Thought Behind Things · Aug 25, 2021 · 48:36
Why raising a son well is the harder job
Zenab Rauf and Hassaan Tayab — a Faisalabad couple navigating YouTube, a restaurant, and first-time parenting through a COVID lockdown — talk to Muzamil about gender-sensitive parenting, the cultural script that lets boys off the hook, and why the first five years are where the work actually happens.
with Zenab Rauf & Hassaan Tayab
13 min read
A Faisalabad couple, an Islamabad detour, and an unplanned podcast
The episode opens with Muzamil welcoming Zenab Rauf to the studio. She has not travelled to Islamabad for the show specifically — her brother lives in the city and the family rotates weekends — but when the invitation arrived she did not want to miss it. “When you guys invited me, thank you so much,” she tells Muzamil. “I thought that I should tag along, I shouldn’t miss this opportunity at all.”
That detail sets the tone of the conversation. Zenab is warm, direct, and slightly self-deprecating about her own answers — “I was brutally honest,” she says, when asked whether she preferred her O-level school or her A-level one. Muzamil walks her through the early biography quickly: a Faisalabad upbringing, O-levels at Beacon House, A-levels at City School, and then a Bachelor’s in textile design from the Pakistan Institute of Fashion and Designing in Lahore. Her thesis ran three to four months past her batch’s deadline, and she graduated late. Within fifteen days of her thesis display, she was at her own mehndi. The marriage came at the end of 2017.
Lawn, copy culture, and why she did not take a textile job
Before pivoting to YouTube, Muzamil asks Zenab how she reads Pakistan’s fashion industry from the inside. Her answer is more pointed than the conversational set-up suggests. She did internships at two well-known textile firms during university and came away unconvinced. The constraint, she says, is creative: at the big lawn houses, the brief is to make florals and prints inside narrow guardrails, and the room to build a mood board from scratch — the part she actually trained for — barely exists.
She goes further on what she calls Pakistan’s lawn copy culture. A hit collection from one of the established houses gets pulled up on screens at smaller design studios, lightly amended, recoloured, and run out as a different label’s offering. “I was like, I don’t want to do that,” she tells Muzamil. It is one of the reasons she did not take a job after graduation. The YouTube channel filled the gap.
Starting the channel, and a husband who pushed
Zenab started her channel in June 2018, six months after the wedding. She had been a heavy YouTube viewer for years — back when, as she puts it, you “scratched a card to put internet on” — and Michelle Phan was the creator who made her fall in love with the medium. The first video was a vlog titled, with characteristic honesty, “my first awkward vlog.” She edited it on Final Cut Pro, which she had picked up during her design degree. The camera was her phone. She has since moved to a Sony RX100 Mark V for the beach trips and travel cuts.
Her parents’ first reaction was hesitant — “what is this, going out in public like this” — and she dropped the idea until after her marriage, at which point Hassaan, who had watched her live half her waking life on Snapchat, pushed her to try it. “He was like, no, you should do it. Let’s just give it a try, just for fun.” Her in-laws, she says, are openly supportive. “If someone in the family tells them from far away that we watch Zenab, they are very happy.”
The rough cut beats the cinematic cut
Muzamil and Zenab spend a useful few minutes on what works on YouTube and what does not, and the answer in both their experiences is the same. The travel vlogs Zenab and Hassaan have laboured over — Hassaan does the colour grading, both of them think hard about how scenes open and cut — do worse than what she calls “a random vlog, normal day in my life.” Jump cuts. Phone footage. The texture of an actual day.
“The rawness of it always works a lot more,” she says. Muzamil agrees. “The more cinematic you make it, the public is just like, no, yaar — they want to see the actual raw behind-the-scenes of your life.” Both of them note that this is also the content they themselves prefer to watch: the kind they can relate to.
A surprise baby, a one-week lockdown, and no help in the house
The conversation moves to parenting, which becomes its centre of gravity. Aahad — their son — is, as Zenab puts it, “a surprise baby.” Neither of them was planning. When she told Hassaan, he was taken aback enough to ask, “Are we ready?” “I was like, how can you say that?” she remembers. “I am giving you such good news. We have to be ready.” They both came around to excitement before the reality of newborn weeks landed.
Aahad was born roughly a week before Pakistan’s first COVID lockdown. That timing turned what could have been an isolating experience into something Zenab calls “a blessing in disguise.” Hassaan was at home twenty-four-seven for the first stretch. They have no household help. Zenab is matter-of-fact about what that means in practice: “Washing the dishes, washing the feeders, changing the diapers, managing the clothes — literally no help.” The duties divide naturally because both of them are there for all of it.
When Muzamil asks Hassaan in to join the conversation — which he does, slightly reluctantly, after Zenab notes he is camera shy — the second guest opens with one of the better lines of the episode. Describing the moment he first saw his son, Hassaan says, “I am not usually the kind of person who would cry, but automatically my eyes got wet. You wait for one thing for months and you bear everything difficult that comes — and then when you basically see your child, it makes it all worth it.”
He picks up the thread Zenab started about the work. The first weeks were not the hard part. The hard part came when they returned to their own house and the supporting cast of aunties and parents was no longer in the room. “When he was learning to use his hands and his legs, that’s when the difficulty hit. Every exercise has a different muscle — and raising someone, every part of it has a different muscle too.” When he travelled to Sharan forest for three or four days and left a six-month-old Aahad behind for the first overnight separation, he started missing him by the second day. “I came back after three or four days, he was just six months old, and he started crying when he saw me.”
Nazar, baby photos, and the public child
One of the more delicate threads Muzamil pulls runs through nazar — the cultural belief in the evil eye — and what it means for a creator couple to put their child’s face on the internet. Muzamil lays out his own working theory honestly: he believes nazar exists, but he refuses to let it become a reason not to share what is genuinely joyful. “If you live in the fear of nazar, would you do anything in your life? Rather, share what’s joyful, and protect yourself by putting good karma out — give charity, do those kinds of things.”
Zenab took her time with the public side of Aahad. She did not announce her pregnancy publicly until after he was born. The pregnancy vlogs went up retroactively, on her schedule, not the audience’s. After the delivery the channel was active again, with Aahad in frame from early on. Her own concern was less about strangers and more about close-circle disapproval — “they don’t approve, why are you sharing him online” — and her answer was to take the timeline on her own terms.
The fupis, the tayis, and the internet aunties
From there the conversation moves to the broader experience of being told how to raise your child by people who are not raising your child. In a Pakistani family setting, Muzamil notes, the in-person fupis and tayis come with the territory. You can usually nod and move on. The harder ones, he says, are the internet versions: “There are big fupis and tayis sitting on the internet who will sit there morning and evening telling you what to do.”
Hassaan’s rule is unsentimental. “For Aahad, I don’t listen to anyone. Let it be anyone. When it comes to him, I do what I think is right. You should listen to elders — listen to them. But then you do your due diligence. Filter the information yourself. What you think you can apply, apply it. What you can’t, leave it. Listen to everyone, decide yourself.” It is the cleanest formulation of a parenting principle in the episode, and Muzamil lets it sit.
The harder job: raising a gender-sensitive son
The heart of the conversation arrives when Muzamil widens the lens to the country. He frames the moment carefully: Pakistan is in a troubling period on gender-based violence, but also a hopeful one, because for the first time the gravity of those incidents is being collectively understood. “Solutions only ever come when the problem is named,” he says. As parents of a young boy, he tells Hassaan, this is something that takes a lot of mental real estate.
Hassaan’s answer reframes a phrase Pakistani parents say constantly. “We say, one year, two years, three years — he won’t understand anything yet, he’s just a child, let him do this, let him do that. Actually, if you look at the studies, from the first month till five years of life, this is the most important time. Whatever he learns, he learns in this time.” The implication is that the cultural permission slip — boys will be boys, they are small, they do not know — is in fact the moment the wrong lessons get installed.
He is precise about the local texture. Faisalabad, he says, is three to four years behind Lahore, Islamabad, and Karachi on this kind of awareness. “What I have seen around me is — yeah, he’s a boy, he can do this, let him do it.” The culprit, in his framing, is parents who indulge first and try to correct later. “This is basically the time when you can set things right. Later it normalises. It starts to look cool. Appreciate him — boy or girl — but at the same time, you have to be a little strict from the start.”
Zenab takes the question from a different angle. She would, she says, raise a daughter the same way she is raising Aahad — there is no separate playbook. “I never want Aahad, at any point, to feel that he is superior to anyone or that he can get away with certain things just because he is a boy.” Her examples are small and concrete. “If he wants water and his sister is also there, she’s not the one who’s going to bring it. He has to get it himself.” She is also conscious of the wedding-joke reflex Pakistanis aim at toddlers — pairing a little boy with a little girl as “friends” who are really being set up for laughs — and she will not let it happen around her son.
All-boys schools and the missing context
Muzamil adds an observation from his own peer group on how Pakistani boys learn — or fail to learn — to be around women. The boys he watched do best, he says, were the ones who started in co-ed primary schools, spent the middle years in all-boys branches, and then re-entered co-ed environments later. The ones who struggled were the boys who stayed in regressive all-boys settings the whole way through and then got dropped, without context, into co-ed university classrooms. “All the boys are like maniacs on each other,” he says. The deficit is not academic. It is contextual: they were never taught how to be around a different gender as people.
Boys will be boys, and the cost of bottling emotion
The phrase Hassaan and Zenab both return to is the cultural injunction against male feeling. Boys are told they cannot cry. Boys are told they cannot show pain. Muzamil names the consequence directly. “We see men as very aggressive in Pakistan. Part of the reason is that when a child is sensitive, when he’s crying, when he’s feeling any emotion at all, we try to suppress it. So he becomes the psycho case of not knowing when to feel anything — generally, men bottle it up, keep it inside.”
Zenab’s working rule with Aahad is short and worth quoting. “I will tell you one thing. When your child cries, you should never say ‘don’t cry.’ Give him solutions. Ask, what happened? Let me fix this for you. Tell me how you are feeling. Never say don’t cry.” She has stuck to it. Aahad, she says, is comfortable with crying, and he settles himself afterwards. It is a small protocol, but it is the kind of small protocol the rest of the episode argues actually compounds.
The Faisalabad rich kid abroad
A lighter detour, but a sharp one. Hassaan studied at Lahore School of Economics. Muzamil teases him about not doing the standard Faisalabad move and going abroad. Hassaan’s reply is one of the funnier diagnoses in the conversation. The grades-don’t-make-LUMS-or-IBA cohort, he says, has a default escape route: a year abroad on the parents’ tab. “He’s never stepped outside his house. He’s never gone anywhere except with a driver and a guard. He did A-levels, off to abroad — and a year later, he’s booking a return ticket. Oh, I wasn’t home safe.”
His own thinking was different, because he came from a business family and did the maths. “I calculated — I’m spending this much money, and I’m coming back to do what?” His CGPA, he volunteers, was 3.55. He says it the way someone with nothing to prove says it. The principle he carries forward to Aahad is the one his parents extended to him: no force on a career path.
COVID, no honeymoon, and a Dubai plan
The conversation closes on the lighter beats. Aahad is, by the timing, a COVID baby — born a month before the lockdown, raised through the most cautious period any Pakistani family has lived through in recent memory. Zenab and Hassaan were briefly worried it would dent his sociability. It has not. He is running around now, meeting new people, doing what toddlers do.
They have not taken a honeymoon. Hassaan was back at the restaurant the second or third day after the wedding, working the register because they had not yet hired an accountant, learning the hard way that distributors will test a new owner. The trip they want is on hold until Aahad is past the chaos-on-legs phase. Dubai, they note, opened to Pakistanis on the 7th of August. It is the obvious candidate.
Muzamil closes the conversation around the fifty-five-minute mark by thanking them for coming up from Faisalabad, and by noting something the episode has earned. “Honestly, you guys are the first guests I have spoken to as parent to parent.” The conversation has, on balance, been about one argument: the way Pakistan raises its boys is the upstream cause of a lot of what Pakistan now has to fix downstream. Zenab and Hassaan are not making a policy claim. They are describing the version of fatherhood and motherhood they are trying to model in their own house, in real time, with no help and a toddler who is watching everything.
Full transcript
मैंने घपति नादराज, episode of Third Banding. Thanks. आज मौजूद है बहुत ही ख़ास.
Thank you so much for inviting me.
I heard कि आप, इस्लाम बाप को वैसे ही चक्कर नहीं लग रहा था. आप podcast के लिए हैं specially? मैं भाई रहता है मेरा यहाँ पे. अच्छा. तो हमारा alternative weekend पर चक्कर लगता रहता है. So my husband was coming. So when you guys invited me, thank you so much. So I thought that I should tag along and. Come on, come on. I shouldn't miss this opportunity at all. Yes, चलिए मुझे पहले तो यह बताएं कि you know I will start off with the early life just to set sort of get an understanding. आप पूरी ज़िंदगी फैसलाबाद में you know you grew up? Yes, All in brought up in फैसलाबाद. High school आपने कहां से किया था? मैंने O levels किया था Beacon House से, then A levels के लिए city school. Beacon क्यों जोड़ दिया? I mean Beacon है, सच a legacy. How do do it?
जो teachers थे, well known थे, जो पता था कि उन्होंने अच्छा पढ़ा देंगे और सारा शुरू से like मेरे भाई की time चलते आ रहे थे. उन्होंने shift कर लिया school. Right. And they convinced me कि मैं भी उनके साथ चल ही जाऊ. तो did you like city school better? No.
अच्छा नहीं. मैं was brutally honest and then after city school you went to लाहौर, right? Yeah. So where was that? PIFT, Pakistan Institute of Fashion and Designing. अच्छा, how was that?
अच्छा था. मेरा last year जो था बहुत tough था. I had a really tough time during my thesis. कुछ issues की वजह से मेरा thesis delay भी हुआ था. मैंने three four months के बाद graduate किया था. मेरे batch के मतलब बिल्कुल साथ नहीं किया था. कुछ group था बच्चों का जिन्होंने बाद में किया था. So I was one of them. और आपकी degree क्या थी? Bachelor's in textile design. And your family is from textile as well? Not my family but मेरे husband की है. अच्छा अच्छा. Bigh ground effect है. ज़बरदस्त. So and then you move back to you know फैसलाबाद immediately afterwards या did you work somewhere? नहीं, immediately afterwards because I got married right after. अच्छा. मेरी थी sir display के literally fifteen days बाद मेरी मेहंदी थी, निकावल मेहंदी थी. Really? So,
that was back 2019 I believe. 2017.
End of 2017.
अच्छा. And, you know, so you didn't work in between any of that? नहीं. University life में I did internships. कहां पर? मरीज़े में और निशात में. What was that like? It was very good. अच्छा. How do you see Pakistan's fashion industry? Am sorry मैं थोड़ा सा यह आगे वाला सवाल है लेकिन I am just very curious. नहीं, नहीं, नहीं.
Its evolving. अच्छा. But थोड़ा सा अगर main stream fashion को देखें like जैसे अगर आप lawn type की बात कर लेते हैं because वो fast fashion है, change हो रहा है. So, वो that I don't really agree with because मैंने कम जब मैंने internship का experiences थे वो मुझे लगता है कि जब आप job करते हैं ऐसी किसी firm में जहां पर आपको सिर्फ prints बनाने हैं. Right. तो वहां पर थोड़ी restriction आ जाती है. Creativity के लिए इतना scope नहीं है. अच्छा. Because all they want to do it want you to do is like make florals. Right. तो scratch से जो creativity आपको जो मिलती है ना कि like come, like come up with the mood board and you know just go while जो भी करो. Yeah. Necessary वह ज़रूरी होना चाहिए. तो वह थोड़ी सी stick करती है which is also why I didn't go for job right after my graduation. Right. Do you think lawn जो है उसका छोटे like I don't see a lot of small and medium enterprises getting into that. Is it a very expensive endeavor to do lawn? क्योंकि अब इतने options आ गए हैं. I think कि इसीलिए वजह क्योंकि हर कोई lawn कर रहा अब तो designer lawn भी इतनी आ गई है. Like designers भी कर रहे हैं. Exclusive collections आती हैं you know and then sold out.
तो may be that's why. नहीं madam, my my essentially my question is कि या तो आपके पास यह बड़े बड़े you know सनासा सफ़ीनास and all of these are doing lawn.
But basically वो ज़्यादा ज़्यादा fast वो करते है but simple words मैं आपको बताती हूँ क्या करते है like एक कोई collection hit हो गया for example ऐलान के सनक सनक सफ़ीनाथ की ठीक है. ठीक है. तो designers बैठेंगे. Site पर वो रखेंगे and then they will make a copy of it. Like थोड़ी सी amendments करेंगे तो क्या आप pick नहीं कर सकोगे because यह मैंने खुद होते देखा ही ना उसको मैं I was like I don't want to do that. Right. तो यही करते हैं कि वो amendments करके कि इस पूर को ऐसे कर दो, color change कर दो क्योंकि सारे अगर आप overall देखे
right. चलिए, so I will come back to your YouTube side of things. When did you start YouTube?
Right after I got married. Like I got married in December 2017 और 2018 में June में मैंने YouTube start किया था. और उसके पीछे क्या thought थी? मुझे हमेशा से YouTube का बहुत शौक था. I loved watching videos. Right. Like उस ज़माने से वह card scratch करके अब डाल के internet लगाते हैं. So I used to do that और मैं YouTube देखती थी, videos देखती थी बहुत ज़्यादा. किस, generally who, who did follow at the time? I loved Michelle Fon. यह मैंने अपने platform पर बहुत दफा share किया था. She is the reason that I fell in love with YouTube. Right. Currently उन्होंने YouTube, he is not doing YouTube but she has her own makeup line, M cosmetics के नाम से. Right. So she was the reason that I fell in love with YouTube और फिर ऐसा ऐसा मैंने discover शुरू कर, discover करना शुरू कर दिया कि vlogs भी होते हैं और कुछ और भी content होता है क्योंकि at that time मुझे नहीं पता था कि क्या है. क्या अब youtuber भी कुछ हो के नहीं है. तब मुझे नहीं पता था कि she was a big deal in the industry at that time. मुझे तो बस एक randomly video नज़र आई है and then I fell in love with her. Right. तो ऐसा ऐसा पता लगा तो हमेशा से करना चाहती थी then even I thought कि जब मैं शादी मेरी होगी तो मैं उससे YouTube start करूंगी कि क्या क्या गुज़रता है ना? धोलन तैयारियां कर रही है सारा. But नहीं हो सका और वो initially reaction होता ना आपके parents का कि क्या यह क्या है? Public में जाकर इस तरह यह. मामा को तो नहीं पता था ना कि क्या है? तो initially her reaction was like क्या? मना भी नहीं किया है लेकिन उन्होंने कहा क्या? तो फिर मैंने I dropped the idea then I got married. Then हसान obviously knew that how crazy. Yeah. मैं twenty four seven Snapchat पर होती थी. तो मैं एक YouTube पर बनी हुई थी Snapchat क्यों? बता रही हूँ कि मैं अब यह कर रही हूँ, मैं यह कर रही हूँ, मैं यहां जा रही हूँ. Then he pushed me. Was like no, you should do it. Lets just give it a try और ऐसे ही fun के लिए कर लो. तो. Actually that was gonna be my next question. What was your husband and your in laws opinion about you doing that? So, husband is the one who essentially put Yes. You on My in laws are very supportive. वह तो बहुत खुश होते हैं. Like, कोई family में दूर से बताता है कि हम जैनब को देखते हैं, मेरी like her और यह सब तो वह बहुत खुश होते हैं. अच्छा, over this.
जब आपने start किया था what was the first video that you made? It was a vlog. अच्छा. It was titled my first awkward vlog. अच्छा.
Normal day था we went out for lunch with my cousins. Then उस time हमारा restaurant भी open था. Then I dropped by there हसान को कुछ देने के लिए. So, वो बड़ा
regular हाँ regular साथ यह था. And आपने उसको edit अपने phone पे ही किया था या किस तरह से? नहीं, मैंने
क्योंकि मेरी background की वजह से, studies background की वजह से तो I knew how to use office. मैंने पहला editing final cut pro भी किया था. आता इतना अच्छा नहीं था. अच्छा. Basics आते थे but मुझे use करना आता था और तो मैंने final cut pro भी किया था. And what camera were you using at the time? वह phone. I was using my phone. And you still use your phone? No. अच्छा. कर लेती हूं beach में. I have Sony RX 100 mark five It's
a compact camera. Right. वह तो है ही. मेरा ख़ाली vlogging camera ही है essentially. Right? And then now you primarily do vlogs? Yeah. Have you tried, have you thought about exploring some other areas as well? Yes, I did.
अभी because I am taking a break currently. So I plan कि जब मैं वापस आऊँगी I really want to experiment. दो more kind of vlogs like travel vlogs भी किए हैं but let me tell you के शायद मेरी audience ऐसी है जिस अगर मैंने जो भी अभी travel vlogs किए हैं, uploaded किए हैं मैं और जब editing पर भी उसमें बहुत ज़्यादा हम focus करते हैं. हसान really helps me. Right. He all the color grading and everything because उसका मुझे इतना नहीं पता तो वो करते हैं. तो जिसमें हमने सबसे ज़्यादा और full सोच के क्या होता ना यहाँ से scene आ रहा है, start हमने ऐसे करना है और यह वो. वो vlog इतना successful नहीं जाता जितना बिल्कुल एक random vlog जाता है. Like normal day in my life. Vlog में like the rawness of it always works a lot more. Like
jump cuts डले हुए है बिल्कुल random हुए है. I feel like के ये मेरे भी experience भी यही है कि जितना cinematic आप ज़्यादा करते है public is just like यार नहीं, you know they want to see the actual raw behind the scenes of your life. और मुझे भी वैसे ही content पसंद है मतलब जिसके साथ मैं relate कर सकूं. हाँ, that makes a lot of sense. अभी आपने की छोड़ दिया? Because
अपने baby की वजह से. Right. Pregnancy में भी मैंने break ले ली थी but मैंने वो pregnancy journey block करती रही थी. Initially तब post नहीं की थी I was like कि मेरी delivery के बाद मैं post कर दूंगी तो मेरी delivery के बाद थोड़ा मेरा channel जो है काफी active रहा था और मैं regular vlogs upload करी थी क्योंकि मैंने अपनी सारी journey vlog की हुई थी. Right. Then उसके बाद अब baby के साथ बहुत मुश्किल हो जाता है और हम दोनों manage करते हैं. We have no hard help. Right. We do everything by ourselves like बर्तन धोने से लेकर, feeder धोने से लेकर, diaper niche करने से लेकर, कपड़े manage करना like literally no help. So, बहुत tough मुश्किल हो जाता है and I really don't want to compromise. अभी मेरी priorities जो है वह मेरा बेटा है. Right, makes sense. कब तक आपके ख्याल में आपको लगता कि you you might just come back? I already have vlog edited and ready to upload. But I am waiting कि मैं थोड़ा सा और content करके रखूं. I have this intro. I want to make a new one. उस intro में सिर्फ मैं हूँ. So I want to cooperate हसान and आहत आहत मेरे बेटे का नाम है. So I want to incorporate them as well and then एक दफाई दफा वापस आऊँगी तो I want to be back for real. I don't take any breaks because मुझे सबसे ज़्यादा जो I love कि how people can relate to you और literally आपको DM में गुस्सा कर रहे होते हैं कि आप कहां गाए हुए हैं? और अब आप क्यों नहीं block कर रही हैं? तो अब मैं यह नहीं चाहती कि वह ऐसे मुझे you know मैं अपने fans को या अपने followers को let down नहीं करना चाहती
months old. जी. और your, your, your guys were obviously first time parents. Did you, did you know what you were getting into?
No, not really. Because हम उसे कहते हैं आदि is like a surprise baby. Right. We weren't planning. Right. तो वह हमारे लिए थोड़ा सा वह था कि यह क्या हो रहा है हमारे साथ? Right. और जब initially when I told हसान तो obviously थोड़ा सा was a bit taken back and थोड़ा emotional and then he asked me कि जन्म are we ready? Yeah. And I was like कि ऐसे कैसे कह सकते हो? We have to be ready. हाँ, मतलब कि मैं आपको इतनी अच्छी news सुना रही हूँ और आप वो सारा होने के बाद इनमुझसे यह पूछे are we ready? मतलब यह this not something जो कि हम वापस ले लेंगे चलो ठीक है ऐसा नहीं हो सकता. Right. So, यार हम excited थे बहुत ज़्यादा. But बाद में पता लगा. हां, मतलब जब क्योंकि you know like for us we were considerably
ready seemingly but until you have the child you take it never ready, right? Like so और specially जो last three months होते हैं उसने अपने साथ सारी हर university setup कर रहा होता है, सारा कुछ कर रहा होता तो अपने हिसाब से seemingly बड़ा mind बना चुका होता कि ठीक है now I am going in that parent mode. But I feel like जो and like you said I really like that you know you both of you guys are distributing the effort आप लोग जो है वह दोनों मिलकर काम कर रहे हैं. पहले तुम्हें थोड़ा सा यह बताएं कि how how is that going because हमारी society में यह भी बड़ा problem
आहत के पैदा होने के फरम बाती like within a week lockdown हो गया था. अच्छा. तो मेरे लिए वह it was a blessing in disguise because आसान was at home twenty four seven. Right. तो वह जो हमने साथ में time मिल गया, हर चीज़ experience करने का और easily हमसे हर चीज़ हमने काम और जो duties थी या जो भी responsibility थी वो easily divide होगी हमारे से क्योंकि हिसान was at home. Right. क्योंकि हिसान. Does he appear on your vlogs
हिसान? Yeah. All the time. Can we call him in? I'd like to have him to have a conversation. Is very camera shy. Let's see how, how can I manage that?
One of the reasons I am following is because of मुस्तान by the way. Really? Yeah.
थे हम? जी. मैं आपको यह camera भाई पहुंच सकते थे किसी के लिए. Sorry guys हम थोड़ा सा एक break ली थी हमने ताकि हम आसान को भी integrate कर सकें जैसा कि आप camera भी देख सकते हैं. आसान भाई thank you so much for joining us. Please don't mind. आप बाहर ही बैठे हुए थे तो मैंने सोचा कि, you this could be a great opportunity. We were actually having a conversation about, know, kids in general and then your kid in particular. And then I was telling me कि you had, मतलब आपने बहुत ज़्यादा participate किया था, you know, when he was born. Yeah. Run me through a little bit, you know, what was the first feeling when you saw him for the first time?
Like, you can't explain it in words. Right. और मैं वैसे भी words से इतना अच्छा नहीं. Right. It was out of this world basically. जब मैंने you know, you have heard so many times from people जिनके बच्चे हैं already किया यार आप, you know, ऐसा feel करोगे. बाकी the feeling is that you can't describe it. Right. And like मेरे मैं ऐसे इतना usually ऐसे इंसान नहीं हूं कि मैं रोप पडूं या इस तरह but automatically मेरी आंख की गिली हो गई and when I saw him for the first time आप wait कर रहे थे एक चीज़ का from past months और सब कुछ जो भी मुश्किल आती है आप वह सह रहे थे मगर end में when you
basically see your child. Yeah. तो It makes it all worth it. Yeah, it does. And then what were the first few weeks like because I remember like the first few, I mean actually to be honest the first couple of weeks were not that bad for us. अच्छा.
सो रहा होता था हां, मगर उस पर इतना time लगता था और मैं तो तब late होता था. पहले मैंने बड़ा relax किया. Aunty और वगैरह सबने बढ़िया effort putting की but जब हम फिर after अमन था हम अपने घर वापस आए. Right. Like उसके बाद मुझे यह सांस होकर इतना मुश्किल है. Parents की सही याद होगा याद खेला था. सही है सांस हुआ basically उनका वह जो बातें करते थे हमें जो भी कहते थे वह बिल्कुल correct हैं और तब ऐसा हुआ कि यार वाकई एक you know to raise someone. Yeah. It's hell of a difficult job. Yeah. तो मेरे लोग कमर टांगे वगैरह जो भी जितना gym कर लो, जो मर्ज़ी कर लो, कहते हैं ना हर exercise का different muscle होता है. हां. तो उस exercise का लाला लाला करने का यार हर चीज़ का है there is a different muscle. Yes. तो वह थोड़ी फिर बाद आपका ना आपको सांस होता कि यार अच्छा अभी जैसे for जब वह पांच छह महीने का था तब कितना होगा वह five six? Seven KG, seven. Seven eight KGs का ना वह नहीं इतना issue करता. जब ice था ice था जब उसको अपने हाथों पर, अपने टांगों पर उसे आएगी, उससे पता लगेगा मैंने use कैसे करना है तब आपका और वह मुश्किल करता है काम.
Yeah.
Basically मेरी मामा उधर है तो he is like very. कितने देर आप अब आप कर लेते हैं without the baby?
Like you've been getting better. इतिफा हुआ है ऐसा कि हमने हमें लोहौर emergency थी जाना पड़ा था जिसकी वजह से हमने उसे छोड़ा था. Oh, मतलब रात के लिए? रात के लिए. दिन. मतलब आज तक वैसे ऐसे नहीं हुआ कि मतलब रात उसको हमारे पास होना पड़े. Like, only once. हमें उसे छोड़ो भी मजबूरी थी. हां. तो we had to. Heart break हुआ था? हां, हुआ था क्योंकि अच्छा मैं ऐसा हुआ था कि but ज़ेनाबू उसके पास थी. मैं शारान forest गया था. Right. For three four days. अब अब तब वह six months का था. ठीक है? और मैं I am really sorry. तो अब मैं गया हूं like second day I started missing him. अच्छा. ठीक है और मैं miss कर रहा था क्या कि कुछ करने कोई नहीं है. हां. Like रात को इतना easily नींद आ रही है और यह वह सारा तो I was like missing. अच्छा मैं गया हूं वापस आया after three or four days and he was like just six months and he started crying. अच्छा. हां और वह इतना मुझे देख के रोया है और वह इतनी मुझे हक करके रखी है उसने. मतलब कि you know it is tough but at the end of the day it's worth it. Yeah 100%.
मुझे यह बताएं कि and I am going to go back to Xenab on this one. आपने जो अपनी YouTubing की you know उसके अंदर did you stop your YouTubing immediately after, you know, your baby was born?
Kind of. Like already told you कि मैंने अपने vlogs lined up किए हुए थे. तो फ़ौरन मैंने वो upload किए. उसके बाद भी मैंने आहत के साथ भी काफी content upload किया. But then वो यही था कि month में एक दफा जा रहा है या two months में एक दफा एक blog हो रहा है. तो वो फिर बहुत ही मुझे लग रहा था कि मैं बस अपना 100% नहीं दे पा रही हूँ. बस for वैसे कि मुझे upload करना है तो मैं upload कर रही हूं. तो अब five months हो गए हैं. अभी मैंने कुछ अपने channel पर upload नहीं किया. नहीं क्या? कुछ भी five months हो गए. Question primary मेरा और यह आप दोनों से ही है. You know because again when we had a baby बहुत
कम लोग थे Pakistan में जिन्होंने publicly, you know, कोई photo डाली हुई थी या कोई video डाली हुई थी. And for me, obviously the way that I I understand there is a huge concept of नज़र in Pakistan and you know, people even when we used to put anything up, be like, you know, oh my god नज़र, वो सारा है. I do believe in नज़र. But मेरा मानना थोड़ा सा इस तरह से होता है कि नज़र is not something restrictive. क्या आप नज़र के डर में आप ज़िंदगी में कुछ कर रहे भी ना? Exactly. But rather आप ऐसा करो कि आप जो चीज़ आपकी life में अगर खुशी की चीज़ हो रही है तो आप वह लोगों से share करो और नज़र से बचने के लिए आप उसमें good karma like you know put out करो कि charity कर लो आप उस तरह की चीज़ कर लो. So when you guys started you know putting his face online या you know in public space what was the thought process and did you get to hear this from people around you कि you know अपने बच्चे को क्योंकि मिला लो because I know this is a very transitionary time. चार पांच साल बाद आप जैसे हम जैसे लोग होंगे eventually normalize हो जाएगा कि ठीक है it's perfectly fine. I mean बच्चा है, इंसान है, you know public space है क्या इतनी big deal है? But what was that experience like?
यह basically इसको ज़ेने में ज़्यादा बेहतर answer कर सकती है क्योंकि इसका basically वह decision था. Right. थोड़ा सा मायक करीब. हां, sorry मुझे कोई issue नहीं था.
Approve नहीं करते हैं. Right. कि आप क्यों online share करियो. So जब आहत था तो मुझे पता था कि I going to take my time. मतलब मैंने अपनी pregnancy जो है वो आहत के पैदा होने के बाद announce की थी. Right. वह उसमें I took my time. Initially was planning कि मैं third semester मतलब third trimester में कर दूंगी. But फिर मैंने अपना time लिया और फिर जब आहत मेरी delivery के बाद मैंने announce किया था कि मैं pregnant हूँ थी और फिर मैंने सारे अपने vlogs upload करना शुरू
और जहां नज़र है वहां लाभ ही भी तो यह कीन है. बिल्कुल 100% I think थोड़ा सा ना इसमें यह भी है कि I feel like और मैं इसको थोड़ा सा flip करता हूं. Did you guys hair तक क्या रखो सड़ा बनाने के लिए?
पता नहीं यह करो for the like the amount of trash that we have to wear on a daily basis. I am sorry but कुछ दिन में फुपियां ताइयां तो चलो तो आप बंदा कहते हो ना ठीक है लेकिन internet भी बड़ी फुपियां ताइयां बैठी नहीं जो कि आपको सुबह शाम बैठ के बताएंगी कि यार but चलो हमने sadist ना करना है और आप उसको
did you deal with that? Because to be honest sometimes it gets really complicated. Because obviously, you know, there are people जिनको आप बहुत respect करते हैं, बड़े होते हैं. वह आते वह आकर आपको बता देते कि बेटा यह करना, यह चीज़ करना ज़रूरी है, वह चीज़ करना ज़रूरी है. And then certain times obviously आप कहते हैं ठीक है, sir मैं कर लूंगा. Exactly. Certain times वह कहते हैं करो जितना again, शहर चढ़ाओ.
You know, every doctor in the world will tell you that is not like the child's system is not ready. Ready, ready. You know, but वह so करेंगे. तो how do you, how did you guys deal with that? मेरा मेरा basically एक है कि for आहत मैं किसी के नहीं सुनता. अच्छा. मतलब let it be anyone. ठीक है ना? When it comes to him तो मैं मतलब जहां पर मुझे अड़ना कह लो या जो भी कह लो I do that. ठीक है ना? अगर वह मुझे सही नहीं लग रहा तो मैं वह नहीं करूंगा. ठीक है और हां आपको क्योंकि बड़े होते हैं और obviously आपकी उनको उनको सुनना चाहिए. पर आप उनको सुनो. Right. ठीक है ना? But आप करो. अपनी due diligence ज़रूरी Exactly. वैसे अपने से हम filter out कर दीजिए information जो कि हमें हम सोच सकते हैं कि हम इसको apply कर लें और जो कि नहीं है. मतलब करो, सब सुनो secure करो अपनी. वह हमारा. Makes lot of sense. आजकल obviously because there is a, there is a, you know, a troubling time in Pakistan unfortunately and I
feel like there's a there's a shift in the society. It's troubling as well as hopeful in a sense that, you know, there's a lot of gender issues. There's a lot of gender based violence and hopeful पर शायद लोग कहेंगे confuse हों. Hopeful मेरा मतलब इस वजह से है because for the first time, it's not that these incidents are increasing but rather for the first time we're understanding the gravity of these incidents. And as we are understanding the gravity of these incidents, solution हमेशा तभी इंसान निकालता जब मसले का या problem का idea हो. बिल्कुल. Obviously, as parents of a young boy, हमारा भी यही है कि this is something that takes a lot of our mental recall these days. You know, growing up, especially boys जो है ना, जो fathers हैं. Mhmm. And I'm gonna come to you as well on how you'd like to raise your child differently, knowing what you know now about the society. But as boys, to be honest, I mean, growing up we saw other boys we saw कि किस किस किस सबके लड़के होते हैं. Exactly. A lot of times जो जो मैं मैं हमेशा demarket करता हूं good men and and bad men में, right? Recently यह भी आ रहा है not all men वाला situation आ रही है and उसके ऊपर you know मेरा उसमें simple सा opinion था I gave that on my Instagram as well कि you know it the girls are saying all men not because all men are harassers but because there there are the bad men who are harassers and there are the good men who aren't doing enough to stop it at the end of the day. And growing up growing up मुझे याद है कि मैं जिस जैसे घर से आया था, बड़ी upbringing हमारी अच्छी थी, सारा कुछ था लेकिन society ना आपको constantly push करती रहती है, करती रहती है. वह boys boys boys will be boys वाली चीज़ें होती है. So, we know what that's like. How do you think as a father you would hope to raise your child differently?
Like, मेरे लिए तो it's like कि हमें हमें usually क्या होता है हमारी society के अंदर कि हम कहते हैं एक साल, दो साल, तीन साल तक तो ऐसा कुछ समझ ही नहीं आ रही. यह तो बच्चा है. ठीक है ना? इसके इसके pain में कुछ जा नहीं रहा है. तो rather यह लड़का ऐसे करने दो, यह फलाना है ऐसे करने दो. असल में if you look at the studies तो basically this is the most from first month till five years of his life. This is the most important time of his life because जो भी वह सीखेगा वह इसी time के अंदर वह सीखेगा. अगर आप अभी से ही उसको यह करने को करने लग जाओगे कि वह लड़का है और usually यही होता है. हां. मसला बाद वाली जीत में तो he is like कि यार यह एक एक बात है मेरा. हां, यही मुझे मना भी कर सकते हैं. हां. तो but you have to teach him कि यह emotion भी है. हां. And this is life. Some things we have to accept जाते हैं. I know मगर इस इस basis की वजह से हम लड़कों को ज़्यादा एक ना सर पर उठाकर बिठा दिया है basically. Right. और basically जिस अब basically जब थोड़े जो metropolitan cities हैं, जो बड़े cities हैं लाहौर हो गया, इस्लाम, अद्तराची हो गया. इसमें यह हम अब like the city we are living in फैसलाबाद. उससे मैं कहता कि तीन चार पांच साल आगे हैं. Right. ठीक है? अब इन फैसलाबाद हमने जो मैंने जो अपने इत्दिक देखा वह यही देखा कि जी यह लड़का यह कर सकता है. ठीक है यह हो रहा है यह करने दो या जैसे आपने बताया हर जगह यह होता है but यह parents की बहुत बड़ा इसमें you know हाथ है और basically culprit मैं तो कहूंगा वही है. क्योंकि मैंने तो ऐसा ही देखा है बचपन
Right.
तो जब आप वह देखते हो ना और वह जी फलाना Normalize हो जाता ना? Normalize हो जाता और वह cool लगने लग जाता है एक certain point के time कि वह cool लगने लग जाता है. हां. तो I guess यह मेरा ख्याल है यह parents की number one duty है rather than यह सर पर चढ़ाने की जो उसकी अच्छी बात है you should appreciate him. Right. Your boy or girl. ठीक है? But at the same time आपको यह थोड़ा सा strict होना पड़ेगा और यह start से strict होना पड़ेगा. हम यह part भूल जाते कि यार पहले तो छोट छोटा नहीं नहीं इसे क्या समझ आ रही है? हां. This is basically the time जब आप चीज़ें सही कर सकते हो. Yeah. Do you think there is, there is a certain element of a lot of, a lot of these boys are coming from all boys. जहां
पर उनको लड़कियों के साथ deal करना सिखाया ही नहीं जाता. Exactly. Like I feel like कि मेरे experience में जो वह बच्चे थे ना जो कि primary में co education में गए थे फिर वह चलो boys branch चले गए और फिर eventually यह रब्ज़े में वापस आए. They fared better than the kids जो कि बचपन से consistently आपने जो है उनको दबा के रखा एक regressive किस्म के all boys में. Exactly. फिर आपने डाल दिया मैंने कहा ज़रूर जाओ जी co education. Exactly. अब उस लड़के सारे एक दूसरे ऊपर ऐसे मेनिया चल रहा है. Exactly. And so he doesn't have that context कि, you know, how do you sort of be around a different gender and उस तरह का? बिल्कुल. What do you think, सैनब? How would you raise a boy differently knowing what you know today?
मुझे लगता है अगर मेरी बेटी होती तो भी मैं उसको बिल्कुल ऐसे ही करती जैसे मैं आहत को भी अपना best दे रही हूं और कर रही हूं. I want him to be gender sensitive. Right. हमारे society में जैसे आसानी का एक बहुत यह normal चीज़ मतलब ऐसे दिखा देते हैं कि अब लड़का है तो करने दो. ठीक है? और मैं कभी नहीं चाहती कि आहत को किसी भी point पर यह लगे कि वह किसी से superior हैं या he can get away with certain things just because he is a boy. Right. मतलब अगर पानी लेना है तो अगर उसकी बहन भी है तो उसने ही नहीं लाकर देना. उसको खुद लेना है. Good point. तो वह यह मेरे दिमाग में बहुत ज़्यादा है क्योंकि इर्दिगित मैं बहुत देखती हूं. ठीक है? फिर मैं बहुत conscious हूं अभी से कि आहत के इर्दिगित कोई भी marriage jokes ना हो. Right. ठीक है? उसको अभी से भी कोई ऐसा मजाक नहीं किया जाए जिसमें कि एक लड़की को वह किया जा रहा है like कि जितना कि आप लड़कियों से ही छेड़ते हो. मैंने देखा है इतने छोटे बच्चे को भी छेड़ते नहीं रहती है समाय लोग हैं. क्यों आपकी friend है आप उससे वह आपकी friend वन रही आपने बड़ों just make sure कि हमारा connection जो है वह best edit best रहे उसके सामने so that जब वह बड़ा हो और वह I know बहुत दूर की सोच रही it's kind of silly बड़ा actually. No, you have to right? I feel like that's that's the smart thing कि पहले parents नहीं सोचते थे भले
emotions?
Yeah I think, I am. अच्छा. So अब basically क्या होता है you know in, in our culture कह लें, in our society कह लें, you know men को या boys को एक sort of यह against जाता है हमारे, let's यह weak side है कि हमें बहुत अलग अलग कह जाता कि यह लड़का है, he can't cry. Yeah. ठीक है? यह लड़का है, यह यह छोट लगी तो यह यह क्या हो गया? वह बहुत कम हैं इस ratio में जो कि K2 के base camp recently गई हैं खत्म. उसके अलावा इस तरह की मैं let's say कोई भी मसाल लेना वह बहुत कम हैं ratio में comparatively to boys. हालांकि अगर आप बाकी all of the world देखें तो women are toe to do with men. Absolutely. ठीक है ना? अभी recently Olympics हुए हैं. Like उसमें in shooting in वह कुछ women better than men. Right. So basically मेरे ख्याल है culture में तो था ही हमारे तो था ही एक बहुत देर से चलता आ रहा है. चलता आ है.
Think the the what I was trying to get at also was the fact that we do see men as very aggressive in Pakistan. Right? And part of the regression is because हम बच्चे का sensitive हो जाए, रो रहा मतलब honestly कोई भी emotion वह feel कर रहा हो ना तो उसको आप दबाने की कोशिश करते हैं. Exactly. And so he becomes the psycho case of not knowing when to जिसकी वजह से हमारे जो मर्द हैं generally वह दबा के रखते हैं. अंदर ही रखते हैं. आप कभी notice करें
say कि जब आपका बच्चा रोता है आपने कभी नहीं कहना है कि रो मत, don't cry. Right. उसको solutions दें कि क्या हुआ? Let me fix this for you. I can fix this for you. Tell me how you are feeling. Never say that don't cry. Right. It's not ok. Just want to. Want हाँ he will working with that. तो मैं उसको चाहती हूँ कि वो कभी नहीं मैंने उससे कहा कि रो मत. जिसकी वजह से अब he is like very वो ok with crying. Right. And he cries and then वो खुद ही ठीक हो जाता है. अच्छा. Did you, where did you graduate from हसान? लोहौर School of Economics. अच्छा. तो आप दोनों लोहौर में ही थे अपनी graduation. You didn't go abroad? That's like the फ़ैसलाबादी, ultimate फ़ैसलाबादी link to do. It is. उसकी मैं एक reason बताऊं. उसकी एक reason यह है कि
क्या होता है कि जितने भी हमारे rich kids हैं और फ़ैसलाबाद. Rich kids, oh my god. Why are you using this term? It's a, it's a thing. It's a legitimate thing. हां. वह क्या होता है कि अब वह grades ही नहीं रहा पाए. Right. ठीक है? अब क्या करना है? ना आपको lumps, LAC, IBA, ना fast. कोई आपको लेगा नहीं. मैं business side की बात कर रहा हूं. ठीक है? तो ultimately आप क्या करते हो कि आप you know. ऐसा लगाते हो बाहर. आप बाहर चले जाते और वहां से graduate होकर आ जाते हो और मैंने इतने cases हैं जिसमें इस इतना देखा है कि लोग rather than अभी उसने अपने घर से कभी बाहर कदम नहीं रखा. हां. ठीक है ना? तो कभी driver guard के अलावा कहीं गया नहीं है. ठीक है ना लड़का? और वह बस A levels किया चलो जिबाए चले गए. हां. और ऐसा होता एक साल बाद रोके वापस आ रहे होते हैं. Oh नहीं I was home safe. समझ गया. Get it but थोड़ा आपको पहले experience तो ले लो उस चीज़ का. हां. Then आप masters के लिए job यह perspective है. मैं मतलब different हो सकता but I think कि इस वजह से यह मैंने, मैंने भी ऐसे ही सोचा था शुरू में. Right. कि मैं you know करूंगा मगर मेरा यह था कि मेरा mindset एक क्योंकि मैं business family से ही आता हूं. तो मेरा एक business mindset था कि यार मैं देखो, मैंने जाना है बाहर. बाहर जाकर मैंने यह event calculate किया मैंने यह इतने इतने पैसे लगाने हैं. Right. ठीक है ना? और आकर मैंने क्या करना है? इसलिए और मैं शुरू में मैं बहुत ही निकमा था. ठीक है. मैं Brutally honest. ठीक है, like मैं जब result आना होता था ना तो मैं सोच रहा था कि मैं अब किधर 3.55 CGPA रहा. अच्छा. हां, तो इसलिए मैं यह कहता हूं कि इसलिए कभी भी आहत के लिए भी मैंने यही सोचा हुआ है कि मैं कभी भी उसपे कोई चीज़ like मेरे parents ने इतना force नहीं किया मैं उन्हें
नहीं so, चलेगा वह तो आपके जवाब already दे दिया कि how would you go about with your kid? Another question that I would like to ask because your kid is a COVID baby essentially in a way that you know he was born a month before COVID and I am assuming कि उसके first few months में तो he probably never met anyone. उससे बड़ा scare था, बहुत ही extra scare था. Did his, did that affect his sociability?
We thought it would but अब क्योंकि वो you know he is running around and meeting new people अब थोड़ा सा ज़रा क्योंकि वैसे भी नहीं, journaly भी नहीं आपको करना चाहिए कि newborn baby और आप सोचें कि वो अभी अभी COVID, it's everywhere lockdown With
COVID now, अब तो लोगों को ये समझ आ जानी चाहिए कि यार this is the the ultimate way of transmission of disease. Form Exactly. Of
But लोगों को नहीं दिमाग में. अभी तक नहीं आता. एक और चीज़ अगर, you know, if I were to understand, have you, did you guys make your honeymoon trip? No, didn't get it. You haven't gone to,
इसके पीछे भी यह था कि. इंसान was so busy with his restaurant के. मैं restaurant के मैं after मैं second day I was in restaurant याव. अच्छा. उस नया खुलाता हो सकता है? उस वक्त वक्त नया नया था. मतलब उसको सिर्फ आम आदमी होता मार्यवली में के shoot में restaurant से call आ starting के अंदर हमने even हम हम distribute दिया है हमारी हमने क्योंकि first हमारा experience था हमने एक accountant भी नहीं रखा हुआ था. ठीक है जिसमें हम cash पर भी हम ही बैठे हुए हैं. हां. ठीक है ना? पहले पहले हफ्ते के अंदर यह होता है GK हमारा तुम्हारे माल कौन है या इस तरह की बात है. मतलब एक से सुनी दूसरी से निकाल दी. हां. इस तरह कहता तो हमने इस तरह से वह ना मैं अपने शादीवे के second या third day I was in the restaurant. अच्छा. And
you guys, were you able to make a trip after that? No. We did. वह ऊपर an उम्रा और ऐसे तो वही trip किया था but वह family के साथ था. अच्छा,
अभी अकेले नहीं किया. नहीं. Are you guys planning on something? क्योंकि I am really curious कि what's हाथ क्या हाथ? In
You know. इस्लामाद आना भी ना हमारे लिए बहुत हमने सोचा हुआ था कि यार हैं ना अभी इसके आप कह रहे हैं. मतलब कि जब एक दफा वह चलने लग जाता है या सौरभ उस तरह उसे टांग पैर लग जाते हैं जो भी हो जाता है उसके बाद वह नहीं टिकेगा. बच्चा नहीं टिकता. तो उसके बाद से मगर
राज रहने के लिए. ताकि हम वह trip ले सकें. Right. वह Pakistan से बाहर का ही plan है आप लोगों का. जी. हां, यह बोल रही है कि Dubai चले जाती है वह easy है हां, और
Dubai वालों ने खोल लिया? जी, August 7 को खुल गया था. पाक्सानीयों के? जी. चलिए, good.
चलिए, that sounds, sounds pretty exciting. We are almost at the I believe thirty, forty, forty, fifty, fifty five minute mark. Guys, thank you so much for coming all the way from फ़ैसलाबाद and Thank sharing all so much for having the I am, मुझे honestly ना अभी तक मेरी you guys are the first one जिनसे मैंने as parent to parent बात किया sir. That was a lot of fun. We had fun too. And you know, thank you for sharing on the insight. Thank you so much. And for all of guys thank you so much for watching. अगर आपके episode पसंद है अपनी दुर्षिया नज़र से दोषे करिएगा. YouTube वाले like के निमांगे की जिन बढ़ेगी. Left right side के ऊपर easy पैसा जाए cash आ रहा होगा. If you want to support we accept 1 rupee as well so you know you can do that as well. इसी के साथ साथ Facebook quality video community join सकते हैं. The link is down below where we take your feedback, take guest recommendations and all of that stuff. But anyways, this was सैगी मज़हब्बित संजय दी. You were watching Third Band Things. Thank you so much for watching and I'll see you in the next one.
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Simon Dixon: the US empire is being wound down by design
with Simon Dixon
Simon Dixon argues the American empire isn't collapsing — transnational capital is deliberately unwinding it, and Pakistan's military has become its leverage in the transition.
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52:45 Jun 9, 2026
How Asad Mehmood landed Mattermost from Pakistan before A levels
with Asad Mehmood
Asad Mehmood walked into Mattermost before he had A levels, crossed two million dollars on Upwork, and now runs a design agency from Pakistan. He sat with Muzamil to lay out the framework underneath it: become undeniably good, then become visible, then sell outcomes.
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59:04 Jun 5, 2026
A 22-year-old Pakistani's road map to space by 2050
with Hassan Mossin
Hassan Mossin, a 22-year-old Pakistani astrophysicist training with the International Institute for Astronautical Sciences, walks Muzamil through the next twenty-five years of space — commercial stations by 2030, a lunar base by 2032, and why the bottleneck isn't food or oxygen, it's energy.
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