Thought Behind Things · Jul 2, 2025 · 1:27:21
Why Netflix isn't really competing for Pakistan
Jonathan Mark, co-founder of begin.watch, explains why the big global streamers have left Pakistan as a dark market, how he locked premium Hollywood deals at a tenth of the price, and why sports — not dramas — is the wedge to build a streaming business in a piracy-heavy economy.
with Jonathan Mark
13 min read
A long absence and a sharper focus
The episode opens with Muzamil apologising for a long gap between episodes and resetting what Thought Behind Things is going to be from this point forward. Politics, he says, will come and go. His core interest now sits “exclusively” in startups, in economics, in business and in tech — and specifically in the kind of operator who is trying to do something disruptive inside a particular Pakistani industry while the wider economy stabilises.
That framing matters, because the guest he introduces next is the test case. Jonathan Mark, he tells the audience, has “a foreign-sounding name but is a Pakistani gentleman” with two decades of media experience: Zee from the late nineties, the launch teams for CNBC Pakistan, Samaa TV and KTN, and now a new hat — trying to disrupt streaming in a country Muzamil openly says he is sceptical can sustain a paid streaming business. “Streaming, I don’t know if it can run in a piracy-infested market like Pakistan,” he tells Jonathan on the way into the conversation. The rest of the episode is Jonathan answering that scepticism on the numbers.
Selling Corollas before selling channels
Before getting to begin.watch, Muzamil walks Jonathan through how he ended up in media at all. Jonathan was born in Muscat to a Pakistani father and an Indian mother, moved to Karachi after his parents separated, and finished O and A levels there. Between A levels and college he took seven months off and sold cars — Corollas, at Indus Motors and Toyota Central Motors, in the wholesale belt of Jodia Bazaar.
Muzamil pauses on this. He wants to know whether the gap year was about survival money or about wanting to enjoy being young. Jonathan says it was both, and then makes a point Muzamil clearly likes: sitting across the table from procurement officers at small and medium businesses at that age taught him work culture far earlier than university would have. The line he lands on is the one Muzamil quotes back at him later in the conversation: “You can’t judge a book by its cover. A person walks in, you think this guy is just going to look at the car, and twenty minutes later he has bought ten.”
He went to college for media and marketing between 1994 and 1996 — a strange thing to study in Pakistan at the time, by his own admission — and joined Zee in Dubai as a sales executive on graduation. He clarifies one biographical detail Muzamil gets slightly wrong in the introduction: he did not launch CNBC Pakistan, he joined it. He was, however, on the launch teams for Samaa and KTN.
A decade at Zee, and the eight-foot dish
Jonathan stayed at Zee for almost ten years, leaving in 2007. The texture he gives that period is worth slowing down on, because it sets up everything he says later about distribution and piracy.
When Zee arrived in Pakistan in the mid-nineties, there were exactly two channels in the country — PTV and NTM. Zee came in through a “completely legal” piece of hardware: an eight-foot dish, an LNB, a receiver, and a smart card slot, all sold openly in the Saddar electronics market in Karachi for somewhere between six and ten thousand rupees depending on the box. That was a steep price. Jonathan, working out of Dubai, was selling advertising — not hardware — into a Pakistani market with only three channels and roughly twenty agencies, of which only four handled the fifteen-odd Unilever brands. It was, he says, a small enough world that he met Rehan Merchant — then at Procter and Gamble, now the long-running CEO of Park Mediacom and his current co-founder at begin — across a Zee pitch in 1998.
He left Zee for Zafar Siddiqui’s group in 2007 — Siddiqui being a chartered accountant and former KPMG managing partner who had built Telebiz, CNBC Arabia, CNBC Pakistan and then Samaa. Jonathan stayed at Samaa for sixteen years through a change of ownership in 2021, ran the digital revenue vertical and Samaa FM, and finally left in May 2023 to build begin.watch with Rehan.
The product, and why owning the tech matters
begin.watch went live in July 2024. Jonathan describes it cleanly: a premium subscription SVOD platform priced at $9.99 a month, available on iOS, Android, web and connected TV, geo-locked to Pakistan. “You cannot watch anything on begin if you’re in Dubai,” he tells Muzamil, with some pride. “That’s how good we are.”
The catalogue is built on three of the five major Hollywood studios — NBC Universal, Sony Pictures and Paramount — plus a deliberately heavy sports lineup: PSL, English Premier League, the Masters, AEW wrestling, the Sultan Azlan Shah hockey cup, and a soon-to-be-announced La Liga partnership. Local Urdu drama acquired from linear TV sits alongside, and two original Pakistani dramas are about to launch.
Muzamil presses on technology. The standard Pakistani pattern, he points out, has been telcos buying a white-label streaming stack and bolting it onto a marketing campaign — and the user experience has always suffered because the telco never owned the tech. Jonathan’s answer is that begin’s stack is in-house, ground-up, built by an ex-Tamasha engineer named Nabil and his team. The stress test he offers is concrete: during the conversation, the platform was simultaneously running PSL matches, the Masters golf and Premier League fixtures without crashing — something Jonathan notes another local app failed at “two or three years ago” when PSL traffic overwhelmed it. The longer game, he adds, is to white-label that tech to other markets as a second revenue line, but that is years away.
On scale, he is unusually direct for a founder. Around 25,000 to 30,000 monthly active paying subscribers at $9.99 a month. Significant downloads on top of that. Not profitable, not pretending to be, currently closing what he describes as a pre-Series A round even though there is already meaningful revenue running through the business. He says begin should be in a position to put money back into the business within eighteen to twenty-four months.
How a Pakistani platform got Oppenheimer for a tenth of the price
The most striking section of the conversation is Jonathan’s explanation of how begin acquired premium Hollywood content as a Pakistani startup. The mechanism, in his telling, is a quiet feature of the global streaming economy that Pakistani operators can actually exploit.
When the big global platforms — Netflix, HBO, Disney — talk about “the subcontinent,” they mean India. Pakistan is a rounding error on those licensing deals. Netflix, by Jonathan’s count, has roughly 450,000 paying subscribers in Pakistan. Bangladesh adds maybe another 250,000 to 300,000. Netflix is not, he says flatly, looking at Pakistan. “It’s a nice to have, but they are not actively putting towards that.”
That gap is what Jonathan and Rehan walked into. He gives the Oppenheimer negotiation as a worked example. Netflix had paid roughly $250,000 for subcontinent rights to Christopher Nolan’s film, with a cooling-off period before any second platform could license it. Jonathan went to NBC Universal — through a friend-of-a-friend network he had built over twenty years — and made the argument that Pakistan was a dark market, that Netflix was already paying x, and that NBC could collect x plus a Pakistan-specific premium on top of it. NBC agreed. The contract was signed end-May 2024 and the catalogue went live in July, with an exclusive window that lasted until Netflix put the title up in Pakistan on 21 March 2025. By then, he says, the people who wanted it had already watched it on begin.
The headline number he gives Muzamil is the one to remember: “We picked it up for one-tenth the price.” Sony Pictures and Paramount, he says, were persuaded by the same argument — a dark market, a price floor below what they were already getting, and a partner who would actually fight the piracy that was bleeding them anyway. The studio deals are locked in for three years because, as Jonathan puts it, “we figured the price would go up once they saw the traction.”
Piracy is an ISP problem, not a torrent problem
Muzamil pushes hard on the piracy question. He describes the Pakistani consumer who goes to a free streaming site full of viruses, the Nayatel-style ISP that quietly bundled a torrenting front-end into its package, and a market where “first attempt” is usually a pirated copy. How do you build a paid product on top of that?
Jonathan splits the problem in two. Torrents he treats as a global, unsolvable, expert-user issue — a thousandth of the market, present in the US and India too. The real problem in Pakistan is the ISPs and cable operators, who package pirated content into a paid bundle the consumer believes is legitimate because they are handing over fifteen hundred to two thousand rupees a month for it. “The consumer doesn’t know it’s pirated,” he says. “They are paying for it.”
The play begin is running on top of that has three layers. First, it joined the Alliance for Creativity and Entertainment, the global anti-piracy body whose members include HBO, Disney, GeoStar, StarSports, Bein, OSN, Shahid and NBC. Membership took several months because ACE vets you as a real business; once in, begin had access to ACE’s enforcement muscle and to partnerships with regional players like Bein and OSN. Second, his legal team obtained Pakistani court stays on every title begin has rights to — a job he says would normally take years. Third, and this is the interesting part: begin is not trying to sue the ISPs. It is trying to license to them. He describes offering ISPs twenty movies a month on a rotating basis, a feed they can plug into their VOD offering and resell to their customers. The argument to the ISP is straightforward — improve the customer experience, stop being a piracy lawsuit waiting to happen, and pay for content that you can actually market. He gives a worked example from golf: begin paid significant money to the PGA, took the main feed, gave the secondary feeds to partners, and slapped a banner on the secondary feeds pointing back to begin.
Sports is the wedge, not drama
Muzamil takes the conversation into a wider question about Pakistani sports. The pattern, he argues, is always the same: a Pakistani athlete or sport reaches some level of global success, the conversation reverts to “the government should do more”, and nothing happens. He rejects the framing entirely. A developing-country government with one of the lowest tax-to-GDP ratios in the region is not going to fund a league. In India, he points out, it was private capital that mainstreamed every category — and sport was no exception.
Jonathan agrees, and then narrows the argument to something more useful. The early data from begin’s first year, he says, is unambiguous: sports is the single biggest subscription driver. Western premium content gets people in the door; sports keeps them there. Local original drama is the third pillar — the begin originals about to launch — because customer service feedback has been heavy on “when are you bringing your own?”
The La Liga partnership he describes is the template for how he wants begin to operate as more than a streamer. La Liga already runs outreach programmes in markets like Iraq and Egypt. begin is going to bring two La Liga academy players into Karachi, Lahore and Islamabad every quarter, run tournaments under the La Liga brand, and let interest cascade — schools, colleges, universities, teams, advertisers — into the football ecosystem the country has not yet built. Rehan’s PSL experience, he notes, is the operating manual.
Muzamil presses him on whether Pakistan will get a proper, government-endorsed football league with city franchises. Jonathan’s answer: yes, soon, and Rehan is working on the framework. Other sports follow the same logic. MYCO, he is generous enough to credit, did a real job with the Squash World Championship, and the Pakistani win that followed has visibly refilled squash courts.
Arslan Ash, kabaddi and the heroes Pakistan does not promote
The episode opens, in its cold-open clip, with a riff Muzamil and Jonathan return to later: Arslan Ash, the Pakistani Tekken world champion. Muzamil’s frustration is open. Arslan did not just win — he built a team of Pakistanis who now dominate global Tekken, was picked up by Saudi Arabia, and is being used by the Saudis to anchor their own esports city. The Pakistani esports community waits for his next Twitter clip. No Pakistani platform, broadcaster or sponsor has built a product around him.
Jonathan does not dispute the diagnosis. His answer is that linear TV, streaming platforms and sports channels have to take the responsibility on collectively. The job is not to stream a match; it is to construct a story around the athlete — training, behind-the-scenes, ground events. That is what is missing. Once that visibility exists, he argues, the advertiser comfort follows, and the snowball starts. He is honest that begin is not large enough yet to do that alone; the comment is a statement about the industry, not a roadmap for his company.
Muzamil and Jonathan riff briefly on kabaddi as the proof that the model works. The Pro Kabaddi League in India took an unmistakably rural game and re-rendered it as a glossy, urban, primetime product. Pakistan was meant to stream the Kabaddi World Cup earlier in 2025 through begin, but the Pakistan team could not get UK visas in time and the platform pulled out.
Where this is actually going
The closing third of the conversation is where Jonathan lays out the bet underneath the entire business. He is explicit that begin is not optimising for next year’s P&L.
The streaming war in India, he points out, has gone through the roof. Disney sold its India assets to JioStar; Warner Brothers and Viacom are effectively plug-ins on the same app. India has a ceiling, and the global streamers are going to hit it. The Middle East is already crowded — StarzPlay, Netflix, Shahid, OSN, each holding a niche. So what is left?
His answer is the 450 million-person belt of Pakistan, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka. Roughly fifty percent of the population under thirty. Close to two hundred million smartphone users in rough aggregate across the three. A generation that does not want to switch on a TV at eight o’clock to watch a drama. He says it plainly: “These big players will eventually come to these markets. We want to be there all set, so when they come, let’s talk.”
Read in that light, every move begin has made fits one shape. The in-house tech stack is the asset that cannot be replicated quickly. The three-year studio deals are a price floor before the big platforms arrive. The sports rights are the audience moat. The ACE membership and the ISP licensing strategy are the defensible position on piracy. The La Liga grassroots programme is a brand the international platforms will not have built. The 25,000 to 30,000 paying subscribers are a proof point, not a target.
By the end of the conversation, Muzamil has stopped being sceptical about whether streaming can work in Pakistan and started asking how begin will be valued when it sells. Jonathan, characteristically, does not bite on the number. He repeats the line he has used three times by now: it can always be better. The next eighteen to twenty-four months, he says, is when the question gets answered.
Full transcript
वह आपका वह प्रशंद दीन जीतकर आया तो मैं बेगम से बात करता हूं. मैंने भी बोला मैंने कहा यार अब जो है ना जिस level के ऊपर इसको exposure मिला ना तो गांव गांव में बच्चा जो है वह बैठकर ना एक stick फेकना शुरू कर देगा because that's how it works. Esports अर्चना नश. Yes. He's changed the game. Yeah. I don't know कि अगर आप उसको follow करें ना तो उसने वह he just did not go and win. He created a team of पाकिस्तानीs. Now they dominate the world of tackles. Yes. उसको उठाकर Saudi ले गए और Saudiयों ने अपनी पूरी esports की शहर बना लिया वह उसके अंदर
collectively and not just the streaming platforms but the sports we will have to take on the onus of promoting these sports that now has to happen and it's happening on many levels and once that happens वह फिर advertiser का comfort at this point in time we're not profitable for this to go. Where do we see this going? Everybody's looking at India right now. The streaming war in India is just through the viral Disney. I don't know if you know sold their India assets to JioStar. Basically, Disney is now just a plug in on the GeoStar app as is Warner Brothers in Viacom. At some point India is going to reach its ceiling. Where do you go? Middle East में तो already चलो I can't. Stars play भी है, यहां पर Netflix भी है, Shayed भी है, Todd भी है, और सबने अपनी बना ली है नीच, ठीक है. तो कौन सी माक़त रहेगी?
सालुल, ख़बदीना अज़रात. Welcome back to the episode of Todd Behind Things. सबसे पहले तो माज़रत. मैं proper proper ग़ायब था. अब वापस इस हफ़्ते से आपको दो episodes a week regularly मिलेंगी. Right off the bat मैं आपको बता देता हूं कि मेरा जो core interest है यह सियासत वियासत तो times आया करने वाली चीज़ है. Very honestly तो मेरा core interest जो है अब exclusively वह अब startups में है. Economics particularly business के अंदर और tech के अंदर है. Pakistan में finally जो overall economy है वह stability की तरफ़ आ गई है और अब interesting ideas का potentially growth का time आने वाले वक़्त में आएगा and so I'm curious कि कौन से ऐसे players हैं जो कि अच्छे से grow कर रहे हैं या कर सकते हैं? कौन से ऐसे लोग हैं जो disruptive काम कर रहे हैं different different industries में. So lots of very exciting conversations coming out your way. Nonetheless आज हमारे साथ मौजूद हैं Jonathan Mark who is एक गोरा नाम है but he is a पाकिस्तानी gentleman with an extensive experience in the media. He was working with Z TV back in the day जब नया नया Pakistan के अंदर cable you know channels आए और यह सारे के सारे international channels आए back in like ninety eight early two thousands. उसके बाद फिर he was I believe he launched or ran CNBC as well. समय को भी उन्होंने launch किया KTN which is the first regional language channel in Pakistan for सिंधी. वह भी उन्होंने launch किया and then अब उन्होंने एक बड़ी different hat पहनी है. वह streaming को disrupt करना चाहते हैं Pakistan का. वह media को disrupt करना चाहते हैं by main streaming streaming. जो कि मैं बड़ा मेरे बड़े से निकल opinions रहे हैं उसके बारे में कि यार streaming पता नहीं Pakistan जैसी piracy infested market के अंदर चल सकती है, नहीं चल सकती. But बड़ा interesting time है. Media बहुत massively disrupt हो रहा है. And so I'm curious to understand what the future of media is in Pakistan.
Jonathan, thank you so much for being part of the show. Thank you मज़मर for having me. I appreciate it and big fan of your podcast. Every time I tune into your shows, I always go back learning something new. Thank you sir. Thank you so much. Just to clarify something I was not I did not launch CNBC. I did join CNBC. It was already established brand out of Pakistan and it was already in Arabia. Yes, I was part of the launch team for Summer. Summer and KTN.
Very close friends with the Kazi brothers who launched KTN. Yeah. Nice. So, why don't we sort of go through a quick background? Let me know कि आपका जो overall experience क्या रहा है? How did you come about the media industry and, you know, experience कैसा रहा है पिछले बीस साल? I was
I was born in in मस्कित, Oman and my parents were met in Dubai. Father's पाकिस्तानी, mother's Indian. So, up in, you know, the not much of a difference between the पाकिस्तानी Indian growing up. डांट वहां भी पड़ती है. यह माल मतलब same thing. But yeah, I got exposure to a lot of Indian, you know, way of living and Pakistan way of living. छुट्टियों में we used to go to Pakistan, India. So, inclination थी towards Indian culture and पाकिस्तानी culture and all of that. Early years were were in Muscat, Oman, and then parents got divorced. So my sisters and I, we have three siblings, two other sisters. We moved with my dad to Pakistan where we did our schooling, O and A levels, and then college किया. And there was a brief stint between A levels and college where I sold cars. That's interesting. Yeah. Back in the nineties. Back in the nineties. Yeah. Interesting. Indus Valley Motor के लिए काम किया था और Toyota Central Motors. Indus, Indus Valley? Indus Motors. Indus Motors, sorry. हां, Indus Motors हां. और Toyota Central Motors तो Corollas बेची हैं. Nice. Back in the day and then went to college. But I always had inclination towards you know media and you know filmमों का शौक था you know all that. If I would to pause quickly this is very interesting.
How do you think आपने कहा एक साल off लेकर यह job की? Seven months. Seven months. What made you work? पैसे चाहिए थे. मतलब पैसे चाहिए थे survivability के लिए या पैसे चाहिए थे कि यार थोड़ा सा enjoy करने के लिए young young आए.
Survival, well, survival तो पैसे थे but वह survive करके थोड़ा सा थोड़ा बहुत enjoy भी करना है you know
that was the reason for it. You think it was एक live आ गई थी उस पर. हां, do you think it was just a random thing that you did or do you think it had impact कि going into college you actually had real world experience of कि यार actual हां, में काम धंधा हुआ यह होती Yeah, it really impacted me because I was selling cars in
जोड़िया बाज़ार and large industries maybe or not so much direct to consumer but mainly small and medium enterprises and large corporations तो वह जाकर बैठना procurement के department में लोगों से मिलना वह you know काफी जल्दी
work culture का पता चल गया था कि काम कैसे होता है you know and all of that. So that I think if anything at all it helped. क्योंकि I feel like when you then enter university or college. Yeah. आपका एक बहुत different mindset होगा because जो आम बच्चा होता है जो कि एक bubble में होता है और वह college गुज़ारने के बाद उसको समझ आती है कि यार दुनिया किस तरह से चल रही है और actual demand क्या है? सोचने में तो बड़ा easy है गाड़ियां गाड़ियां बेचनी है. जब आप consumer के पास जाते हैं और उसके दस पक्के आती है ना फिर आपको समझ आती है कि यार इतना random नहीं है. Also
it got me to realize that you can't judge by book. कहना तो बहुत है don't judge a book by its cover but real world experience मिलता है ना कि एक बंदा आप जब बैठे होते हैं ना वह अंदर आता है तो आप कहते हैं यार यह गाड़ी ही लेगा and turns out in twenty minutes she has bought 10 cars. Interesting. You know so that also gave me a lot of exposure on how to, you know, you don't you talk, listen to people, you know. Everybody is not what they see. Look like, हां. Look like, you know. There are people who are doing phenomenal stuff and their upper facade doesn't show it at all.
Interesting. And so what did you study? In college. Bachelor's I did in media and marketing. Yeah. अच्छा. So you and you I mean this is nineties. There's not a lot of media.
There was media communication that just started to pick up. What got you into that? Yeah, just Curiosity? Curiosity here. Yeah, I think I've done a lot of things in life out of curiosity, you know, and then thankfully it's paid off. Interesting. And this was 9094
to '96. अच्छा. Yeah. So you graduate in media communications and so what's your first job? ZTG. And that was based in India or Dubai. Dubai. What was the role there? I was a sales executive. I see. So continuing on your past experience of sales, you just focus that on media. Yeah. They had just they had launched somewhere in '93,
'94. They had moved out of India. They had come into The Middle East. Middle East was picked up by a lady called Nazli Shah. My first boss, to date one of the toughest bosses. We met somewhere. She, you know, we had a good conversation and she said, why don't you swing by my office and the rest is history,
you know. Nice.
So, yeah. And then Pakistan was opening up. There were only two channels at that point in time. PTV था and NTM. And we decided to take zee to Pakistan. It was already coming. I don't know if you know but उस ज़माने में आठ foot का एक
वह बड़ी सी dish होती थी छापे लगी होती थी. अब वह card डालते थे उसके अंदर जाने हां, लिए LNB लगता था. हां. ठीक है ना? और वह नीचे आपके receiver होता था और card लगता था and
so उस उस पर आता था. तो उस पर Z TV था, ZE TV था और Star. So Star Plus होता था और Star World. Star World was the English version जहां पर आपके वह Baywatch आते थे और all of that and Star Plus पर सारे हिंदी drama. And that was the legal way of doing it या वह बस gray market चल रही थी कि बस.
So they are back कर रहे हो कुछ नहीं
होता था. So it was legal वह बिकता था. I forget सदर में जो market है जहां TV वगैरह, dish वगैरह भी भी मिलते हैं. वह जो पूरे electronic market है वहां पर मिलता था. And I find remember correctly the price at that point in time was around anything from Rs. 6,000 to Rs. 10,000 depending on the quality of the box that you were taking, which was pretty It was just pretty steep. It was pretty steep at that point in time, you know. I was selling ZTV and it took me three months to get one, you know. So yeah, we started selling. ZTV did phenomenally well. The again, there was no currency to gauge viewership stats and all but word-of-mouth से बड़ा चीज़ चलता था. मज़ा बड़ा आया था क्योंकि
I went so I was selling here in Dubai as well. And so you were doing the sales was B2C or were you going to distributors and convincing them? No, this was advertising sales. Ok, so you were basically what does that mean in your context?
So इश्तेहार लिखे आना.
I see, I see. So, revenue unit current for the group. Yeah.
I was not in distribution. I see. Hardware distribution कभी भी नहीं था. Later on I got in distribution for other TV channels in The Middle East. Basically, hotel distribution, sports bars, all of that. You know, that was a byproduct of the revenue generation subscription model. But largely ad sales Pakistan was an ad sales market, was an ad driven market. अभी भी it's an advertising supported market. So तीन channels होते थे. PT की था, NTM and us. मज़ा इसलिए आता था क्योंकि उस वक़्त बीस agencies होते थे. लेकिन Unilever के पंद्रह brands होते थे और चार agencies में divide थे तो सारे agencies के पास जाता था and it was good fun you know pitching to each. हालांकि Unilever का एक चार साबुन भी है, दो साबुन किसी और के साथ दो साबुन है. Market भी हुई है, TG भी हुई है, but then again selling to them or separately selling to them. They wanted a better deal than they. You know, so it was, it was, it was interesting. That's where I also met a gentleman called रिहान Merchant. He he was actually the first FMCG to go on to Z with Procter and Gamble. And he was then the CEO for Mediacom, which is part of Blaze On and then went on to become Park Mediacom, which he now runs and has been running for a long time. It's Pakistan's biggest media agency. That's why I met him. So 1998, do the math. We've known each other
that long. Interesting. Yeah. So and then you you were there for with for like, I would say six seven years? I left Zee in 2007 almost ten years. I see. Then then to CNBC?
Yeah. Then I went to so I met ज़फ़र सिद्दीकी. He passed away last year for rest in peace. Yeah. Met him. He had launched CNBC, Pakistan, and then he said, I'm launching somehow. I'd wanted to go back. I'd reached the ceiling with Zee, you know, for obvious reasons. You know, we've done massive product, massive channel launches with Zee. We did a Pakistan Saragama which we then had discovered the first पाकिस्तानी icon that went on to sing internationally, Amana Tully Khan. अच्छा. हमने format show Pakistan में ले आए थे. सारे गांव में एक Z का बहुत बड़ा program था. Lots of stuff, Z Sin Awards, you know, all of that, ground events, you know, just to maximize revenue. So, did a lot, learned a lot about content, you know, and how to get audiences engaged apart from the box. Right. So met with Zafir Siddiqui, he said, चलो let's let's go work in Pakistan. So went and then launched with with him and the team, launched Sama TV. And obviously we did CNBC Pakistan as well. Then we did summer in we launched summer in The Middle East, summer UK, different markets. Great learning news channels. News channels, I can't say the same for now, but when I was there, at least, you know, credibility थी, and it
people did watch new channels. I don't know if they're watching it now. I'm not And it's interesting because you you weren't just focused on the Pakistani market. You were even tapping into the Pakistani diaspora Yes. Which is a very interesting market more often than not. Yeah. So you got that experience as well. Determinan me, mean, so, Sama, you probably launched maybe late two thousand tens. 2007.
Right? Yeah. Two thousand seven December. And then from Sama till begin? '23. I left Sama in 2023. अच्छा, so you were just with Sama for that long? Yeah. Yeah. What was the role there? I've had multiple roles I was taking. So we did I took care of Sama FM, then launched the digital vertical revenue, overall revenue generation but worked very closely with leadership, which I also fortunately was a part of in, you know, content, news delivery, you know, how capturing news,
anchors, all of that. So, learned a lot from that. Who was the, I mean, you you mentioned ज़फ़र सिद्धिकी, but who was the,
was it a family owned thing? Was it a a company? No, he was completely, ज़फ़र सिद्धिकी was the the chairman. He was the chairman for summer CNBC, Pakistan, CNBC,
Arabia and Africa. But so this was a media based.
Based group exclusively. Yeah yeah yeah absolutely. Did they have other business issues? सफर स्थिति जी was a chartered accountant. He a managing partner for KPMG. I see. In The Middle East. I forget, I think it was Oman. Right. And The UAE. He was based out of Dubai. But he did a show back in the day. You would be, you would probably know it was Pakistan's first business show. Right. He had a company called Telebiz. Right. Which did, our खबर नागरा they did a twenty minute slot which did really well and BBC kind of picked up and syndicated. So that's where his interest in media came. So hence CNBC Arabia, then CNBC Pakistan.
So basically वह अपने ही जो जो जो accounting and finance का experience है उससे पहले वह media में आए थे eventually accounting and finance Pakistan में कितना ही आगे जाना था तो मैंने कहा क्या news की तरफ pivot करते हैं? Exactly. And so that's what And then my understanding is कि eventually summer switched hands in 2023.
2021? 2021. I switched hands. Different gentleman came and took over. And that's so I I was with I worked at with the new management also for two years. But then I was, you know, I wanted to do something different. And रेहान and I were talking for a long time you know उन्होंने कहा कि यार content की people आप content consumption की behaviour change होगी है. Let's do something. तो we had we were talking about the streaming business and so May 2023 I left and
here I am. Right. Tell me about what you're doing now. हमने start में introduce नहीं कराने हैं. We waited for it. But what's the product? What's the business? I am
the so we launched beginbegin.watch. It's a premium streaming platform over the top. We launched last year in July. Essentially, what we're doing is we are the home for premium Hollywood content. So we have deals with three of the major, three of the five major studios. We have some fascinating and big sports deals that we have struck. And so we have football about to sign with La Liga. We are AEW. We have the rights to golf. So what we're doing with begin is we're creating an ecosystem out of cricket. We wanted to do Kabaddi. We were going to stream Kabaddi World Cup earlier this year. But unfortunately, the Pakistan team could not make it to London because of visa issues. So we opted out so you know and कबड्डी कबड्डी league in India is doing really well you know there is a lot of interest in that.
And this is all live programming that you are also All showing sports
live sports yeah. Interesting. We did the सुल्तान आज़लान शाह hockey cup he so kind of bought back hockey after, you know, many many years. They made it to the final, fortunately for us at the platform. So, yeah. And then obviously, local उर्दू programming that we have acquired from the market, dramas वगैरह. And now we're about to launch our first first batch of original local original programming. Interesting.
Which is two dramas. Just to get some quick context on कि जो product है वह hair care system. We are by the way a subscription based SVOD. Yeah. I see. Is it on web? Is it on app? It's on app. Is the TV? It's also on web. IOS, Android? Three sixty degree, wherever you can sort of touch it. What about the technology behind it? Right? So a lot of times we've seen telcos get into something like this. वह होता यही है कि वह जाते जाकर वह. क्योंकि telcos inherently have always had a they are a marketing company. Yeah. Right? They put a bunch of things together and they sell you a product on top of that. तो उसी flavor के साथ वह आए और उन्होंने बहुत सारी चीज़ें launch की कभी fintech में घुस गए, media में घुस गए but user experience में ना वह हमेशा मेरे हिसाब से बहुत poor रहा है because they did not own the technology. Yeah. और वह FOMO के खाते में कि यार दुनिया में अब tech company वन रही है तो हम भी tech company वन जाते वह tech company का एक DNA होता है. It's a very agile, very sort of consumer first. आपकी tech, is it white labeled tech? No. Or is it in house, In house, ground up ground ground up.
That which is one of the reasons why, you know, we're now full fledged campaigns. शुरू होगी because our tech, we wanted our tech to be solid. So completely in house, ground up and that is one of our biggest
strengths. How good is it? Can you compare that to Netflix or Disney
plus or whatnot? Because again I think I can watch Netflix US programs in Dubai through a VPN. You cannot watch anything on begin if you're in Dubai. What's what's geolocked for Pakistan? You cannot watch it. That's how good we are.
That's fine. So enterprise level के ऊपर user experience की बात करोगे? User experience seamless
with the PSL going on right now last week with the the masters golf seven matches
English premier league PSL के दो matches on सब simultaneously चल रहा है. सब simultaneously रहा है. वह पिछले दिनों हुआ था ना वह दराज़ वालों ने एक time पर गया था दो तीन साल पहले PSL वह crash कर गई app और सच लोगों ने वैसे आ गया सार मारा. सब simultaneously चल रहा था. कभी आपका crash हुआ है? No. Ok. So you you built and the
Yeah. We have a great team led by a gentleman called Nabil. He is ex Tamasha. Right. And so he's phenomenal. He is we've built he's built the entire back end tech for begin. Nice. Down the line we are looking at even outsourcing and white labeling our tech to different other markets, you know. It's a it's a form of revenue generation. But that's down the line. Yeah.
Right. मुझे यह बताएं कि अभी subscriber base कहां खड़ी हुई है? कितना बंदार है? What's the success जो expected था उसके हिसाब से है? It can always be better.
Yeah, so I'm not going to say that yeah, है. हमसे तो better कोई है ही नहीं. It can always be better. Yes, it's a learning curve. Every day is a, there's a, there's a curve ball thrown at you. You have to duck and then you learn something, you know. Overall downloads have been great. But I think, you know, you you break your journey into small little milestones as opposed to यार मैंने साल के अंदर ना चार लाख paid subscribers थे किया ना हम कहते Initially when we are planning that then we realized you know humble थोड़ा सा हो गए then we said here let's go with यार महीने में let's do 5,000, फिर देखते हैं फिर सात हज़ार you know so we doing. So we've we've got the downloads are pretty significant. We have close to about 25 to 30,000 paying subscribers at Monthly active. Monthly active subscribers at this point in time. Nice. Yeah. And the subscription is $9.99?
$9.99. Yes. Paid through credit card or other? So,
credit card but also now we have digital mobile wallet payments through Jazz, Cash, EasyPaisa, etcetera. Because that is a large
base obviously. But उसके अंदर do you have carrier billing जो कि वह कहते हैं कि जी आप credit से pay कर सकते हैं और यह वही या वह अभी तक नहीं की. वह वह अभी हो जाएगी. We are we just because उसकी policy regulations and all of that you know so that is almost done and that should be also
incorporated
into the. Card payments are directly through the app or are they part of the वह होता ना जितना एक वह subscription app अगर है मेरे पास तो वह Apple Store charge करता है. It's through a gateway,
Stripe
international card. अच्छा तो उसमें दरमियान में let's say Apple या Google cuts नहीं ले रहा है या वह manage नहीं कर रहा? Interesting. अच्छा so पहले तो मुझे यह बताएं कि in a in a market जहां पर बड़े मग़रमाच हैं Netflix, HBO, this, that. What made you think कि आप successful हो सकते हैं? Because आप वह उस it's it's an economic thing, right? आपके पास कभी वह पैसा ही नहीं हो सकता, वह talent ही नहीं हो सकता to give the same experience but more importantly जो quality of programming होगी वह जाहिर है कि वह लोग global deals कर रहे हैं और जिस जिस जिस the level of catalog that they would have logically normal बंदा सोचेगा कि मैं इसमें घुसता ही नहीं हूं यह तो बड़े players हैं वो ले गए हैं and that's it. Having said that although we have seen players like Stars play come in, Mico come in So clearly उसके अंदर एक एक एक competitive space वन रही है, develop हो रही है. जब आप इसके अंदर घुसे थे तो did you think about कि यार ये सारे के सारे challenges हैं? इसको हमने किस तरह से करना है and over time you've been launched for a year now? Yes. How almost a year? July 20. Right and you would have that data गया जो actually आ रहा है वह देखकर आ रहा है. Yeah absolutely. So cataloging को आप किस तरह से देखते हैं in terms of competing with global huge players?
So, one of the key takeaways, from the data that we have gotten, you know, after the launch, in the last couple of months, sports is a huge driver, and I think we'll continue to be so. Yes, also the access to premium western content also is a so people will come in. For the sports? Or also come in for the local original programming which we are planning to launch because you know we are getting a lot of feedback. Really launched with that. We have got a lot of old log, old programming that has been acquired, that has been on other platforms, largely linear televisions. So that's being watched but वह कहते हैं कि, you know, the feedback that our customer service people get that when are you launching your own, when are you bringing your own begin originals, you know? And I think the the expectation is very high because so far the content offering has been phenomenal. You know, it's been up there. So that expectation is like, yeah, these guys might bring in something, you know, worthwhile even when it comes to the पाकिस्तानी content offering. So so that and then obviously that western content is also parked there. So you'll find your godfather as well. You'll find The Office, you'll find Oppenheimer. So everything is there. Right? Coming back to your point about Netflix and HBO. Yes, Netflix is there in Pakistan. The others are not. Maybe Apple, I'm I'm not a big fan of Apple TV and either am I of Amazon. I think the user experience,
they need to still work on that. Amazon user experience is scrap. Yeah. I hate it. I've tried to avoid it as much as I can. Apple तो I feel I can't because I mean the business species. Understandable but Apple तो I feel like is such an exclude I don't even see that as a player वह एक एक एक publishing house है जिसने अपना वह बना लिया. उनका उस पर आप subscription लेते तो ज़्यादा वह catalog भी कोई इतनी heavy नहीं होती. But आपके पास across these multiple subscriptions भी content available है? Come again. So for example मुझे इस वक़्त एक problem यह आती है कि मुझे जाना Netflix मुझे shows तो मुझे across different देख रहे ना HBO का मैं six Yes, 100 that's 90 the problem that we're solving. Right?
So, Netflix के सिर्फ़ साढ़े चार चार चार चार साढ़े चार लाख subscribers हैं paying. Pakistan में? Pakistan में, right? बांग्लादेश में कोई दो ढाई लाख ऐसी कुछ है तीन लाख होंगे. But Pakistan के लिए लेते हैं. Those 400,000, 400, 450,000 people उसके 70% जो लोग हैं वह Netflix से subscribe कर ही रहे हैं but they also have access too because at some point they've lived in The US, किसी का बच्चा रह चुका है, किसी का Middle East में काम करता है, कोई पढ़ चुका है, all of that so they have an HBO connection, they have a Disney plus connection also, they have Hulu connection, ठीक है ना? अब वह आता है अब क्योंकि he had no choice but Netflix पर तो ठीक है एक content offering है but Hulu पर जो exclusive content है he wants to his wife wants to watch The Real Housewives you know. Right. Keeping up with the Kardashians or whatever. वह सिर्फ Hulu पर available है. ठीक है ना? Game of Thrones सिर्फ HBO पर है you know. So अब वह access करने के लिए वह VPN भी लेता है. You know. So that is you're talking easily of thirty to forty dollars a month if you do the math of altogether, you know. What we and this was रेहान's, you know, thought process and and the the white white वह भी लिखा है, this is what we're gonna do, you know, was that we bring everything onto the the platform and we make it available. So now you don't have to go one. It's it's it's easily available, it's legal and it's affordable. Ok, so our price point is like you said it's close to $2.03 $3.09 99 ऐसी कुछ है.
Tell me about the legal aspect of it. You mentioned legal Pakistan is a मौत मतलब भरी पड़ी है piracy में. वह पहले जाते हैं जाकर websiteओं के ऊपर watch all the movies, hair.com type website पर जाते हैं. वहां पर देख लेते उसमें viruses भी आते हैं. सारा को जाते हैं but, you know, free है तो free है. You got a lot a lot of these sort of streaming services. मैं जब Pakistan में जाता तो नया tel का वह एक word solution था उसमें आपको हर चीज़ है ना पहली कोशिश में torrent करके उसमें upload हुई भी होती थी. इस तरह की market के अंदर बड़ा मुश्किल है very honestly because आप किस किस को कैसे कैसे जाकर के रोकने की कोशिश करेंगे? कोई enforcement है नहीं. So मुज़ेबाल I will tell you something so torrent वगैरह तो चलो ठीक है that is a problem
that we will always have to live with. But torrent I feel like that's a thousand में से ही. वह तो US में भी है. हां वह तो India में भी है Australia में भी है. ठीक है that is that
is something. Most level of expert I would say at this point में वह expert user है उसको आप Exactly वह इतनी ख्वारी एक
normal जो बंदा जो अपने घर पर काम के बाद आता है he wants to watch something he wants to catch a game he wants to watch a series you know. He is not going to go. Wants, he will pick take the first pick that's available, right? Right. So, आप नया tell की ISPs की बात कर रहे हैं. वह content pirated है जो भी है, ठीक है? But it's वह pirate कर रहे हैं but to the consumer they are paying for it. आप दे रहे हैं ना पंद्रह सौ रुपए, दो हज़ार रुपए for whatever, ठीक है ना? ISP इसको for your internet and your cable channels, right? But you're paying, right? So आपके ज़ेन में तो यह नहीं you don't know कि वह pirated है. Right. ठीक है? So what we have done now is that we became members of ACE, which is the largest, the biggest piracy association globally of which everybody, the big names are all part of. So it's called the Alliance for Creativity and Entertainment. Your HBOs and Disney's and GeoStars and Starsports and Bean, OSN, Shahids, NBC's all are a part of it. We applied for it a couple of months ago. You have to have a solid business in place. Know, we हमने prove किया कि, you know, we're a legitimate and serious player and piracy is a huge issue. So we became members with them. So they are helping us a lot. We've partnered with the likes of Bean, OSN जहां पर सारे piracy चल रहे through the ISPs and all of that. The studios that we are in partners with have also helped us. So हमने court के through for all the content that we have rights to, हमने stay लिया हुआ. Having said that, the job is not done, you know. That's where the real jobs are. I have to shout out to my legal team. They've done a phenomenal job getting all of this done in in, you know, time that would have normally taken years you know. अब काम शुरू है so what we हम पता है क्या? हम we are not going to say, we don't want God saying कि यार यह मेरा content है अब तुम बंद करो और court में मिलते हैं. नहीं, we want to work with them, ठीक है ना? वह भी मेरे मेरे पास rights. आप मुझसे बीस ले लें. अपने उस पर दे दें, अपने VOD की offering पर दे दें client को और बोलोगे अब consumer को बोलो कि यार now if you tell the you have to educate. आप educate ही नहीं कर रहे हैं consumer को, ठीक है? और वह जो consumer दे रहा और वह Netflix के भी पैसे दे रहे हैं, HBV पैसे दे रहा है. मैं ISPs की बात हूं. Let's not talk about the cable operators, ठीक है? No ISPs. They go into reasonably well to do homes in in Pakistan, कराची, लोहौर and इस्लाहाबाद, right? आप उनको educate बोलते यार कि यार we are trying to solve a problem. हम legal content लेकर आना चाहे अच्छी quality के हम आप पैसे देंगे, हम अपने fiber में और पैसे लगाएंगे. We'll go into digital, you know, the the end product that you will receive will be for better quality, right? So we'll we're willing to give them that content. Know, बीस बीस movies ले लो on a monthly basis reshuffle it. Golf के साथ हमने किया अभी. हमने golf का basically they shut it down because you know we paid significant money to the PGA you know and हमने कहा कि यार यह भी हम कैसे monetize करेंगे? अगर आप NBC golf भी दिखा रहे हैं, Sky Sports भी दिखा रहा है, you know. अच्छा, those people also now they've also come on board because they know they're being pirated. It's their duty also now to make sure that they do something about it because now we're members of ACE, you know, because then we can go to ACE and say listen, these guys, these guys abroad are not doing anything. So the pressure is also from there. Right. It is a potential lawsuit, you know. Right. So now so now they are all coming together. So हमने एक feed दे दी golf की. I don't know if you know, I don't know if you know how golf works. पूरा दिन चलता है but एक main feed होती है. तो हमने जो तीन चार तीन feed होती जो पूरी दिन की चलती पहले main feed होती है. Main feed हम चलाते हैं बाकी feeds हमने उनको दे दिए because I have the market rights. Right. ठीक है? So और पर फिर हमने एक वह banner भी डाल दिया कि यार go to begin to watch the main feed. ठीक है ना? Subscription क्यों नहीं है? क्योंकि available है ना? जब available नहीं होगा तो लोग पैसे देंगे. हां. You know, so that is, that is the route that we are taking. So we we we हम बदमाशी नहीं करेंगे. We want to work with everybody. What's the cost like for
for acquiring content? Is it like आप catalogue जाकर acquire करते हैं? Is it a subscription? Is it a one time? या आप जाकर हर piece individually बैठकर acquire कर रहे होते हैं? यह studios के साथ we've locked three year deals.
Right. Because we figured that you know first year के बाद when they see the traction यह foreign price बढ़ जाएगी, you know. But so we've locked. And so उनकी पूरी catalogue आपको मिलेगी? Yes, they've given us the entire catalogue but obviously we've picked and chosen. पूरा catalogue तो लेना, it's not possible. Let me give you a small example. We have a very great deal with NBC. So that we have deals with NBC Universal, Sony Pictures and Paramount. Now, let's take NBC Universal. The good thing about having worked in, you know, Z and the CNBC network and all of that you know a lot of people that I have met throughout my career have moved from different places you know तो it's a small fraternity and even like I have friend of friend is sitting there तो वह contact ही तो वह कहते यार this guy is looking to buy content you know for Pakistan. So NBC we went and they were they were when we said like they were like are you sure? He is like yeah we are going to do this you know. तो उसने कहा कि यार piracy हमने कहा हम piracy भी handle करेंगे. मैंने कहा आप यह catalogue होने चाहिए. तो open eye में ले लो you know Christopher Nolan यह जो movie थी eight women we started to negotiate. उन्होंने कहा कि यार यह Netflix एक cooling off period होता है, ठीक है? उन्होंने कहा कि cooling off के बाद then we'll give it to you, right? उन्होंने कहा कि मैंने कहा कितना है क्या? Netflix ने $250,000 दिए हैं for you know the subcontinent. अच्छा उन पर यह clause था कि भाई मैं subcontinent के लिए अगर कोई Pakistan आकर when they think when these big platforms it subcontinent for them is India. ठीक है? Because market is so huge है कि nobody is looking at. So to to come back to your point where ना कि यार Netflix है वह Netflix is not looking at Pakistan. You know ठीक है वह.
वह एक एक एक nice to have है but they are not actively putting towards that. But I will come to something later.
तो we manage to strike a deal with them. मैं हमने कहा कि यार dark market है भाई. Pirate piracy के issues हैं. आप तो आपको वह x amount तो मिल ही रहा है Netflix से. आप मुझे दे दो आपको x plus और कुछ मिल रहा है Pakistan की market के लिए, ठीक है ना? तो उनको समझ में आया तो इसी तरह से उनको Sony Pictures को भी समझ आया और Paramount को भी समझ में आया. So the pricing is very very cheap, you know, because I mean we told them we're we're we're opening up a new dark market for you. We're also helping you because if you help us with a good price then we will, you know, we will be able to populate, solve piracy and then market बढ़ेगी तो पैसे भी बढ़ जाएंगे. You know, simple है you know. So we picked it up for one tenth the price. They were nice enough. We had it from May but we went live in July. उन्होंने कहा कि यार क्यों हमें contract sign हुई थी end May 2024. July में they gave it to us. उन्होंने कहा यार क्योंकि Netflix पर ना उन्होंने कहा कि यार एक साल के बाद हम open कर देंगे. So if you noticed it came on to Pakistan, Netflix in Pakistan on March 21 this year. So we had exclusive. उस वक्त तक सबने juice निकाल दिया था. जिसने देखा था उसने देख चुका था Big interest. So that was a good window for us, you know, to so just telling you, giving you an example of how
we've managed to strike deals, you know. Interesting. Yeah. Sports के लिए obviously we have to go per season. You know it's a. वह constantly हाथों पर bidding होती और उसके हिसाब से होता है. अगर मैं sports का देना I wanna sort of move towards a more wider discussion on the media industry in Pakistan and how it's sort of shifting but if I put my brainstorming hat on sports has been a has always been a conversation in Pakistan. मैंने ना multiple times I've had tennis stars and martial arts stars and so on and so forth in Pakistan on the podcast और एक बड़ी घिसी पीटी सी line होती है government कुछ करती नहीं है government जो है वह आकर support करें तो हम कर लें. मैं उस line से इस वजह से agree नहीं करता क्योंकि एक developing nation की government जो है ना उसके पास बड़े मसले हैं. वह नहीं कर सकते. वह नहीं कर सकते और every person just looks at the government in a country which has Lowest one of the tax to GDP ratios which has one of the lowest investment ratios, savings ratios. तो economics के ही ऐसे मसले हैं कि आप उससे government से agree करें या ना agree करें वह एक अलग discussion है. अगर आप realistically देखें तो government से यह काम नहीं कर सकती. आप अगर India को भी देखते हैं तो private sector हर चीज़ में घुसा. चाहे वह education हो, चाहे वह media हो, चाहे हो और private sector private sector championed solutions that mainstreamed a lot of these industries in India. तो जब sports की मेरी जब भी discussion हुई है ना तो मेरे लिए बड़ा no brainer सा रहा है कि यार sports में actually nobody comes for the sports. There is actually a bunch of different gold standard rivalries rivalries हैं. Cricket जो है वह वह most watched sporting event होता है जब Pakistan India final में तो आ जाता मेरे लिए तो it's a no brainer that Pakistan में आप sports की बहुत सारी products build कर सकते हो. Absolutely. Considering that a big part of your co founder जो आपके रिहान merchant साहब हैं. उसका एक advertising से connection है. He was also
back in the day responsible for he was part of the team that launched
PSL. ज़बरदस्त. तो मैं I was just coming to that as well कि PSL ने आपको एक model तो दे दिया. Exactly. ठीक है? अब दुनिया ने बड़ी सुनी की जी उसकी football की league आने वाली है, hockey की league आने वाली है but I understand कि वह मसला यह होता है कि कि जब आप original programming का सोचते हैं do you imagine कि यार हम sports की इस पूरी चीज़ को champion करके own कर लें because there's a lot I mean sports is money. It's big money. And more often than not problem statement in my opinion starts from the distribution. The reason why sport leagues haven't been able to work is because कभी वह distribution थी ही नहीं जिस पर आप जाकर advertisers को commit कर सकते कि यार मेरे पास एक लाख बंदा दो solid है जिसको मैं दिखाना शुरू करूंगा और eventually उसको बढ़ा दूं. Yeah yeah. So
let me, I'll give you example of what we're planning to do with one of the partnerships that we've just signed, लालिगा. Ok, रेहान and I have been with in talks with La multiple meetings. Reihan met with the president of La Liga as well. Great gentleman. Also big on piracy, you know, and we are now almost there. Laliga does, an outreach program in markets like Iraq and Egypt. And because of Rihane's, experience with PSL and, you know, creating the league and all of that, We have said that we just don't want to be streaming partners, ठीक है? हालांकि वह भी ज़बरदस्त है because अभी इस वक़्त लालिगा जो है ना सिर्फ़ भीन पर आ रहा है वह भी क्योंकि we are now working on the piracy shutting down भीन हो तो visibility zero हो गई and my son basically was like, वह and his friends say that यार your father shut down or the company shut down. Bean अब कहां देखें लालिगा? मैंने कहा अब begin पर देंगे. But वह तो चलो streaming के angle से हो गया. What we want to do is we want to create with the help of लालिगा create अब football वैसे ही इतना चल रहा है you know अब legends arena and all of that in in कराची. So teams चल रही है तो interest in football is huge. So we partnering with लालिगा to start an outreach program in कराची लोहौर and इस्लामाबाद to start so where लालिगा will come in. They'll they'll send in two players maybe every quarter you know from the लालिगा academy tournaments कराएंगे तो लालिगा का ना हमाएगा, ठीक है? So वह interest अब generate होगा ना and obviously then schools will come in, colleges, universities will come in, teams will come in. Then तो ground से जो शुरू होती है ना वह एक होता है कि club cricket से फिर first division और फिर all of फिर एक team में आता है. So that's where we want to start the the, you know, foundation of starting getting all these players because you need someone to back you up, right? You need a name to back you. पैसा तो is is there. Everybody will throw in. But then advertisers will then come, you know, will because you're creating that that interest on the ground for all these teams that is back then लालिगा will endorse, you know, and then referees are coming, players are coming, you know, who will be on on ground. So, their whole interest will be generated. तो advertiser पैसा आएगा the ecosystem
will will build. So that's how we using begin to support that. Makes sense but again मैं इसको अगर थोड़ा सा side से आकर angle लेकर आऊं मैं मेरा सवाल बड़ा simple है. When can we see a football league जिसमें स्नाहाबाद United भी है? जिसमें कराची kings भी हैं? Potentially उन्हीं के जो owners हैं I am sure they will love to enter the the वह as well. क्या इसमें कोई regulatory problem है? Yes. क्या इसके अंदर वह Pakistan football federation के जो role हैं वह चलते रहते हैं? इसका framework
बहुत पहले से तैयार है. It should have been up and about but again
politics and यह जो leagues हैं यह सिर्फ government endorsed ही चल सकती हैं. क्या इसका locked in होता है? बिल्कुल,
government endorsed है. तो that as we speak that is being worked upon and
separately रेहान obviously through his other companies also working on that. Do you think we will see a football league anytime soon? Yes. Legit, proper high end, PSL style, city representation? It should have been, we are late. It's, it it is now, it's only about to happen very soon. Do you think we might see similar stuff in other sports as well? So there are some early जो आपको ना clear नज़र आ रहे हैं जहां पर Pakistan globally actually represent कर रहा है. चलो squash था, hockey था.
Volleyball? Volleyball beach Federation चल रहा ना सब
बनकर खींच हो रहा है. Interesting. Yeah. But कुछ ऐसे हैं जो कि ना बड़ा खेल लिया अपना नज़ब. So mix martial arts या boxing जो Yes. है उसके अंदर पाकिस्तानियों ने globally नाम बनाया है. Right और उसमें आमिर ख़ान came back, built an academy. MMA के अंदर अभी recently Dubai में fight हुई. India, Pakistan, the guy won and तो clearly वहां पर आपको early successes, global successes नज़र आ रही हैं.
Saying this. Let's call a spade a spade. One of the other platforms, MYCO did a great job with the squash world championship, ठीक है ना? And वह जितना create interest create किया है. So now it's it's gonna pick up. So that जो अभी recently पाक्ष्टानी world champion में निकला. Yeah. Right. That was a great move on their part, you know. Everybody said यार squash but अब the kid who won पाकिस्तानी kid and now suddenly everybody is talking about it. है? So, so people are now squash courts have started to fill up, you know, and all of that. So these things are happening now.
Its glamour drives passion. Absolutely. तो तो I believe Distribution visibility.
हां. Yeah yeah. Right?
इसी context के अंदर अगर आप मुझे बताएं e sports. Right? So, I don't know if you've heard of अरस्लान ऐश? Yes yeah The guy is just he's changed the game. Yeah. I I don't know कि अगर आप उसको follow करें ना तो उसने वह he just did not go and win. He created a team of पाकिस्तानीs. Now they dominate the world of Yes yeah. And he's actually started now going and taking three other games. उसमें वह कर रहा है. उसको उठाकर Saudi ले गए और Saudiों ने अपनी पूरी esports की शहर बना लिया. वह उसके अंदर उसको drive कर रहे हैं. Again, I मैं government की तो बात ही नहीं करूंगा. लेकिन private sector उसको leverage क्यों नहीं कर पा रहा? Like, अरसान को मैं देख रहा हूं ना Pakistan में जो esports की एक बहुत बड़ी community है, they all wait कि अरसान यह बड़ा होगा? हां और वह दे और wait कि अरसान ना आता है. आकर उसके Twitter के ऊपर आकर वह एक video डालता है कि भाई मैं फिर से एक championship जीत गया. फिर उसका जो reruns होते हैं वह clips की form में लोग देख रहे होते हैं. यार why can't this not happen कि Unfortunately
problem यह है कि यह होता रहेगा. ठीक है ना? And collectively and not just the streaming platforms but the sports channels we will have to you know take on the onus of you know promoting these sports, e sports और UFC and and platform पर है देखा because and then create उसको ground events को promote करें, ठीक है ना? So plug your your जो streaming or your whatever if you're swinging on TV, plug it into the ground events as well, ठीक है ना? वह behind the scenes जो कहते ना basically वह भी सिर्फ़ match stream करना नहीं होता है. वह उसकी पूरी training create create a story, एक story बनाना होता है. You know so that now has to happen and it's happening on on many on many levels. I I know multiple players and when I say multiple players, linear TV channels, streaming platforms, we're working on Yeah. Creating What's the and once that happens, वह फिर advertiser का comfort होगा तो वह पैसा डालना है. वह तो मेरे से snowball effect है. Then snowball
Yeah yeah I actually saw that and that's phenomenal how they took a fairly मतलब non urban sport. Yeah yeah. And made it like this exciting south Asian ethnic but also very modern
rendition of how that sport is now who wants. I don't know about schools now but when I खैर I was in मस्कृत but even I don't know if I I don't remember अगर प्राचीय went to Saint Pat's याद आता कि हमने कबड्डी खेला नहीं खेला है. But I played कबड्डी in school. अच्छा, interesting. You know. So I I मेरा
schooling was all of nineties and then 2010 तक कोई scene नहीं थे कबड्डी का. Right कबड्डी was this sort of rural sport. वह लोग खेलते थे और और कभी कभार वह PTV पर आ जाता था कि यार पाक्सानी team कुछ हो गई है, कुछ जीतती है. मैं nineteen eighty six में when I moved to कराची to school,
squash was big until at least the mid nineties.
You know. You had world champions one after the other. Squash was big. So, again for the sport to be
if for the people to continue playing the sport, you need heroes. Yeah. And heroes हम ही हम नहीं बनाने, government नहीं बनाएगी.
Rides हैं ऐसी cost हैं, right? Absolutely. अभी इस वक़्त आपका जो money and money out के अंदर how much of of of money is being burnt या आप लोग sustainable point के ऊपर पहुंच चुके हैं या Oh no we're not. अभी आप उसी उस पर हैं कि यार हम series a, series b, series c and at some point हम कुछ बनकर निकलेंगे. We're, no, we're not we're at this point in time we're
not profitable at all. We're still बनेगा. But as expected,
we What would the plan look like? कि यार at some at what point in how many years do you think कि यार what's the business model है? कि क्या बस यह एक एक एक startup style है बस पैसे pump करें, scale बढ़ाते रहें या एक point पर आपने देखा हुआ है कि यार इसमें इतने margins हैं कि eventually फिर हम अपने आप को ख़ुद से fuel कर सकते हैं. I think within so we are in our
I will not disclose names but we are closing our just technically we are not seed with pre series A because we've already put in a lot of money and we're so we are the restraction in post revenue as well. We need the money to scale now, you know, for obvious reasons. We will I don't know about profitability but we will be in a situation to put money back within anywhere between eighteen to twenty four months of the business. So yes, and where do we, where do we see this going? Here, very simple. Everybody is looking at India right now. The streaming war in India is just through the roof, you know, between the Disney plus - by the way Disney, I I don't know if you know, sold their India assets to GeoStar. So now GeoStar basically Disney is now just a a plug in on the GeoStar app as is Warner Brothers and Viacom. So at some point India is going to reach its ceiling, you know. Where do you go? Middle East में तो already चल रहा है काम, ठीक है? Stars Play भी है, यहां पर Netflix भी है, शायद भी है, Todd भी है, ठीक है? और सबने अपनी बना ली है नीच, ठीक है? तो कौन सी market रह गई है? Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka? Between the three, these three countries you're looking at 450,000,000 people, ठीक है? Again, demographics 50% 30, ठीक है? Smartphone users close to 200,000,000 if you put all three in a rough estimate. The way they are viewing content, they all want content, they want to watch content at their discretion. They are not going to watch, switch on TV to watch, आठ बजे कोई show आ रहा है तो they they want it to be acceptable. So these big players will now then eventually come to these markets, ठीक है? We want to be there all set कि when they come let's talk.
Makes sense. Netflix आपने कहा चार साढ़े चार लाख audience है. मैं कहता हूं यार minimum viable पांच dollar वह करते हैं. Tax तो उसके ऊपर कोई भी नहीं दे रहे हैं direct billing हो रही है बाहर की. पांच dollar के हिसाब से वह roughly 2,000,000 monthly तो निकाल रहे हैं. चौबीस million annually निकाल रहे हैं उस पर tier ज़्यादा भी है मैंने जो इस तरह for example four k वाला tier लिया हुआ था तो अठारह सौ दो हज़ार का था $78 तो easy जा रहा था but मैं average out करके निकाल लेता हूं. And this is no investment for Pakistan by the way. हां, so मैं exactly मेरा question इसमें यह आ रहा था कि जी मेरी I was speaking to a few friends जो जो हमारे YouTube की domains हैं वह web series वगैरह के ऊपर काम करते हैं उन्होंने कहा कि यार यहां पर दुबई के अंदर average episode जो है वह दस बारह पंद्रह हज़ार dollar की बिकती है कि India में जो mainstream था घुसी घुसी actually mainstream थोड़ा late घुसी थी उससे पहले आपके यह sort of viral fever इन सारों ने आ के ना बड़े baseline के सामने छोटी छोटी web series बनाना शुरू कर दिए. So they actually leverage a lot of their YouTube following and brought them to Netflix by by by creating higher quality exclusive web series for them. Pakistan में unfortunately जितने भी हमारी YouTube crowd है जो जो filmmaking site के ऊपर ज़्यादा है उनके पास मदद कोई growth नहीं है. वह आज तक जो है ना बड़ा बड़ा filmmaker है मूरू है और बहुत सारे हैं जो कि बेचारे बस वह vlogging में ही फंसे रहे क्योंकि ecosystem ही कोई नहीं था और मैं I mean I'm surprised $2,000,000 के ऊपर यार आप $1,000,000 भी लगाओ pitch करने जाएं तो वह mood ही नहीं होता उनका. वह सुनना ही नहीं चाहते चाहे आप जो भी उनको भेजते हैं. I'm curious कि Pakistan के अंदर आपने original programming की बात की. पहला तो यह है कि are you going towards कि भाई मैं हम TV और express और इनके जो drama बनते हैं उनको मैं originally मैं देखता हूं market में क्या available है? वह हमके पास जाने के बजाय मैं उठा लेता हूं या are you being a bit more innovative with the sort Far of stuff that you're more innovative. And what sort of original programming can we potentially look at? So
drama तो है serials. I'm not a very big, you know, I don't watch a lot of पाकिसानी dramas. But yes, from the the I've seen the the first cuts and the was part of the when the scripts and all were going. They're all in production and almost locked, sets close हो रहे हैं. Great stories and top notch directors,
writers and actors. Similar stories than compare to? No.
Kind of. कोई से नाम सिख ले सकते हैं आप हमें क्या रिश्ता है? Yeah, I'd rather not say but let's just say it's not your regular stuff. शौर्य
controversial है? For example अब आपका Netflix का boom आया एक जमाने में House of cards है. उन्होंने political drama उठाया और political drama के ऊपर वह कहां से कहां लेंगे? इस समय बहुत सारे genres हैं Pakistan मतलब 09:00 news was our biggest entertainment in Pakistan right? So I would say
political also cutting edge controversial topics that you would not be able to see on पाकिस्तानी TV. The sort of उन्होंने सही juice किया उसको. You know, उन्होंने कहा देखिए last episode हम नहीं दिखाएंगे with sentiment लेकिन ताकत दिखा दिया था उन्होंने and yeah, it's there. But yes, we are being mindful. But yes, we have pushed the envelope, you know. I see. So because अगर हमने वही दिखाया तो we are the TV जो satellite Pakistan TV channels पर आ रहे हैं and and they are doing a good job too you know not taking anything away for them but they are working within a certain parameter. हां, वह disruptive तो नहीं होगा ना? वह same चीज़ है ना different होगा. हां, वह rules and regulations and all of that. ठीक है ना? वह है. And I I I do think that of recently they have, you know Expanded out. Expanded out, you know. They have been touching on topics that really get you thinking. But, we are working on a lot of cutting edge topics.
When's the first of these programming start coming out?
Here,
end of quarter two, start of quarter three. Yeah. I see. Okay. So The other thing we'll be doing is format programming. We're bringing What does that mean? Pakistan Idol निक्यारिया. Oh, interesting. Yeah. That's a relaunch of that. I'm I'm assuming because last time franchise for I hope you do a better job than the last time. That's the plan.
That's the plan. We're working with we're working directly with Fremantle. I see. And the team is the team is about to come to Pakistan. So we go into production, I think sometime in June.
Because ShahTime did a phenomenal job. Yes. They have been able to somehow maintain the global aesthetic and the quality while actually reaching out to mass market audience. So उनको उसको dumb down करके अजीब नहीं करना पड़ा just so that masses देख रहे हैं. Masses ने देखा भी they have actually I mean beyond the media aspect of it they have actually been monumental. Yeah. In creating and helping teach people about entrepreneurship and all of that. So so I'm curious कि So Pakistan Idol we've signed for three years.
Obviously it's an expensive IP. What we'd and it it's no way could we have monetized that completely on begin. Right? So, again, like I said, partnerships. You have to create partnerships. Right? So we're partnering with TV channels, possibly with maybe another streaming platform as well, where because you want to keep the quality up there. But we will subsidize at least पैसे हमारे हिस्से में जो आ रहे हैं, at least subsidize the cost you know divide the cost between players. So TV channels के बाद थोड़ी है. Probably do the Koch studio formula you know where and Koch studio was phenomenal because इतनी visibility आएगी थी it became a massive success you know so that's the route that we're taking. Begin पर हम कैसे इसको करेंगे? कुछ exclusive content हम begin के लिए रखेंगे behind the scenes so yes.
Yeah. Makes sense and then last thing about the product I am curious. मैंने actually पिछले दिनों एक साथ ऐसे हुआ हम तो YouTube के लोग हैं ठीक है हमारा धंधा जो है वह YouTube पर चलता है उसी के around monetization है कोई बहुत अच्छी नहीं है Pakistan में तो but यह कहे हमने चला लिया अलहम्दुर्लाम चले गए Globally जब आप youtubers को देखते हैं तो वह तो game ही अलग है. क्योंकि industry ऐसी ecosystem ऐसा set हुआ है कि वह एक चीज़ करते हैं और उसके उसको monetize करने के पचास partners हैं वह आकर कहते यार हम यह कर लेंगे, हम वह कर लेंगे और करते करते बहुत सारा पैसा वन जाता है. कौन देखेगा? मैं YouTube के ऊपर मुश्किल आता हूं आगे free में देता हूं उसके ऊपर कोई audience आ जाती है हमारे भी early days थे. ख़ैर long story short अभी मुझे महीना डेढ़ पहले this this lady who's who work with us she has since moved on एक एक एक potential medium है जिस medium के around मैं potentially products build करके क्योंकि अब अगर उनके पास subscriber base है तो it's really about कि यार उस उस particular subscriber base के लिए मैं क्या बना सकता हूं कि मैं उसकी viewership लूं और फिर viewership के ऊपर my understanding है इसके आप उस पर जो जो jazz का at least model था उनका यह था कि जी वह एक total subscription fee उसके अंदर total minutes watched divided by whatever whatever के ऊपर आपको वह मिल जाएगा. And दरमियान में और भी लोग आए अभी recently एक player आए उन्होंने कहा जी हम जहाज़ों में डब्बे डाल रहे हैं तो आप जो है वह आकर कर दें तो अगर आप कर देंगे तो फिर हम successful हो जाएंगे तो फिर हम कुछ pay कर देंगे but you know I mean. Yeah. अब चूंकि आपके पास एक subscriber base है आपके पास एक revenue generation model है. I am curious कि for people how much are you interested and open for partnerships जिसके अंदर innovative products हैं and potentially be built in a model of कि यार हम आपके साथ आकर करेंगे, हम आपसे कोई lump sum नहीं लेंगे. लेकिन जो भी global model standard है जिस तरह YouTube का एक model है कि यार वह बंदा अगर subscriber है, YouTube का subscription भी होती है. Yeah, absolutely. तो उसका x amount YouTube लेकर जाता है. Y amount जो है वह divided across all the different platforms that he has seen and and and that's generally a better sum than ads. उसके ऊपर क्या you can can you see products being built? Absolutely. In its eventuality? Absolutely absolutely.
Yeah. We want to be a platform for content creators as well. We and we so, sadly, what's happened is, you know, because of the the top three or four networks or the broadcasters, you know, who work with a select production houses or content creators, a lot of talented aspiring content creators haven't had the chance to showcase their work. And as a result of पैसे भी नहीं generate हुए and co fund करने के लिए. So I'm not working on that. But रेहान is, रेहान is doing multiple things and one of the things that he's doing is creating a content fund, you know, to support these content creators that we will eventually also take on to begin. तो उनका content we have will help in creating the producing the content and then help with in in incentivizing them through the monetization that we make from Begin. And the idea is to create again create like yourself we could you know work on a show that you know will be exclusive on begin for and based on the data that we can provide you of who our
viewers are, our consumers are. Exactly मैं वही कह हूं. It has to work. Yeah. उसका point तब होगा जब हम closely किसी चीज़ के ऊपर काम करके build कर सकते हैं कि sir, how can we actually leverage your data to maximize viewership? Absolutely. That by design helps revenue for you, helps revenue for us. Absolutely. We are open to that. Yeah. And we are in talks with
few people on various formats, ideas and and stuff like that. We have a team in कराची who is only working on this. They are working on comedy. Interesting. You know, to bring back comedy and a lot of people say कि यार comedians है नहीं. आपकी सोच है कितनी comedians हैं. वह उनको platform नहीं मिला. True true bro.
Know, makes sense. And I mean look at Netflix. Netflix couple of years ago just picked up these stand up comedians and now their comedy scene is huge. It's huge. You got to start somewhere, Yeah yeah yeah. वह अभी मैं देखा था like there is a 15 year old kid. उसने पूरा वह अपना comedy show किया लाहौर के अंदर. वह बेचारा hall भी उसने book करवाया. अब sponsor के लिए वह किसी uniform की company के बाद He भी
should be focusing on his work and Exactly, we would like to think that that we are now here and we want to support that kind of ecosystem. And the thing is that we are not here to reinvent the wheel. We are just going to try and do things that have only worked before and and it's not necessary कि यार हम पहला ही करेंगे तो मतलब यार कोई पांच लाख subscriber छते पहाड़कर निकल गए and all of that you know ऐसा नहीं होगा. It's you have to be consistent. Yeah. You know you've got to keep at it. Right. Consistency is the name of game and I've learned this over the years in my career like you know programming maybe meeting a client whatever you have got to be consistent simple.
Makes sense. थोड़ा सा मैं pull back करूंगा आपको conversation से और I want to understand you have a have had an extensive experience in the media space from entertainment to news as well finance as well. इस वक़्त there were in a weird time of media in Pakistan. बार बार हमेशा pitch tech के अंदर आता है जी youth population thirty thirty less than 30 की कितनी है और पता नहीं क्या total addressable market है. But honestly, the way that I see the overall पाकिस्तानी ecosystem is that it's it's it's it's breaking down on every level. Now this is a, this statement might invoke a very negative sentiment for a lot of people because they'll be like, you know what? Everything that we understand is breaking down. But no, if you wanna go and and actually live the sort of utopian life that you imagine तो उसके लिए पुराने system को breakdown होना लाज़मी है. यह एक एक एक logical evolution process है जो कि लोग imagine नहीं करते. लोग कहते हम randomly jump करके निकल जाएंगे और सब अच्छा हो जाएगा but वह हमेशा एक एक एक transition आता और transition means change and change is that uncomfortable. But while we're going through that change जो mainstream आपका media है nobody likes to watch TV anymore. Nobody trusts the news anymore. I don't even have to say why but you know nobody trusts news news anymore. Entertainment majority people are are definitely is a huge market for it. Absolutely. In incredible brands being built out of out of the पाकिस्तानी industry but actual में they are being driven by YouTube more so than than conventional television networks and YouTube was ना दुनिया में नहीं होता यह कि YouTube is your distribution for I mean. It's only in Pakistan. A content creator is competing with हम TV on freaking YouTube. It's only in Pakistan. It's only in Pakistan. Right? And you can very clearly see कि यार अच्छा पूरी industry का thirty-forty percent chunk है वह YouTube लेकर जा रहा है क्योंकि आप इतने dumps दिए गए आपने उसको बेहतर तरीके से manage ही नहीं किया. अब उस aspect के अंदर I am I am trying to understand कि and I want a holistic understanding of the media industry. How do you see? Where do we go from here? Because people are confused. मैं हूं. मैं भी media industry का ignore हूं ना. आप इससे help. Mean the content is you know it's very misleading content as well. It's but content के देखिए मसला यह है ना कि content जब आपने लोगों को छोड़ दिया ना कि भाई तू कर जो तूने करना है. तो वह content अजीब ही होगा. वह फिर वह वह proper formal structures के through आते हैं. Pakistan में हमें कोई जितना है. I do think that it
was good for Shark Tank to come because even वह जो आप the the segment that you're talking about उसमें थोड़ा interest genuine होकर at least
personality build की छोटा सा वह एक segment बनाया कि मैं यह हूं, मैंने यह किया, अब मैं यह कर रहा हूं. Those things actually build the demand. And demands cannot be built by individuals. They can be built by platforms, they can be built by by by much bigger structures.
The other thing is that what have you done with ShakTank? You've created some heroes. Absolutely. With जुनेद और. And even the people who actually appeared and gotten the funding. Exactly, right? Right. Them too. So both the the the hosts and the people who came in and got the funding people जो जो बच्चा बैठा है oh यार वह जो ज़ैनब market में दुकानदार भी उसने भी देखा होगा, ठीक है ना? वह भी सोचता होगा यार क्या बंदे follow कर रहा होगा, story सुना होगा. At least वह interested generate हो गया ना he it got him thinking. So start the conversation, get people thinking.
That's a starting point. Absolutely. So उस context के अंदर जब आप overall पूरे की पूरी industry देखते हैं where does this go from here? क्योंकि आज तो मुझे कुछ समझ नहीं आ रही और मैं तो सच्ची बात है और मैं कुछ समझ नहीं आ रही. हमारे साथ जो India में शुरू हुआ था viral fever, this, that वह सारी सारी 100,000,000 plus की assets वन चुकी हैं क्योंकि उनके पास infrastructure था and people were there to actually take you one step ahead and one step ahead and one step ahead. इस वक़्त ecosystem में आप evolution किस तरह होते हुए देख रहे हैं? Yeah, I
and not because I am doing begin or I am invested in this you know. I do think correction आएगी. ठीक है? I am call me foolish or whatever. Am always over optimistic about it. What does correction mean to you? In the sense कि how content is made, distributed and and consumer को कैसे पहुंचाएगा? And monetize. Monetized, you know, that will come eventually because there are content creators, there are platforms, channels that are now questioning this whole current Stethoscope. Status quo, you know. And यार, you're there are livelihoods that depend on this. So, वह क्या कहते हैं ना when the going gets tough, the tough get going. तो वह वह scenario अब आ चुका है, ठीक है? And because of begin we meet a lot of people you know we we're getting we're talking to a lot of broadcasters, we're talking to a lot of streaming platforms who are saying यार let's partner, let's let's change the game, ठीक है? And the game will be changed with content Meaningful, impactful, good content. जब वह होगा.
Sir मसला यह है ना आपने जो बोले ना words. इन words में तो पैसे ही कोई नहीं है. यही तो problem है. मैं अभी के status quo के बताऊंगा. Exactly हां. कि मेरा so so I am that guy, right? Meaningful, impactful and I am one of the few who has sustained and I have been able to be smart enough to figure out कि इसको मैंने monetize किस तरह से करना है. इधर झुगाड़ लगाओ, उधर झुगाड़ लगाओ, चलते रहो. Downturn को क्योंकि I am an optimist. Yeah. Maybe. Then sir वह but मेरे मैं एक saying आजकल है मैं उसके ऊपर that's my मंत्रा और वह मैं अगर मुझे मौका मिले तो मैं अपने कमरे के इस पर भी लगा दूं. Pessimist sound smart, optimists make money. I like that. तो तो I feel like कि you know while short term के ऊपर हमें गालियां पड़ जाएं, हम लोग कहें बप्पा गला बेवकूफ है. I believe that there is a there is a change coming. Problem उसमें यह है sir थक भी थोड़े से गए हैं. ठीक है? Yeah, I mean I I mean with this you know when
there is and रेहान and I we talk whenever we meet or whatever you know we say to each other look at each other and say what were we thinking? And two minutes later we said यार करना है you know. Right. So you know you have though it's a it's a you know now I understand before the job but mostly even even when I was in a job I was it was stressful revenue you know making the product work getting up there numbers, eyeballs, viewers all of that ठीक है ना. But now I really understand here what it means to go through in a day with a million emotions like a roller coaster ride. Go through that a lot you know. So
हां थक गए but you can't do anything about it. You know? Makes sense, makes sense. So give me the vision of the of the future. You're saying कि भाई disruption आएगी, status quo break होगा. What will it look like? Streaming first.
Not streaming first but streaming alone will not be able to Correct, correct. You will have to partner. You will have to partner with the telcos. You will have to partner with broadcasters. ठीक है? You will synergy आपको create करनी पड़ेगी. Do you see a future of broadcasters in all of this? TV will always be there. There is no You believe so? Yes. I I would like to think so also. Why? Yeah, it's it's there US में भी TV अभी भी है. ठीक है? Traditional TV चलता है. वह थोड़ा सा उसकी profitability कम हो जाएगी तो obviously वह cost भी कम कर देंगे, ठीक है? India में भी चलती है. TV is still there, ठीक है?
इसको अगर मैं थोड़ा सा change करूं. मैं कहता हूं कि एक आपका video on demand है और एक आपकी live programming है और इन दोनों के बाद आता है distribution. Right? So काफ़ी तो हम यह भी देख रहे होते कि हम distribution discuss कर रहे होते हैं. हम actually product नहीं discuss कर रहे होते. जब मैंने इसको थोड़ा सा देखा तो मुझे यह हुआ कि यार पहले मुझे logical था क्या consumer behavior कहता है कि जब मैं अपनी comfort के ऊपर कोई चीज़ को video on demand ले सकता हूं तो मैं क्यों live देखूंगा? Over time I have changed and I do believe कि live programming की अपनी एक बड़ी utility है क्योंकि there's a there's a excitement
to it. But also there's a large segment that cannot afford to watch video streaming, phone की access नहीं है, internet के issues है, ठीक है? The last, ok fine. There is a at least a number the people that I'm going after or the the target market that I'm trying to tap into. They are but there's a huge market and I'm not going after them. But there's so that's where TV is. Right? Right.
The reason why I'm I'm saying that is it's a dumb thought. It's a purely anecdotal वह. I haven't had cable for the last four years. I haven't had cable. Hey, back home? Back home here anywhere. And by the way, I've had both of those times. I think मुझे ना direct मिला था PTCL का internet था. मेरे पास तीन internet लगे हुए थे वैसे मेरा काम धंधा था I had backup backup backup घर के अंदर और तीनों के ऊपर मुझे मिल रही थी यह 200 channels वाली कोई subscription. मुझे needy feel नहीं हुई क्योंकि जितना भी entertainment था वह सारा का सारा YouTube पर था जितना भी news था वह Pakistan में आपका ARY, Jio, देश and that YouTube के ऊपर stream हो रहा होता था. Yeah, वह live stream चलती है. Live stream चलती है. तो actual में जो आपकी जो जो cable थी ना वह बिल्कुल खत्म हो चुकी हुई थी. अच्छा I go to my siblings in The US none of them have cable.
Their TV exists. Yeah. But the way of distribution has changed where they would go to an app. The apps embedded in their device. In the device, right? And so it's app first rather than a cable like a very sort of मुझे बस इसका योग था कि it's very non intuitive experience of I'll not a lot of data tell you इसका इसका होगा क्या? इसका होगा इसमें भी partnership बनेंगी, ठीक है ना? So what will happen eventually is and maybe not the big the big three or big four in Pakistan for that matter but the the lower tier they will keep producing content and they will then work with us. So they will be embedded through our app. Begin पर जाएंगे उसके ऊपर आज चल रहा है आज पर click करेंगे और live stream Exactly, ठीक है ना? And what we will do is. So they will end up becoming content creator rather than distribution networks. Exactly, right? And and so that's how you will see this synergy being created and then things moving forward and then how do they make money? Obviously because of our subscriber base that you know that we provide the numbers are there, the data is there.
We can then monetize them through advertising, subscription whatever. I think जो जो मेरे लिए सबसे exciting बात है ना इस सारे के अंदर वह very honestly वह यह है कि जो जो जो subscription है ना वह actually quality लोगों को यह realize नहीं होता but subscription has a direct impact on quality. Exactly. The reason for that is because if I have to play in the open market so someone like me who reaches out to hardcore SEC AB. मेरी audience अलहम्मद अल्लाह मुझे जब भी कोई बंदा reach out करता है ना तो वह कहते हैं कि वह बड़े उस ऊपर से आते हैं कि subscriber base. मैं कहता हूं कि sir आप जो मेरे पास बंदा है Problem उसमें यह आती है कि market को यह समझाना बाहर हां, advertiser को यह समझाना कि भाई आप targeting के पैसे दे रहे हो, आप पैसे उसके नहीं दे रहे. It's a it's a nightmare. Yeah. Subscription actually allows for कि यार मैंने actually दस हज़ार लोगों को दिखाना है. Absolutely. That for me is the most exciting aspect कि it's it's it's targeted. Yeah. High quality consumer that actually pays you more rather
than कि मैं एक million से चवण्या इकट्ठी करता हूं. Like I said in the beginning, he's paying you for the quality of the content. He is paying you for because it's easily accessible and obviously affordable.
सुमित the one hour twenty minute mark. Jonathan I ask all of my guests one question. पिछले दो साल ही question थोड़ा मुश्किल हो गया था because हालात को patient नज़र guest भी बड़ा धीमे तरीके से respond करता था consumer तो आता था कहता क्या बातें हो रही हैं? मैंने आपको आप लोगों को मेरी एक video है दो हज़ार पच्चीस के बारे में commentary video है जिसे मैंने आपको कहा था कि दो हज़ार पच्चीस is the year when sentiment reverses. I think everything is on track irrespective of कि जो जो खबरें आपको आ रही है कि पता नहीं हो जाएगा वह हो जाएगा. चलता रहता है कोई मसला नहीं है but मैं macro का बंदा हूं. मेरे हिसाब से turnaround of sentiment is is this year. तो मैं तो अब बड़े excited होकर इस सवाल पर वापस आ रहा हूं और इंशालाह मज़ीद आता रहूंगा. But I would love to ask you, you have a, you have a fairly interesting personality in the context of you know, you you are a, you are multicultural in a sense that your mother was an Indian, your father was a पाकिस्तानी, religiously you're from a minority, you've worked extensively in Pakistan, you've worked in The Middle East across multiple different markets. It takes quite a quite a belief system to be someone on your level who has who probably had abilities and opportunities to be wherever, however you wanted but you chose to be in Pakistan continuously. You know long term partnerships. Do you see Pakistan of two thousand and fifty-twenty five years from now knowing what you are now seeing what you've seen all throughout your life and experience?
Again, I mean, I'll go back to the fact that say the fact that I'm overly optimistic. I always have been. And I'll take a step back on this, and I think the reason I feel this way is I may have worked with Zee and Samar and CNBC and and all of that. What Pakistan has given me, I don't think I would have gotten anywhere else. Know, I managed to get to a certain point within ZTV because of what we did for Z TV in Pakistan, you know, and how we created that, you know, created that Opportunity. Opportunity, you know, for for Z. So so I'm I'm incredibly grateful for that, you know. Yes, back and forth चलता है यह मतलब. But जो जो Pakistan ने दिया और कोई भी नहीं दे सकता and this is not cliched. It's not this I genuinely mean. And वह लोग कहते हैं you know minority, Christian I've never it's all in the head. Right. You know if you feel if you feel like your religious status then यह आपके ऊपर है कि you let that hold you back. I've never for me. Either you live like a victim or you live live like a leader. Exactly you know I mean I don't know about leader, you just, yeah, you know, you just, you cannot let that say because if you think about it, that's where you're the first step. You're wrong. You know, you can't you can't you just have to go on. I met phenomenal people, from not just the media industry, from all walks of life who have always appreciated and respected me for who I am and for what I bring to the table and what I do. Not because of my religion or whatever, you know. So that's where I see Pakistan in 2050 booming. Think we're like as you mentioned before I think we're on the upward, we're on the mend now. You know and we are now on the way up. The economy is starting to look up. Yes, things are उनके तैयार security है, पानी की issues हैं, यह वह यह वह तो हर जगह है. Security की issues Chicago में भी है, San Francisco में भी है, living Europe में भी है and have been fortunate to travel enough to and to know that, know. So the grass always seems greener on on the other side. But Pakistan is also very comfortable to live in. ठीक है ना? You're a driver. Olazim है, you know, you can anytime. यहां पर phone करना पड़ता है, plan बना पड़ता है दोस्तों के बाद वहां पर यार phone कर लिया, चलो यार बाहर. Pakistan has those things and there's no taking away from that. So, all said and done, people that I meet from again bankers, investment managers, tech founders, businessmen. It's heartening to see the quality of people and the intellect that is back in Pakistan. I've had I've known Janet for a very long time from my CNBCs, but I've had the pleasure of meeting at least two other sharks. I was, you know, presently surprised that, you know, these and these are people who came back after, you know, the jobs going a while, you know, and and they believe in it. If they it obviously, it it says for a lot people believe it. So I think 2050, we
we will be where we are supposed to be. Makes sense, makes sense. Jonathan thank you so much for taking Appreciate the time out and sharing all that it. And I look forward to where begin goes from here. Download begin. Perfect and for all of you guys thank you so much for watching. अगर आपको यह episode पसंद आई हो तो अपने दोस्तों यानों से ज़रूर share करिएगा. Let me know in the comment section below. Are you using a streaming service? What streaming service are you using? Have you used begin? What has your experience been so far? Regarding Pakistan and the sudden shift in optimism that you're seeing in me and and you'll see in the channel as well. And overall, I believe you'll see in Pakistan as well. Jonathan भाई ने बड़ी अच्छी बात बोली कि, you know not a not a cliche cheesy thing कि यार Pakistan Pakistan है और emotionally उसे वह connectivity है. Maybe you feel disconnected emotionally as well. But सच्ची बात है you know I've I've I've gotten a lot from Pakistan. I've built interesting things in Pakistan. I've gotten अलहम्द अल्लाह, you know success, fame, money. मैं उसके बाद Dubai भी आया और Dubai आकर मैंने I've I've explored opportunities. Pakistan में देखकर इतनी opportunity exist करती है. तो वह opportunity किसी ना किसी ने पूरी करनी करनी है. वह at the end of the day ना there is a logical evolution जो कि होनी ही होनी है. It's really about the fact कि क्या आप उस opportunity को avail कर लेते हैं या you let someone else do it. But, you know, societies grow, countries grow. At the end of the day, someone has to solve problems जो भी exist करते हैं and those problems more often than not now increasingly you will see will become monetizable opportunities for a lot of people and जितने लोग solve करेंगे वो उसके हिसाब से businesses build and scale कर सकते हैं. Nonetheless, यहां पर मैं इस episode को खत्म करता हूं. मेरा नाम सिव्धाम राज्य संजय दी है. You were watching ThoughtBandThings. Thank you so much for watching and I'll see you in the next one.
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