गया है. There is no दो सौ पचहत्तर से दो सौ बयासी रह चुके हो. हां, there is no, there is no change in our pricing. If you look at the competition तो मैं तो अब हाथों पर नहीं गिन सकता कि कितनी दफा change हुई है price, right? Right. तो देखिए, we will weather the storm with our customer as much as we can. What I don't have in control is if the

is the if the government comes in and changes a policy, which we will talk about. We'll talk about policies in just a little bit because I'm itching to talk about that now. Multiple times आपने mention किया. But before that, I wanna address the consumers, you know concerns first. I think जो number two major concern है ठीक है आपने बेच दिया बरादश्या है गाड़ी मैं खड़ी कर लूंगा सारा खुद हो जाएगा. Multiple मसले आते हैं पहला यह है कि यार यह जो electric vehicle है Pakistan के खड़ों वड़ों वाली road के अंदर यह चलती है करोड़ा चलती इस वजह से और वही मैंने बेच दिया आखिर में. Pakistan is such interesting country के. Cash में PKR में जितना था उससे ज़्यादा महंगी बिकी. Yeah. सोलह साल, अठारह साल बाद. But वह ख़रीदार मुझे उस time इतना idea नहीं था. ख़रीदार इस वजह से वह कहता यार यह गाड़ी ऐसी है जिसको हम उठाकर रेगिस्तान में ले जाएं, बाड़ी में ले जाएं, whatever whatever वह सब चल जाती है. Electric vehicle seems like this, you know, cleaned up, nice, luxury feeling car. Yeah. But is it stress tested to run on पाकिस्तानी infrastructure which is pretty terrible. Yeah. If I may say so myself. कराची में गया हुआ था day before yesterday. It's gotten better. One thing I will say that इस बार का कराची का experience was a little better. कूड़ा कम था और roadऐं कुछ बनी नहीं थी लेकिन still you know खड़े बस आते हैं और बस आ जाते हैं. जी जी. How much of this has been stress tested?

How confident are UKR हमारी गाड़ी ऐसे perform करेगी इस infrastructure में भी? देखिए certainly we are very confident that the cars will perform in the in this infrastructure. Because देखिए, we are not the first market that BYD has introduced this car to, right? A2 three is actually a very successful global product for them. लेकिन here's the, here's the catch. देखिए मैं सिर्फ़ गाड़ी नहीं बेच रहा. Right? We are not only selling the cars, we are also providing the after sale services. हमने अपनी चार खुद dealerships खोली हुई हैं अपनी and we have one additional care center that we have opened up in लोहौर. So there are five facilities that you could go to if you run into any kind of situation. यह कौन से शहरों में? कराची लोहौर इस्लाम बाद में. तीनों में. तीनों में. Right. और यह आपकी अपनी These are fully company owned. Eventually will you branch out to dealers and वह as well? Eventually you will. Yes. Because देखिए Pakistan के अंदर, जैसे मैंने कहा we have very aggressive targets of, you know, expanding within Pakistan. You have to rely on the sub dealer network. Right. And this is exactly one of the reasons why we wanted to set up our own. Because we want to tell the sub dealers this is a standard we want. How married is Hapko to this? I mean Hapko is big,

जिनको नहीं पता Google करें. It's a, it's a, it's a, it's a good comfortable company जो कि उसको back कर रही है तो आपको confidence मिलता है. But Pakistan में history में ऐसा हो चुका है एक ज़माने में वह आई थी centro आई थी अगर आपको याद हो. जी जी जी. How much I mean how many eggs have you put in this basket?

देखिए I'll tell you a couple of things just for clarity so MMC the mega motor company is not only backed by Hubco but it's also backed by Mega conglomerate. MegaConglomerate is the company which is behind as a sponsor to Hubco and they have you know other lines of businesses. Right? So it's a big, it's a big business. Is there any that we can,

that we know of? So Pioneer,

Haly, you know, they have shipping lines. You know, so it's a it's a pretty large it's a pretty large group. Right? And then they also have investment into Hapko. So the investment is coming from both angles directly from the sponsor and also through Hubco as the as the company right? Right. So so we are not going anywhere.

And you are like you are in it too? Yeah yeah. Yeah for the long haul. Yeah. उसका आपने मुझे नहीं बताया in terms of आपने पूरा मुझे total cost of

BYD खुद दे रहे हैं, उसके beyond भी जो हमने life cycles की बात करी थी, it's not going anywhere. You are not going to run into a situation where the battery starts depleting to an extent where it becomes point of concern. ठीक है? अच्छा, इसके साथ साथ अगर मैं आपको बात करूं तो we can very quickly also see what's happening in some of the other markets. We can learn from them, right? अगर हम China की बात करें तो वहां पर electric vehicles BYD की आज से नहीं पंद्रह साल से बिक रही हैं. Right? Right now they have पहले दो models थे अब उनके पास बीस हो गए हैं. That's the difference, right? Certainly इसी तरीके से BYD has been globally in other markets already in different shapes and forms, right? So we are very confident वह जो एक issue आ जाता है ना resale का. देखिए resale का issue किस तरीके से आता है? वह इस तरीके से आता है कि जो आज गाड़ी ख़रीद रहा होता वह कहते यार गाड़ी में कोई मसला आ सकता है down the line या गाड़ी हो सकता है exist ना कर रही हो. आपने एक company का example दिया, they did not exist so that turned into an issue या कोई गाड़ी जो है वह बिक तो रही है लेकिन after sales service नहीं है. मैंने आपको वह भी बता दिया, that's also in place and we're not going anywhere. हमने तो अभी import से start किया है and set up our dealerships. We are also putting up our local assembly plant as of right now, which, by

next year, by middle of next year, we'll also have a first first roll off from the CKD plant. Makes sense. We are here in it to stay longer. Makes sense. The the the second biggest concern globally concern is the range anxiety, right? Yes. अच्छा इसको मैं concern तो दो steps में divide करूंगा. पहला यह है कि यार हमारे यहां कोई electric उसका network ही नहीं है at this point in time और यह एक ऐसी चीज़ है जिसमें individually भी companies कर सकते हैं but एक overall industry ने खड़े होना है जिसमें आप और उसके बारे में clarity भी नहीं है, right? कोई लोग कोई companyयां globally बात कर रही हैं कि battery replacement आप जाएंगे जो station में वह एक battery निकालेगी नहीं battery डाल देगी. कोई BYD का ही I think मैं recently देख रहा था जिसमें उन्होंने क्या पंद्रह minute में वह supercharger crazy supercharger कर ले पांच insane किस्म का निकाला है. Yeah. Not to say that you know people would travel that long every time but that that needs to be accounted for and then उसके दिरमियान में क्या मुझे अब motorway पर जाकर के अगर मिल भी जाते हैं कहीं charging station पहले तो यह भी ना कि innovative आपने कहीं लगा दिए charging stations tell me a bit about how you guys are addressing the range anxiety issue and the infrastructure problem in Pakistan?

Okay. Great question. So I'll just go back to a statement that I made earlier. जब when we were pitching this internally, one thing that I did not mention was that I highlighted that we need to come up with a holistic solution, which means we need to think of the charging infrastructure ourselves. ठीक है? Thankfully, that was also implemented. So, we have a sister concern called Hapko Green which is tasked with setting up electric charging infrastructure all over Pakistan. Be it on the motorways, be it in the cities, be it destination charging, right? That work is also going on. उसके साथ साथ as part of Hapko Green, another good thing that has happened is that we have done agreements and partnerships with you know I think now it's three OMCs. PSO के साथ हमने किया है, हमने I think अटक के साथ कर लिया है और पार्कों के साथ हमने, Total के साथ किया है and there are others in the in the works already. So what does that mean? Like what sort of partnership are you looking at? That means कि देखिए एक तो यह चीज़ थी ना कि मैंने अब charging station लगाना है. मैं कहां लगाऊं? हां. Right? When I partner with this o o m c's that कहां has taken care of. So अपनी सारी locations में integrate करेंगे? We will start with dedicated locations and then if it grows then it's a business decision. You'll be you can basically decide based on कि भाई customer कहां से आ रहा है, क्या proximity में होगा तो उसमें वहां पर coverage provide करना शुरू कर दें. जी जी जी बिल्कुल उसका एक heat map बनता है कि कहां पर आपकी गाड़ियां बिकती हैं, कहां पर travelling होती है and then you identify which location they should set up the the place. So we are working with three OMCs already. हम अपने charging stations हमने अपनी dealerships पर भी लगाए हैं. हम destinations पर भी लगा रहे हैं. We are working with commercial जो real estate है. We are working with apartment buildings. We are working with, you know, office buildings. अभी हमारा head head office is in Ocean Towers. We have one charging station over there. So we are developing that charging infrastructure ourselves. But here's the good part. सिर्फ़ हम नहीं कर रहे हैं. You will also see a lot from the government talking about कि हमारा vision है कि हर दो सौ kilometer पर एक charging station होना चाहिए. Let's commend where the effort is well taken. Government has also introduced a policy for charging infrastructure जहां पर वह यह incentivize कर रहे हैं कि अगर आप एक charger लगाते हैं तो आपका जो off take है वह at a reduced rate होगा ताकि आप एक reduced rate पर customer को दे सकें. Interesting. क्योंकि आपके दो challenges हैं ना. एक तो availability है, दूसरा मेरा price है, right? तो अगर मैंने availability का challenge को address किया कि government भी लगा रही है, उन्होंने भी I think 40 charging stations उन्होंने identify किए जहां पर वह खुद लगाना चाहते हैं. हम भी लगा रहे हैं और this is going to be a typical although I that's where the similarity should end a CNG state. Right. Right? But that's where it ends. Right. What's how much time does it take to charge? जो current वाली batteries हैं, जो current वाला chargers हैं. मैं आपको बताता हूं. देखिए मैंने आपको बताया कि 50 kilowatt hour is a battery size of of Atto three. अगर आप उसका example ले लें तो अगर आप एक 70 या 80 kilowatt fast charger पर जाते हैं तो this will take twenty five to thirty minutes. For 80% of full full charge? Is

it is the dependency of speed on the charger or is it also on the battery? So for example tomorrow there is a newer charger that is more like faster. वह क्या नई गाड़ियों को service कर रहा होगा based on newer battery types या वह existing batteries भी can leverage on that new?

देखिए charger में ना दो चीज़ें होती हैं जो हमें understand करने की ज़रूरत है. It's also standardization, right? जैसे आज आपके cell phone में USB-C से आप charge कर सकते हैं जो पहले नहीं होता था. Everybody had a different kind of a charger. So एक तो यह है standardization. Cross multiple different cars? Yeah. So इसमें जो हमारी गाड़ी जिस पर charge होती है, that's called CCS-two. इसका acronym ना पूछिएगा यह मुझे completely याद नहीं है. So that's called CCS two. Predominantly जो आपकी existing अभी गाड़ियां आ रही हैं और जो world over एक standard है वह CCS two का ही है. सही है. तो वह जो भी है वह standard follower है. वह standard follower है. आपको एक आसानी वहां पर हो जाएगी. हमारी government को एक recommendation भी यह है कि we should further standardize it ताकि that question goes away from every consumers mind.

What we saw was that they really went into technology. Yes. Right? So even within the cars the tech was a whole lot more intuitive than क्योंकि वह पुरानी वाली गाड़ियों का यह था कि वह Indian विनजन पर खेलते रहते थे और बस वह एक Android के टुरुना लगाकर दे देते थे. Yeah. But electric vehicles change a lot of that and, you know, the the screens were beautiful and there's a lot of connectivity to things that could happen. तो how much of that is integrated into your cars? And then also in terms of the, you know, the closest charging station, the this, that. How much of that is available on your phone to to be able to?

So that is under works. As I mentioned कि Hubko Green is taking a charge on the charging infrastructure. But one of the things that we will have on the apps that will be available is of course identifying the the the close by chargers, आपको उसके rates नज़र आ जाएंगे, कभी कभार आपको पता है rates लोग discharge वह करते आपको नज़र आ जाएंगे and another feature that we want to include is कि आप book कर सकें.

It start book कर सकते does take twenty minutes तो आप pre book कर सकते हैं. That's actually very interesting and a problem statement that I didn't think about. कि वह line में अगर आपको बीस minute के बजाय wait करना पड़ेगा that's खारी. इसकी जो pricing है जो commercial charging की है वह क्या deregulated है? Completely up to the station या उसके अंदर कोई government ने bars लगाएंगी? देखिए अभी regulated है but is it followed is a bigger question. Regulated

ज़रूर है at एक point in time पर and I might get this number not fully correct. Government ने किया हुआ था कि आपके पास capping थी कि आप कितना on top charge कर सकते हैं कि 30 rupees है या 40 rupees आप on top charge कर सकते थे per unit but that is under a previous policy. अब उन्होंने वह rate ही बहुत reduce कर दिया है जो कि offtake करेगा एक charging station from any distribution company, right? तो उसके ऊपर भी I think वह capping ज़रूर रखेंगे मेरे हिसाब से in the future क्योंकि S and O के सारा benefits सिर्फ़ एक charging infrastructure company के पास जाए, वह customer के पास भी जाना चाहिए.

So, regulated yes, implemented right now Probably not because अभी few and far between है. Makes sense. Just putting it out there. I don't know how much of that you can hear with this huge thunderstorm happening outside. So, I I do apologize अगर थोड़ा सा dip in the sound quality उसके उसके बाद. But environment is very charged. Environment is fairly charged. Last question on this. जो घर पर आपके charges लगे हुए हैं वह किस क्योंकि पास्तान में यह भी बड़ा problem है कि infrastructure बड़ा अजीब बिछा हुआ है. काफ़ी तब आप you know दो हज़ार watt का geyser लगा दें पूरा का पूरा घर trip कर जाता है बस you know पीछे से line ऐसी आ रही है. तो वह कितनी speed से खेचता है घर वाला charger? Yeah. और वह generally Pakistan के infrastructure के लिए I mean you probably did some sort of a research as well कि जो आपकी potential paying audience है उनके पास किस संघ infrastructure है? Did you find any concerns over there? So देखिए,

जो एक तो मैंने आपको commercial charger का बताया है. एक option आपके पास होता है which comes with our car. It's it's a two kilowatt charger that comes with the car. That's like a slow charger and you know that would take आपका डेढ़ से दो ton का AC जो होता है उतनी power वह खेचता है, right? लेकिन वह भी फ़ौरन मतलब सिर्फ़ एक वक़्त में नहीं खेचेगा it takes time वह. आपको I think थोड़ा बारह से तेरह घंटे लग जाएंगे, actually maybe even more to charge. वह overnight charging है. But उसके साथ साथ you also have an option कि वह एक wall mounted chargers आते हैं. We typically have it in seven kilowatt capacity. These are AC chargers, right? तो if you get them installed by authorized vendors that we have, then वह search protection भी उसमें आती है because you want to you want to, you know, derisk two things. एक आपके अपने घर के infrastructure को impact ना हो, दूसरा आपकी गाड़ी को impact ना हो. तो उसमें surge protections already built in होते हैं to cater for both of those things. Ok. And those are faster? They are seven kilowatt charges, so they're not DC charges, which are the commercial charges. I see. Yes. यह आप घर पर install कर सकते हैं. DC charger of course you are not able to install it. No, that I understand. But यह घर यह खेचते हैं, ज़्यादा खेचते हैं बिजली? जी जी, यह ज़्यादा खेचेंगे लेकिन देखिए जैसे मैंने आपको बताया एक seven kilowatt का load जो है that will not impact कि आपकी घर की बत्तियां dim हो जाएंगी. हां. ऐसा कुछ नहीं होता. वह फिर उसको वह manage जी जी जी जी.

अच्छा थोड़ा सा आप आ जाते हैं government policy के ऊपर. Multiple times हमने इसको we've alluded to this. Yeah. First of all इस वक़्त policy Two wheeler, three wheeler पर जाते तो वह तो सैंकड़ों आ जाती है उस price के लिए. Yes. इस वक़्त policy कहां पर ख़रीबी है? In terms of हम हमें यह बात पता लगी थी कि यार new entrant के लिए एक tax break और एक policy आई. फिर green या electric vehicle के लिए एक नई policy आई, hybrid के लिए आई. तो इस वक़्त what's the policy landscape overall?

I will use a term जो आपने use किया था. एक नाज़ुक मोड़ पर है इस policy. Right. देखिए there are couple of things. Government ने एक policy introduce करी थी जिसको हम twenty twenty one में उन्होंने introduce किया था जिसके अंदर which was for the whole automotive sector but also had certain concessions built in for the electric vehicle sector and we are benefiting a couple of incentives under that policy which is a good thing, right? Now recently there was also and it's in draft form already. I think it's in the final stages of approval. एक new energy vehicle policy भी है which is geared towards the electric vehicles, plug in hybrids. Any any weeks को हम वह exclusively policy है. वह exclusive policy है. Like वह आई नहीं है अभी. वह अभी आई नहीं है. Ok. There are certain incentives that could be beneficial for any new entrant or any existing player that wants to introduce a new energy vehicle but वह अभी आई नहीं है. अब वह horizon पर है yes. Will they come in a month, in a year? It's difficult. One thing that we need to be aware of is देखें as an investor and even for our global partner, entering into a new country, in a new market and making a sizable investment, what you need is consistency in policy. You don't want policies to be repealed or आप एक step back ले लें. तो यह बात हो गई policy की, but that's not the only thing that is impacting us. There is another discussion around tariffs that is going on right now as part of the national tariffs policy that will certainly impact us quite a bit.

And Explain.

That is going to impact us in multiple ways. एक तो यह है कि under that policy certain incentives are going to be repealed. Ok. मैं आपको एक example देता हूं. इस वक्त for a limited time जो CPU units आते हैं, import होते हैं electric vehicles, उसके ऊपर 50% concession है in the customs duty which means अभी उनकी जो slab है वह 50% पर है उसकी reduction की वजह से वह अभी 25 पर है. अभी national tariff policy के अंदर discussions में है कि this might go up. वह जो fifth schedule है that might get repealed, this may even go up to 35, 40%. This is for CBU's electric vehicles की जो मैं अभी बात कर रहा हूं. दूसरी एक और चीज़ जो कि terrorist के साथ होने वाली है, वह यह है कि they also want to open up generally the market to imported vehicles. Right. And reduce the customs duty to 50 up to 15%. They want to do it in phases and over time, but that reduction is also going to be huge. Right? That will impact directly your local manufacturers, that will impact your local assembly, that will impact your parts manufacturers that support that industry which is also huge. एक तो impact यह हो गया. एक और चीज़ जो introduce हो रही है वह यह है कि there is an opening up of used car market जिसके अंदर they want to एक अभी restriction है कि आप पांच साल से पुरानी गाड़ी नहीं मंगवा सकते, they want to increase that to ten years. एक और policy item है जिसमें वह कहते हैं कि 1% की reduction per month के हिसाब से आपकी गाड़ी depreciate हो सकती है. तो 60% reduction से ज़्यादा पर गाड़ी आप import कर रहे होंगे. उसकी duty भी कम लग जाएगी और वह price भी कम होगी. We are very concerned about these things, very very concerned because this is moving in the wrong direction. You know, at one side आपसे मैं अभी discuss कर रहा था emission reductions, you know, helping the local industry, all of those things. और अब हम बात कर रहे हैं opening it up in such a sense where, you know, local industry is at a crossroads of being hugely impacted and just imagine on the flip side, आप अगर used car vehicles को अगर आप open कर देते हैं like this, दस साल पुरानी गाड़ी अगर आना शुरू होती है तो यहां dumping शुरू हो जाएगी. उस दस साल गाड़ी की पुरानी की क्या emissions आपने थोड़ी देर पहले बात की थी when you were talking about the dollar impact. Imagine if we move to a completely imported economy. Imagine what's gonna happen? Do we have the dollars? Do we have the capacity? आपने कहा कि हमें balance of payment के issues होते हैं. अभी हमें तीन से चार साल में हो रहे थे. अब तीन से चार महीने में हो जाएंगे. Because it is not going to be limited just to the auto sector. This may open up other sectors as well and you also have to keep in mind कि end में कौन गाड़ी मंगवा रहा है, right? क्या यह वह consumer है जो इस वक्त एक, you know, एक category गाड़ी जो Alto जैसी एक गाड़ी होती है, उसको import रहे हैं या जैसे आपने अभी खुद example दिया था जब इन्होंने policy खोली थी तो तीन करोड़ वाली गाड़ी आ रही थी. तो अब यह तीन करोड़ वाली गाड़ी जब एक करोड़ पर आना शुरू हो जाएगी तो यह एक ही चार हो जाएंगी. Right?

तो we should not shy away from that. अब वह यही है कि आप अब आप जाकर वह mustards मंगवाना शुरू करते हैं वह चार kilometer जो है वह आपको देगी average लेकिन गाड़ी mustards चला रही है. आप चलाएं. अब वह petrol की जो उसके ऊपर overrun पड़ेगा emissions वगैरह वह that's that's interesting. Do you have any examples of other countries with with with progressive policies and I don't want to talk about the the developed economies. Right? So I wanna talk about emerging markets या middle income countries like, let's say, Thailand or Malaysia or or countries that we can compare to large population. What policies have they enacted to actually make it conducive for not just the homegrown sort of industry to grow but also and this ties to my next question as well. Do you think realistically not नारेड़ के लिए नहीं but realistically Pakistan as a as an export destination वन सकता है? क्या हम यहां पर गाड़ियों को assembly कर लें, assemble करके हम Africa भेज सकते हैं. हम Middle East को service कर सकते हैं और just in time shipment होती ना वह China के दस मसाले आजकल के हालात ऐसे ही घूमकर आ रही होती है गाड़ी. तो क्या हम assemble करके Middle East की market को service कर लें, Africa की market को service कर लें? Do you see that as a potential future या realistically हम अपनी demand service कर लें बस ठीक है वही काफ़ी है. देखिए हम

दोनों चीज़ें कर सकते हैं. There is nothing stopping us from doing that. आपने Not even the economics of assembling and then selling it? नहीं, मैं मैं वही उसी पर आ रहा हूँ. हम वह कर सकते हैं definitely and that is, that is an opportunity that we are also excited about. Right. ठीक है? अच्छा, पहले मैं आपका policy वाला question address करता हूं. We don't have to look too far. मैं दो countries का example देता हूं. I'll go in more detail for one of them. Thailand की इस वक़्त एक battery electric vehicle policy है, उसको BEV 3.5 कहते हैं. No points for guessing why is it 3.5. Right? So that tells you that it's consistent. It has been around for 3.5 versions. Interesting. Right? Interesting. So जो मैंने आपको पहले point कहा था ना the policy needs to be consistent and long term. I cannot have a policy for two years, three years, then repealed. तीन साल बाद हमें नहीं पता क्या होने वाला है. We cannot have that. So we need to take a leave from their learnings. They have consistently had a policy that has progressively provided support to the adoption of electric vehicles. But what's the policy exactly? अब मैं उसी पर आ रहा हूं. अभी इस वक्त electric vehicles की अगर मैं सिर्फ pure BEVs की बात करूँ, battery electric की बात करूँ तो इस वक़्त Thailand के अंदर adoption rate has gone to 13%. 13 to 15% पर पहुंच गया which is a sizable number. अगर वहाँ पे पाँच लाख गाड़ियाँ साल में बिक रही हैं तो पचास हज़ार से ऊपर इस वक्त electric vehicles बिक रही हैं, pure electric vehicles. अभी हम hybrid को, plug in hybrid को नहीं include करते, ठीक है? अच्छा वो policies हैं क्या? Those policies are similar to what we have कि आपके पास concession होना चाहिए on customs duties, आपके पास concessions होना चाहिए on taxes तो आप sales tax को आप reduce कर दें, ठीक है? अभी हमारे पास जो है वो sales tax जो है दो तनाके हैं. हमारी जो ATO three है उसके ऊपर पड़ता है 12.5%. Now another challenge is आपने range anxiety की पहले बात की थी. Range anxiety दूर किस स्थाना होती है? Larger battery से. अगर आप इस वक़्त Pakistan में एक बड़ी battery वाली गाड़ी introduce करते हैं तो उसके बाद 18% tax है और फिर 3% additional sales tax है. वह 21% पर है. Why would you do that? Right? तो इस तरह की policies Thailand में नहीं है where the sales tax has been reduced even in the new electric vehicle policy, energy vehicle policy जिसकी हम बात कर रहे थे, उसके draft में भी यही propose किया गया है कि the sales tax should be reduced, you know, maybe as low as 1%. अच्छा जो एक बहुत interesting चीज़ है जो हमारी learning है from Thailand is कि Thailand ने कहा है कि आप ना एक x amount of गाड़ियां import करें on reduced taxes, ठीक है? Reduced customs duties and reduced taxes. उसके साथ साथ you are only able to do that if you commit to setting up a CKD assembly plant. So you go and you do local assembly and you go and do localization, ठीक है? और Thailand ने उसके साथ साथ यह भी कहा है कि अगर आपने आज एक CPU मंगवाया और आपने तीन साल में CKD नहीं लगाया तो you have penalty to play on that one CPU that you did not knock off. So they have a knock off effect.

Makes sense but then the question comes in कि यार यह जो बातें थी localization की कब से सुनते आ रहे हैं और सबने बातें कि दो मसले अगर हम पुराने past को देखें ना past का जो डसवा पाकिस्तानी है वह दो बातें करते हैं कहता है यार यह localization का मंजन है Once you know जो आपकी timelines है उसमें? And then दूसरा यह है कि do you think you can be committed to making sure कि जो जो innovation globally आ रही है वह आप directly locally भी देते रहें and you don't just get stuck on कि बस यह अभी गाड़ी आ गई है अब दस साल अब इसको ही figure out करो. बिल्कुल.

देखिए, we we have the good fortune कि हमारे साथ जो global partner है BYD, it is driven by technology, right? Our product is a technology product. I don't call it a vehicle, it's a technology on wheels, right? So we cannot survive if we don't have that upgrades. So BYD will of course expect from us as a local partner and we as a representative of the global brand will of course want to follow through because then I I can't sell the vehicle either, right? देखिए वह time अब चला गया जब information sharing was you know dependent on me being able to travel somewhere and then seeing for myself वो अच्छा ये गाड़ियां भी available हैं या ये ये वाला model तो Pakistan में नहीं है. अब तो TikTok भरा पड़ा है. तो अब तो आपको foreign you know instant information मिलती है तो and that's a good challenge to have, right? Because we want to introduce the the most newest models that are globally available and we want to produce them as well. Right. Again,

before you answer the the the other question इसी के साथ जो मैंने tie in किया था about localization, I also want to understand कि अब जब हम China में factoryयां देख रहे हैं वह बड़ी मतलब गाड़ियां बनाने की factoryयां बड़ी वह there is a thing. Yes. You know it's very cutting edge. Are the is the is the facility that is going to be created in Pakistan? Is it going to be the conventional जैसी होती है? या are we looking at some of that cutting edge technology also coming to Pakistan?

देखिए, absolutely it is going to be of that level. Certainly हमारे कुछ challenges हो सकते हैं जिसके लिए हम, you know, उसको अपने हिसाब से tweak कर दें but that is the way forward. You know, there are no two ways about it. We are making a state of the art facility for that reason because that only benefits us. If we are able to make that investment right now then we can support that future innovation that might be coming. अगर मैं आज ही दस साल पुराना वाला लगा दूंगा तो मैं तो दो साल में यहां obsolete हो गया. तो मैं तो फिर लगाऊं ही नहीं. Like, what saving am I going to get जब दो साल बाद मुझे मेरा ही partner आकर कहेगा कि this is not gonna work. You need to set up a new facility for the new model. Why would I do that? Right? Makes sense. So it's a it's a completely business decision. It's a completely conscious decision that we want to set up a state of the art facility. We are incentivized to set up a state of the art facility. Makes sense. And so in terms of localization

Yeah. Realistically, like you said, technology on veins wheels. Right? Can Pakistan localize technology?

देखिए, we have to look at it what we can do right away and what can we do in the future, right? देखिए, right away अगर हम देखें तो what we can do is there are certainly parts manufacturers that are doing a good job already in Pakistan where we localize material. If we use an electric vehicle, we it components, so I'll that battery is a major component, and then have a motor, electric controls, and then of course you have vehicle parts. Vehicle parts में Pakistan के अंदर seats भी बनती हैं, wire harnesses भी बनते हैं, tyre manufacturing भी होती है and other parts are also made. तो हम यह तो right off the bat we can move into localizing these parts. Is the question can I start localizing the battery from tomorrow? Of course not. That will take certain time. Right? But is there something that is stopping us? No. If we can show the numbers, right? जैसे मैंने आपको इससे थोड़ी देर पहले कहा था कि we are also excited कि we can also be exporting vehicles from here. Why not? Right? If we can show the numbers, then certainly there's a business case कि हम उन चीज़ों को भी localize करेंगे और जहां तक हमने motor की बात करी, electric controllers की बात करी, देखें an ode to our people on in our defense. We have state of the art fighter jets. Right. That we are able to in part, you know locally manufacture and assemble can we not do it for the cars? Of course we can.

इसके बाद जो लोग generally कहते हैं वो ये कहते कि यार हमारे पास steel नहीं है जो जो core component है aluminum नहीं है, steel नहीं है, उसकी supply chain नहीं है तो सोचे से चले छोटे आपने कहा plastics लगा दी, seatऐं लगा दी that's fine लेकिन body क्या वन सकती है Pakistan में? जो आपका frame है वह वन सकता है Pakistan में या नहीं वन सकता है या अगर उसके अंदर again उसमें dollar component का होता कि how much of the dollar component can I? आपने कहा ना battery 40% है. कहता हूं battery 40% है. Motor सब मिला मिलो कि अगर 80% जो है वह आपके सारे यह components हैं और 20% को आप localize कर भी लेते हैं तो there's not a lot of margin. Do

you think कि हम कोई realistic let's say क्या हम 50% तक पहुंच सकते हैं realistically knowing our capability? Certainly, there's nothing stopping us from doing that. देखिए हम क्या start 50% से करेंगे? No. हम start उसी से कर सकते हैं जो अभी हमारे पास capacity है. Right? But But realistic target है, economic potential economic possibility है फिर. Economic possibility है. देखिए आपने जो बात करी ना कि हमारे restrictions हैं, कि हमारी dependencies हैं on raw materials and all of that, ठीक है? वो dependencies अभी भी exist करती हैं. कौन से हम इन parts के लिए भी खुद ही सारी चीज़ें बना रहे हैं, right? Right. हमने बात करी कि BYD is leading the charge on battery manufacturing as well, right? Lithium ion phosphate की batteries हैं. Lithium क्या सारी China से आती है? Of course not, right? So the supply chains are available. When you get into that business, you also find that solution कि अच्छा, how do I route this to the best of my, you know, वह कि मेरे लिए क्या ज़्यादा impactful होगा? Right? तो certainly we want to move into that direction. We want to have a starting point as well. And the starting point I want to say we want to keep it realistic. Right. Export को आप लोगों ने कभी इतना study किया कि यार business case export का है कि नहीं है? देखिए export का बिल्कुल potential exist करता है for the right hand drive market, ठीक है? Middle East का आप example दे रहे थे Middle East is left hand drive. So unless we put in those components to convert our cars to left hand drive, वह भी किया जा सकता है. Right. लेकिन हम predominantly right hand drive market को देख सकते हैं. Right. ठीक है? If you if you if you make economic sense Right. There are markets in Europe that are right hand drive. Ok. If you want to tap, if it makes economic sense for you, you can tap into that, ठीक है? इसका देखिए and that is the that is the cherry on top to be honest. ठीक है? कि आप local assembly करें, आप localize करें and then you export. Right? That's like the last frontier and you want to breach that frontier.

Makes sense. मैं थोड़ा सा इसको wrapping up की तरफ़ लेकर जाऊंगा. This one is a more लंबी मैंने podcast recently ली थी but सच्ची बातें मुझे बहुत मज़ा आया sir मैं अभी नहीं बोल रहा. बहुत सारी मैंने recently लिया है at a great time. You're you're a great speaker but the conversation itself the b b y d is super exciting as well. Last few questions पहला तो मुझे यह बताइएगा कि what's the goal here for the next five to ten years? I mean are you are you guys I mean is it just there are a bunch of entrants that have come in. Are you just coming in as well? Which is fine as well. Business है, business कर रहे हैं. That's fine. But you have like a एक होता एक excitement होती है कि यार यह करेंगे तो उससे यह करेंगे. एक vision बनाते हैं. एक shoot for the stars में star के and then पहुंचते कहां तक है वह देखी जाएगी. So what's the vision here? I'll talk about the ambition. Mhmm. Right? The ambition is to be the number one auto manufacturer and automaker

in the world. That's the BYD ambition. ठीक है? Now let me break it down. ठीक है? How do you get there? First, you have to become the largest electric vehicle player, then you have to become the largest new energy vehicle player, and then you become the largest auto player. ठीक है? That ambition trickles down. We have the same ambition. Right? Yes, we are starting out, but that doesn't mean we cannot achieve it. When the folks that came in thirty years ago, they were also starting out. I am sure when you talk to them, the challenges we face today, they were 10 times more at that time. Right? Kudos to them to overcome them at that time, and hopefully, we will overcome them right now. But the ambition is definitely there. This is not a one trick pony kind of thing for us. We have very ambitious targets. जैसे मैंने कहा we have the pressure and the support from our partner as well to be as ambitious as them.

Makes sense. Tying to that आपने कहा क्या इस चीज़ का हम उसको grow कर सकते हैं. पहला तो यह है कि are we looking at plug in hybrid and or hybrid and or fully petrol vehicles potentially? Don't know BYD petrol बनाती भी है कि नहीं बनाती. What's the range looking like? And in terms of the models that you might introduce, and I know these are business decisions can be up and down. So with a high degree of confidence, what sort of models can we look at? Can are we looking at potentially plug in hybrids as well? Mhmm. That would at least in the shorter run वह जो range anxiety वाला problem है उसको kettle for कर लेगा. And then lastly and this might sound like a dumb question but I mean मैं automotive का नहीं हूं. आप मुझे उसमें बेहतर NMI फ़राम कर सकते हैं. Can we look at you know अब हम US में देखते ना तो sorry China में देखते हैं तो वहां पर आपको वह सुनने को मिलती है नौ हज़ार dollar की एक G Electricity. जी जी जी. So can we look at a middle class price point वाली गाड़ी as well in the near future?

Absolutely. So देखिए there are approaches to it. मैं पहले आपको बता दूं आपका जो पहला question था. We are certainly looking at electric vehicles and plug in hybrids. We don't have fuel based cars petrol fully full petrol engine cars नहीं हैं. ICE vehicles जिनको कहते हैं internal combustion engine वह नहीं हैं. ना ही हम hybrid electric vehicles जो HEVs हैं उनकी हम बात करते हैं we talk about plug in hybrids because that's the newer technology. So PHEVs and EVs are the two products that we certainly have. So just to understand PHEV उसकी range कितनी होती है जो plug in component की? जी. अब मैं आपको उसमें बताता हूं. देखिए PHEV के अंदर ना दोनों चीज़ें available हैं. So the good thing about BYD's technology is कि जो हमारी PHEV technology है उसको हम कहते हैं dual mode intelligent technology which means is कि वह full electric पर चल सकती है. वह HEV series का उसमें एक concept होता है जब वह आपके पास state of charge low हो जाता है तो आप उसको ख़ुद इसी charge करके ज़्यादा kilometer निकाल लेते हैं. Yes और एक parallel होता है जिसके अंदर आप जो कह रहे हैं वह होता है. उसके अंदर होता है यह कि the engine becomes a generator. The generator powers the battery. The power the battery powers the motor, right? जो एक fully आपको full tank और full battery capacity के ऊपर typically एक range मिलती है वह बारह सौ kilometer भी है in certain instances कुछ cases में हज़ार है and the newest the fifth generation of DMI that has been introduced by BYD that's 2,000 kilometers Absolutely. Yeah. Because the, see these cars don't have like five or six kilowatt batteries. They've got eighteen, twenty kilowatt hour batteries which means कि आपको सिर्फ fully electric पर अगर आपको चलाना है सौ, सावा, सौ में से मिला है. सोलह, सोलह kilometer को आप ऐसे ही touch कर सकते हैं. तो locals local की तो आपकी सारी उसी पर चल जाएगी basically. आप city driving में you can just use that. You never have to move to you know putting in fuel in the in the car. Interesting interesting

and then tell me about the the the middle class one के price point क्या हम आज की market के हिसाब से आज की inflation आज के price point आपने नौ million बोला क्या हम चार, पांच million, तीन million की गाड़ी देख सकते हैं realistically?

There are two parts to that question. Right. देखिए, हमें यह समझना होगा कि इस वक़्त नौ million की गाड़ी कौन ख़रीद रहा है? Right? Let's look at a typical customer. A typical customer can be somebody like me, somebody like you. You know, हम किसी urban center में probably रहते हैं. हम अगर घर पर charge करना चाहें तो दो करोड़ का भी charger है. हम seven का घर पर लगा भी सकते हैं. First करें हम घर पर लगा भी लेते हैं. Right? और हम DC charge के लिए ख़ुद भी जा सकते हैं. हम driver को भी सुबह को भेज सकते हैं. जो एक आपको याद है एक CNG की भी lineएं लगती थी तो उसमें लोग क्या करते थे सुबह को? Driver को भेजा, charge कर लिया. तो हम वह भी कर सकते हैं. Right? अभी ऐसी चीज़ नहीं है लेकिन वह भी कर सकते हैं. Now look at the person who can right now afford a 3 to 5,000,000 car. वह कहां पर रहता है? Right? Typically, अगर मैं कराची का example लूं, वह शायद एक apartment में रहता होगा. Apartment में रहता है इसका मतलब है कि maybe he doesn't have access to a overnight permanent parking spot which means he cannot charge overnight. ठीक है? उसके लिए, उस customer के लिए it is absolutely necessary that you have a charging infrastructure in place. It is not an if, it's a when question.

So the cars exist, the economics exist. Yeah. At some point those cars will come in. Yes. But they will come in when the infrastructure and the industry has matured enough. They should come in. They can't.

We have instances where the cars are being offered right now. ठीक है? I don't want to name competition but there is a car that's available. उन्होंने DC charger का option ही नहीं रखा है उसमें. वो AC charger है. ठीक है? अगर वह बंदा इसको ride hailing के लिए use करना चाहे तो he's done. हां. वह कुछ नहीं कर सकता, right? क्योंकि इसका मतलब है कि उसको घर पर जाकर कहीं charge करना पड़ेगा और वह AC charger है. वह सात kilowatt पर अगर charge करेगा तो उसको पंद्रह घंटे लग जाएंगे, दस घंटे लग जाएंगे. Right. If he is a right handling guy, how does he make money using that? He cannot. Right. So, it is you have to time it right otherwise you will run into failure. Right. I personally believe. ठीक है? उसका एक time है maybe it's not right away.

ठीक है? देखिए अभी आपको Early doctors भी दो होते ना? Yes. पहले early doctors हैं वह आऐंगे, वह आकर score करेंगे. In terms of if and when when that comes in हमारी जो छोटी गाड़ियां होती है ना I don't know अभी तो खैर I don't even think कोई $34,000,000 की रह गई है market में. है अभी एक. एक है. But जो भी यह market में available But for some weird reason वह पहले तो ख़ैर बहुत ही ज़लील किया कि nineteen eighties का model आज तक चलाते रहे. Bikes के साथ भी यही होता है हमारा कि आजकल आज तक upgradation आई ही नहीं. BYD का I don't know the catalogue. The cheaper models how how are they? In terms of the the technology, the overall aesthetic generally गाड़ियां के साथ? The the

technology doesn't go away. ठीक है? Technology किस तरह doesn't go away? जो गाड़ी के अंदर battery use होती है उसको blade battery कहते हैं. There is a C2B technology, cell to body technology, right? Which means आपके शासी में ही built in है वह उससे आपकी efficiency बढ़ जाती है और the weight, the center of gravity comes closer. तो अगर वह गाड़ी एक बुलान type भी हो तो वह soft colony का वह नीचे है? नहीं, वह नीचे नहीं है. उसका फ़र्क़ यह है कि वह जो cells हैं ना, वह शासी के अंदर ही आपने pack कर दिए हैं. So there is no separate जो आपको उसके ऊपर लगाना पड़े. तो उसका फ़ायदा यह होता है कि आपकी energy density और energy efficiency बढ़ जाती है in the same Ok. So this is the technology that they use चाहे वह आपकी top end चल रही है या चाहे आपकी वह lower end है. वह CTB उसी तरह से use करेगा. Right. वह blade battery technology उसी तरीके से use करेगा. Right. ठीक है? देखिए आप यह भी सोचें if I am a technology advanced company मुझे तो दो step पीछे जाना पड़ेगा just to make a car that is not an advanced. At some point in time that will make absolutely no sense for me. Right, especially with the scale that they are operating. Exactly-exactly. So yes देखिए अब of course जो उस category of vehicle होगा उसमें वह luxury शायद ना हो वह आपको

हुआ क्या कहते हैं napa leather ना लगा हुआ हो उसमें imitation I get that but there are certain things बिना पिछले दोनों देख रहा था कौन सी गाड़ी थी यार Alto थी I think किसी ने ना वह second hand Japan वाली मंगवाई भी थी. Yet was Alto के अंदर it's not the वह दिखने में कोई इतनी special नहीं थी कोई वह नहीं था but halogen lamps के बजाय LED आ गई थी. ठीक है? आपकी जो छोटे मोटे वह थे आपके motor priced windows थी जो कि essential हो चुकी है automatic गाड़ी थी. अभी तक आप वही

car, ठीक है? जिसमें luxury features नहीं होंगे लेकिन सारे safety features और the other features that we were talking about in terms of technology वो exist करते होंगे. देखिए अभी इस वक्त supply chain ऐसी है कि predominantly things are made in China, ठीक है? Even the parts are made in China. ठीक है? तो वह China में उनकी इस वक़्त ज़्यादा बड़ी market China है than globally. ठीक है? अब अगर वह by default एक बनाते ही एक ऐसी चीज़ हैं, ठीक है? जो कि top tier है तो वह Pakistan की market के लिए make sense करता ही नहीं है. उसके पास part हो गई ही नहीं alternative कि मैं इसको जो है वह कम वाला भेज दूं, right? वह exist ही नहीं करेगा तो वह मुझे बेच ही नहीं सकेगा, right? तो मैं as a partner I will never have that option कि अच्छा यार वह क्योंकि कुछ कुछ companies that are have been established for much longer उनके पास शायद supply chain में ये alternative solutions हों. उनके पास वो पुराने models किश्त करते थे जिनका उन्होंने कहा कि यार आप jump करें उसका माल और हम systemएं बेच देंगे. इनके case में नहीं कर सकते आप. I mean, BYD has been around for a long time but the surge in the electric vehicles is very recent. Right. Right? So, there is no old with them. So, leapfrog opportunity obviously that that exist there as well. Makes sense. Sir,

am going to wrap this up but it was an absolute pleasure. I am not just saying that. You know, you you are a lot of fun to talk to. Recent times में ना मैं बड़ा डामा डोलूंगा conversations में but you actually my faith in podcasts आपने काफ़ी तक बोल किया I hope you guys had similar amounts of fun but thank you so much for taking the time out. एक last सवाल अगर मैं आपसे पुछ सकूं. I ask all of my guests. Guests has nothing to do with your role in the company but rather you as an individual. You went, you you grew up in Pakistan, you studied from Pakistan, you left despondent, you came back and now you are you know it's an exciting role to be a part of. Where there is definitely आप business goals हर किसी को होते हैं आप इंचल्लाह, I hope आप लोग पैसे कमाए और खुद भी अमीर हो Pakistan को भी अमीर करें but beyond that there is there are lot of good things attached to it right as Climate के अंदर, overall economics के अंदर and so एक बड़ा मज़े का मेरे हिसाब से बड़ा मज़े का role है कि there is real impact there as well. Pakistan आप वापस आए सबसे turbulent time के अंदर. दो हज़ार इक्कीस में आ पाए उसके बाद से बस वह you know आंपड़ ना हो नहीं चल रहा है. मुझे लगता है मैंने trigger किया. जो आपने पिछले you know बीस पच्चीस तीस साल के अंदर with going and coming back and turbulence and everything experience किया based on that if you were to look at Pakistan of 2050 what would you envision? How do you see Pakistan of 2050 knowing what you know now, seeing what you've seen throughout your life?

That's a very interesting question. इसको मैं थोड़ा slightly approach करूंगा और उसका मैं reason भी आपको बता देता हूं. देखिए business aside and all of those things aside we are we are part of a community and I and I want to use the word community, not country, not city, not we are part of a community. Right? It is absolutely critical that we review our actions right now because वह जो twenty fifty वाला है ना that is a country or a place which may very well be in a lot of difficulty, Right? And we have multiple things happening to us and with us that could account for it, including ourselves. You know, we have to take action. It is not about what does twenty fifty look like. Twenty fifty doesn't exist if we don't do something about it right now. That's how I would say approach it. Makes a lot of sense.

I hope that we are able to take that action. I hope that our kids can have a have a great Pakistan to survive and thrive in. Thank you so much and for all of you guys अगर आपको यह episode पसंद आई है मेरे दोस्तों यार ज़रूर share करिएगा. Let me know in the comment section below automotive के ऊपर हमेशा बड़े सारे emotional किस्म के responses आते हैं पाकिस्तानियों को you know फ़ारिक वक्त के अंदर गाड़ियां देखने का बड़ा शौक है Pakistan का हर दिल अजीज़ सबसे बड़ा channel है so I wanna hear your opinions मैं तो बड़ा गाड़ी वाला बंदा नहीं हूँ आप लोग मुझे बताएं electric vehicles are you interested in getting them if you don't like them why don't you like them if you like them what are your thoughts what are you looking forward to क्या Pakistan में वाकई electric vehicles की revolution आ सकती है BYD को आपने देखा है आप उसमें बैठे हैं what has your experience been Personally मेरा experience यह रहा है कि I haven't tried. A friend of mine actually tried it and she loves it. She lives in Dubai. BYD हान Dubai में बड़ी आती है वह जब आप क़रीम वगैरह करते हैं तो उसमें कभी तो if anybody has tried it I would love to hear your opinion on you know because Tesla has a lot of fan boys but you guys probably haven't tried Han those who have what are your thoughts? What are your thoughts overall about BYD? If you don't know much about it, I would definitely recommend उनकी factory towards देख in China again there. Check out some of the cars that they're doing. It's absolutely phenomenal. But, let me know in the comment section below what your thoughts are. Nonetheless, this was Tahid Muzamelas and Sedi. You were watching Thought Behind Things. Thank you so much for watching, I'll see you in the next one.