Why Shehzeen Siddique started freelancing at 15 in secret

जय होती है मज़ार welcome back to another episode of Thought Banding. जी मैं समझ में आया हूं बहुत ही ख़ास मेहमान. जिनको जिनका नाम है शहज़ीन सदीगी. She is a freelancer at the age of 20. But not just that she is doing a lot of other things as well and you know before I get into that conversation मैं थोड़ा सा यह बताना चाहूंगा कि I always love talking to very very young people because एक तो यह है कि आपको यह पता लगता है कि आने वाले वक़्त में कितने smart लोग इस मुल्क में आने वाले. It sort of feels very disruptive. It feels very very exciting and also I think as a 30 year old, 31 year old, जब when I was 20, I was 21, 22 तो हमेशा यह होता था कि when I would talk to someone who is 30 or 40 or 50, it always always feel like कि इन लोगों को हमारी समझ नहीं आ रही है जो हम कर रहे हैं, जिस तरह से हम कर रहे हैं. And so I I find this platform, this space क्योंकि मुझे पता है comment section में काफ़ी, इस तरह comments कभी कभार आए हैं कि, you know, we don't want to hear these kids. We wanna hear someone who's more experienced. मेरा मन ना यह है कि, you know, you talk to talk to the younger generation because there is always a disconnect, a lost in translation And I'd like to explore the minds of these young people just to sort of understand how they think and what are the thought behind the things that they're doing. So, anyways, we have, Shahzine Sedighi with us. I believe she goes by freelancing with Shahzine. Freelancing by शहज़ीन. By शहज़ीन. शहज़ीन, thank you so much for being part the show. Thank you for having me. And शहज़ीन is here from all the way from Karachi. Yes, specially for your podcast. Thank you so very much for that. How do you like स्नावत? स्नावत is very nice. बहुत calm city है, बहुत हमें असल में traffic की और shore की आदत है. सांवाद is very calm, very nice. I always enjoy coming here. I was here two weeks back. Right. मैंने email पाई थी आपसे. Right, So I came back again to meet you, to be a part of this. ज़बरदस्त. तो सांवाद मुझे हमेशा से बहुत अच्छा लगता है. Very nice, very beautiful. चलिए, excellent. शेज़ीन, just to start it off, you're 20 years old. What are you doing right now in terms of your studies? So, currently I'm doing mass communication from Malaysia and I'm also doing criminology as a minor degree. Right. So,

and उससे पहले I did my A levels. From? From निक्सर college. अच्छा. हां. Were you part of the

Momenas batch? Yeah, was part of Momenas My intention. आप लोगों के batch में बड़े सारे लोग निकले हैं. लिना भी I think आपके batch की है. लिना भी मेरी batch

and there were so many supportive people. I think मैंने भी अपना cake start journey करी है कि वहीं से होगी अगर साफ बोलूं तो. Right. तो I think यह चीज़ बहुत थी कि जब लोग अच्छे होते हैं ना आपके अद्गेर तो automatically आपको grow करने का भी दिल कर. अच्छा अच्छा शज़ीन I am going ask you straight off the bat.

Were you always a good student or were you always one of this like high achiever sort of a person? I was not. I was the most average student I knew class.

मैं तो बहुत ही कोई even though लोग बहुत shock होते हैं अब जब बात बात करते my students. So, I think I was, we were a group of six friends, very close, studying together since a very long time and me being the sixth one बाकी पांच A star से कभी कोई grade ही नीचे नहीं पढ़ाई, पढ़ाई. Right. And यह चीज़ like and I wasn't, मैं नहीं थी भाई मतलब A star नहीं आता था, नहीं आता तो नहीं आता था. Right. There was always b, c, a भी आ जाता है कभी कभार इतनी b वह नहीं थी but I was very bad at math. अच्छा. तो मेरा सबसे बड़ा दुश्मन था math. अच्छा. And I think that certain subject मुझे उससे इतनी hat rate थी कि I would cry. I would literally And

this is o levels math? This is o levels.

So, I think एक comparison भी बहुत होता है ना जब आपके दोस्त इतने smart होते हैं पर आप बिल्कुल भी smart नहीं होते. तो एक एक वह चीज़ भी थी consciously, suppose जो बहुत चीज़ थी and specially in school I remember मुझे ऐसा लगता था like I was made to feel this way I believe कि you can't achieve anything. Specially एक होता है ना क्योंकि और मैं literally I am not kidding this is I mean grade seven कि एक and I was this very sweet student थी मैं. हर teacher की you know मतलब बहुत तारीफें करना है and all कि भाई कहीं से तो appreciation में जाएगी. तो यही था कि I would be like किसी की तारीफ होती थी. मैं दिन भी बड़े सोच रही थी मैं कहती हूं यार इस तरह नहीं होता. A degree does not make you smart. Yeah. This is what I believe. And I feel like हर बंदे का एक अपना वह होता है ना

areas of expertise होती हैं या areas of interest होता है. And so you can't judge everybody by the same set of subjects, same set of वही वाला बात है कि math की वजह से आप essentially define कर रहे होते हैं society के अंदर कि कौन smart है, कौन नहीं है. हो सकता है वह humanities

में बहुत smart हो. Exactly. हमारे यहां explore भी नहीं करने देते. हमारे यहां यह नहीं होता कि वह कि if she is good in art आगे जाने दो. It's like art really? Yeah. Even दो दुनिया में art को बहुत appreciate किया जाता है. हां. तो यह चीज़ एक बहुत मेरे लिए एक होता when I was in O levels, I will tell you what happened is I gave my mock. This is grade 12. Right. I gave my mock and मैं maths में fail हो गई. तो they called my mum and they were like कि she failed in maths तो हम private कर देंगे. Right. My mum was like. And this was again. दो level, दो level. They were like कि इसको हम maths में इसको private कर देंगे. So my mum was like ठीक है maths में कुछ she is bad, I admit it. और उन्होंने कहा नहीं हम सारे subjects में private करेंगे. अच्छा. But I was like that doesn't make sense. Yeah. Because see I have got good marks in, मेरे पास commerce मैंने लिया था. मैंने कहा I have got good marks in business, eco, account भी सही था, English भी अच्छी थी. मैंने कहा दिया था, they were like no no we cannot, आप मैंने तेरह साल school में पढ़ा था so it was very you know degree. Heart breaking, yeah. It was very heart breaking. So what I did was I stopped going to school. अच्छा. Private हो गई थी. Depression, severe depression and you know. अच्छा and they went with it. They didn't even say कि यार आप try कर लें कुछ यह कर लें कुछ. No no no they clearly they talk to me first and I cried. They were like कि तुरोती रहेगी whatever. They called my mom. They were like कि देखिए इस तरीके से है. So my mom was like आप सिर्फ maths में कर दो. You don't have to. They were like no. हम सब में करेंगे. सुनीती अम्मी भी घर पर आ गई. She was like there is no and then my mom I think since when I was in grade seven आप कह लें. So I was also a kid who was बचपन से तो लेकर I was very confident. मतलब सबसे दोस्ती करना, सबसे बात करना. But I think when I came in my teens, you know, there was a lot of bullying. I was this chubby kid, I had braces also. Right. छोटी सी height थी. You know, there was a lot of bullying as well. Smart भी नहीं थी according to my school. तो I think वह चीज़ ना मुझे I मैं बहुत वह हो गई थी like insecure.

अच्छा first bonds का मैंने देखा ही बड़ा it's a thing. So first bonds generally perform really really well up until middle school. And then tend to sort of become very sort of secluded, introverted, reserved and वह जो है ना एकदम से थोड़ा सा वह again insecure हो जाते हैं वह हो जाता क्योंकि उनको maybe because उनको बचपन में इतनी appreciation मिलती है as first born कि suddenly they realize कि यार I am not that special. Yeah exactly. Whereas अगर आप second born को generally देखें तो उनका यह होता है कि वो they know how to get that attention. They tend to be, they tend to perform well, they tend to be more animated, you know, people tend to love them very easily. And so it's very difficult like as a first born

to go. मैंने देखा कि ज़्यादातर first born जो है वह spiral में जाते हैं. उस spiral से वापस निकलना है and be this independent person and being able to be confident in your own skin. यह भी बड़ी जो बात है. Every person is not the same. Yeah, the thing is कि there is a lot of pressure. Yeah. Family की तरफ से भी कि सबसे बड़ी है, सबसे वो हमारी पहली औलाद है. तो बहुत expectations होती हैं. Yeah. Like I was saying कि school में तो like as soon as I reached when I was 13, I became this very insecure person. Confidence भी बहुत low हो गया था. पर bullying भी चलती रहती थी साथ में तो मतलब ice था ice था वह जो confidence था वह जो speech थी it became very low. I became a person who would just speak to a friend जितनी confident नहीं है वह. And I think that's, अच्छा यह age वह भी होती है ना कि आप parents को exactly बता नहीं सकते कि आप, I was a very rebellious teenager. I think everyone is. तो मतलब I wasn't able to tell my mom कि what's wrong, what I feel. I didn't know what I felt myself honestly. Right. तो उस वक्त the communication is very low. But when I reach grade 12, that's when I came home the day I got private and I told my parents I cried. I am like देखिए इस तरीके से तो नहीं होता है. I worked really hard. Yeah. So this is not. So that's when my dad he made me sit down. He is like listen, you failed. It's like a bruise. It's not a tattoo. It's not gonna define you. Right. तो कोई बात नहीं. तुम अपना पढ़ो करो. I remember we were all applying for college actually. Sorry. So I went to my teacher and I am like I want to apply to this college and this college and like everyone was. मैं कराची में कौन से इतने colleges हैं जो main main थे. So, she was like कि no, listen, don't apply to this one. Don't apply to Nixir. You apply to this one or the other one who said. They were not that war. तो मैं बहुत demotivate हुई and I was like किस तरीके से कैसे? But then I was like private हो गई हूं कह रहे हैं. मैंने जाकर मैं I applied to Nixer, मैंने interview भी दिया and then I got in also when my grades came. मेरे grades भी अच्छे आए थे. I got As and Bs. अच्छा. Private हो गए. Right. तो मेरे लिए तो बस like. Math में गया था. Math में I got a B. अच्छा. I got a B. So I was like oh my god. तुम्हें यह कहीं नहीं रहा है. मैंने कहा गलती से छायद डाल दिया. So, I went to tuitions eventually in the end. तो I think उसमें I I played my O level. मेरे लिए A's और B's ठीक थे. So eventually I got into college and क्या कहते हैं?

Change a lot of things. Nixer change a lot.

इसी तरीके से यह सिलसिला show हुआ. Have been doing freelancing since I was 15. अच्छा. And no one knew about it. And so that 15 where you were in A levels or O levels? O levels का first year था. अच्छा. And किसी कोई बात नहीं पता थी. I didn't tell my parents. I didn't tell anyone at school. How did you stumble upon it? So basically when people ask me this question, उनको लगता कि बहुत influential सा answer देगी. एक दिन में उठी मुझे ख्वाब आया, कुछ बड़ा करना है, ऐसा कुछ भी नहीं था. Right. So basically हुआ यह था कि किताबें पढ़ने का बहुत शौक था. Right. और अब्बू ने आदत डाली थी. My father was like whenever you read and if you don't understand a word, underline it और dictionary बराबर में उसकी meaning निकाल लो. तो obviously book तो मैं पढ़ नहीं रही थी. I was on Instagram तो I came across this word and the only thing that attracted me was free. अच्छा. इस freelancing में. Right. तो मैंने Google किया, मैंने कहा what is this? When I read about it, the first thing that came to my mind was like यह तो झूठ है because you know the entire idea of working at home and अपने ही घर पर and पैसे कमाना and I am trying to so dumb that I am genuinely saying this. I thought के जो लोग office में बहुत अच्छा काम करते हैं ना उनको bosses बोलते हैं आंखे आप घर बैठे आराम से काम करे आपको तभी वह. I thought के यह इस तरीके से होते यह freelancing को ऐसी पागल बना रहे हैं. तो then again I was very curious. Right. Then I sat down within one week मैंने सब जान लिया था किस तरीके से होता है, किस जरिए से हो सकता है and I wanted to, I wanted to do it but I didn't tell anyone because again वो ही confidence वाले issue था. I was 15. School में किसी को बताती नहीं. I try telling one of my friends and I was so demotivated because they were like you know इससे कुछ नहीं होगा. Forget it, focus on math. कुछ नहीं होगा.

तो And and and you you know found out all about it from these blogs वगैरह जो क्या Blogs वगैरह internet पर जो थे. कोई local पाकिस्तानी

course या कोई पाकिस्तानी बंदे ने आपको? Nothing. वो किया था या it was just mostly whatever came up No no, on whatever came up on Google. Right. तो हर चीज़ जो हमने Google से देखी थी वो ही चीज़ हम दिमाग में पढ़ा रहे थे कि अच्छा यह भी होता है, यह भी होता है, especially आपके लिए कोई guide करने के लिए आपको नहीं होता ना that's when your struggle period starts. Right. So what happened was कि I started it and इस पूरे this is like साढ़े तीन साल आप लगा लें. इसमें सीखने के चक्कर में took me three and a half years to learn. Right. Experiences. I got scammed seven times on the internet. Like what sort of scams? कि मैंने किसी को पैसे भेजे और सीखने के लिए and they scammed me and ran away. Really? Yeah, seven times. So I think और इस वक्त तक I wasn't a coach, I wasn't teaching anyone. किसी को obviously पता भी नहीं था. So one day eventually जब इस बारे में बहुत मैंने जान लिया and I came upon a client, he told me कि hotels के बारे में एक article है, लिखना है thousand words. आप लिख दो कि मैंने कहा ok, I wrote it down and मेरी पहली कमाई थी 300. अच्छा. And for me it was a very big thing. Yeah. I was like oh my god, वो अभी तक मैंने निकाले भी नहीं है, वो अभी तक है मेरे पास. अच्छा. मैंने खर्च भी नहीं किए. तो

वो 300 rupees थे. And how many articles did you write before that?

Before that every मेरी आदत थी. Every weekend, every day like Friday, Saturday, Sunday एक एक article thousand thousand words का मैं लिखती थी by hand. अच्छा. फिर वह typing का eventually आया तो फिर वह हमने लिखना शुरू किया. I think as a writer myself, I would write about you know scenarios and if I went to a place तो उसके बारे में. But freelancing when I started मुझे realize हुआ कि अपने से ज़्यादा client की specifications पर आपको focus करना पड़ता है. Right. इस तरीके से चाहिए, तरीके से लिखना है तो seven times was crazy because इतना एक तो आप इतने already अपने आप को समझते हो कि you can't do anything. Are made to believe that way. Right. And then you get demotivated कि people take your money and they run away. तो यह ईद के बाद का किस्सा मैं आपको बता रही हूं. ईद के बाद यह होता है ईद जमा थी and everyone all of my cousins is spending around clothes and four lakh बच्चे करते हैं. Right. तो मैंने क्या किया? मुझे एक साहब मिले internet पर. उन्होंने मुझे बोला मैं आपको training दूंगा. और यह training fee है and then you can start earning. 15 year old. कितने कोई training fee थी? 1,500 rupees. अच्छा. आप सोच रहे हैं आधी थी तो निकल ही गई उसको. तो आपको अच्छा I couldn't go to the market alone so whatever I went to my cook and I am like यह पैसे हैं, यह पैसे चुप चाप चाके easy पैसा कर देना किसी को बताना बदतमीन को. So he was like ok उस बुचारे में जाकर कर दिए but before that that guy sent me a sixteen minute voice note. Right. And एक seven minute का और sixteen minute में now that I realize बाद में he was explaining to me why he should get the training fee. He said I deserve it, I am training you, I deserve it तो मुझे मिलनी चाहिए. सोलह minute बस बंदे देते मुझे एक ही बात बोली कि I deserve the training fee तो भेजना मत बोलना. हां. And वह सात minute में he explained the काम और एक काम क्या था he had Netflix and Amazon के accounts और वह बेचने Which didn't make any sense at that time. There was like a pyramid scheme, right? Essentially. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I am extremely against by the way. Yeah. तो मैंने भेज दिए and I tried to do it. He had a specific target audience where he told me कि यहां पर जाकर करना but no one would believe me. Yeah. They were like आप खुद माशा उल्ले से scam हुई हैं और आप हमें भी scam कर रही हैं. और उसमें क्या होता था कि उसमें होता यह था कि he would had this copy paste वाली चीज़ पूरी वह आपको भेजनी है and जो questions वगैरह थे उन्होंने पूछने थे आपको उनको बस इसका जवाब देना है standard वह like a chatbot. Right. तो it didn't work out. I did for three days and I was like this is foolish. What am I doing? I left it. Yeah. Then I met another guy. He told me the exact same thing but it was a bit different इस तरीके से कि he had products. Right. And he was like कि मैं आपके घर तीन products, दो products बेचूंगा

and you have sell them. I have to sell them. मेरी भी training free है. तो I was like कौन सी products थी? वह वाली products नहीं है. वह आजकल बड़ी चल रही है यार. औरी flame वाली ना. That's the ultimate part marketing like climate change. Oh my god मुझे एकदम से गुस्सा रहे थे because पूरी चीज़ में दिमाग में. क्योंकि जो अगला scam कर रहा है ना आपको वह खुद scam हुआ है actually. Exactly.

वही वही पेरे में network marketing ही सीखनी Yeah yeah तो and I didn't know. तो मैंने वह भी कर लिया that also didn't work out. Like why would a person buy पंद्रह सौ की cream when they can get Victoria's Secret की पंद्रह सौ की cream आराम से. Yeah. There is some other brand, good brand. तो वह भी I left and तब तो I think बिल्कुल मैं ऐसी हो गई थी. मैंने कहा this is, this is not gonna work out. Yeah. I think my friend was right. Math पर ही focus करना चाहिए. But then eventually what happened was कि when I would sit down and this is like आप समझ लें कि थोड़े बहुत genuine clients मिल जाते थे तीन सौ, पांच सौ, छह सौ रुपए कमा लिया करते थे. Right. That's when I told my son, I am listen training fee पर नहीं जाना है. जिसको काम चाहिए, जिसको skill बेचनी है, उससे काम लेना है that's it. Right. तो eventually when I reached college का I think last year खत्म हो गया था. First day में तो आप सोचिए मैंने focus ही नहीं किया. Right. College life है, there is a lot of happening, events हैं, current focus. Second day में I told a bunch of friends के listen इस तरीके से मैं करती so they were like this is something very new और हमें इस बारे में नहीं पता. Yeah. So तुम सिखाती ही नहीं हो, you should teach. So I was like, yeah I will think about it and they force me to like page बनाओ, बनाओ, बनाओ, बनाओ. I made a page, इधर उधर से 1,700 followers मेरे हो गए. At the same time I was learning other stuff as well. मैंने social media managing भी बहुत सीखा था. अपनी feed भी खुद ही manage कर रही थी. अम्मी की भी help कर रही थी, अम्मी का design house नया शुरू हुआ था. तो what I did was कि I applied for a job. I was a social media manager at the age of 18 I got my first job. Cafe Elantho, Cafe Fuji and En House. अच्छा. तीनों की तीनों की मैं social media में भी cafe Elantho आप manage करी थी? जी, पूरा. Very cool. Hen house भी and cafe Fuji also. अच्छा. So they called me over. They were 15 people twice my age जो कि बैठे हुए थे and they called me in for an interview. तो मैंने interview दिया and then they called me in the main room जहां पर दो तीन लोगों ने मेरा interview लिया था and I gave my interview, they called me the next day and they told me, they like really like मैं पूरी presentation तैयार करके लेकर गई थी because I knew कि competition होगा. हां. And I didn't tell anyone again. Obviously अपनी parents को तो बताना पड़ा था. So they told me कि you have to work for six hours office timings हैं. ठीक है. And I think उसी वक्त मेरा university में भी हो गया था. This is COVID by the way. So this is 20 This is last year आप कह लें. Right. तो they were like six hours. मैंने कहा that's not possible. बिल्कुल. I wake up at 5AM, 4AM in the morning to take classes from time difference. All the way up to and one because breaks के साथ होती थी तो मैंने कहा दो बजे यहाँ पर आना पर छह बजे तक I will go crazy. अच्छा आना है like on. आना है yeah. Have to तो be मैंने कहा कि this is getting very difficult. तो I was able to convince him कि I am going from six hours, they were like four hours. I was able to convince him कि हफ्ते में एक दफा आऊंगी दो घंटे के लिए. अच्छा अच्छा. हां, so they were like fine. और बाकी आप घर पर कर लेंगे? बाकी मैं घर पर कर लूंगी. कह रहे like fine, that's what you wanted to do it. तो I think वह चीज़ मेरे लिए इतनी बड़ी achievement थी कि being 18 and working I was getting paid really well. तो I was like this is very exciting and यह वह मैं freelancer को भूल ही गई कि मेरा एक page भी है, मुझे चलाना भी है. अच्छा at the same time I had a talk with my parents and they were like कि देखो उस चीज़ को बिल्कुल छोड़ना मत because साढ़े तीन साल मेहनत की है इस चीज़ पर शैसी नहीं है go, I just let it go. मैंने अपना पहला batch किया This is when I started teaching. Right. And मेरे पास I think 10 to 15 लोग आए. Right. Because एक तो यह होता ना online चीज़ें, नई चीज़ें, trust का issue बहुत होता है. So these 15 people, some of my juniors, some of my you know दूर के cousins वगैरह इन लोगों ने लिया था और मैं उस चीज़ में इतनी invest हो गई and इतना मुझे अच्छा लगा उनके साथ interact करना and सिखाना और जो reviews थे they were really nice and when they went out like क्योंकि seven days का था साल was done. Right. The reviews were so overwhelming. They got their clients for and so it was very at the same time I completely neglected my social media managing thing. Right. And it was $3.03 इतने बड़े restaurants and एक मैं it was getting, but I still work, it was getting very difficult. तो they called me like, this is like two months into it. They called me and and basically I wanted to tell them कि अब university का भी मेरे पास आने वाला था कि you have to leave. Right. So I was मैं basically. Whoever do mean you have to leave? Because Malaysia के लिए निकलना था ना? Right, so open होने वाला वाला. Open होने वाला है so, कोई खास इतना आना जाना नहीं है. So I sat down and they sat down and basically they told me कि we think you should go for university now because उनको पता था मेरे लिए मुश्किल हो रही है और मैं उनको बैठने के लिए बताई थी I think I should leave now. तो I don't know So what I did was and and obviously मैंने कहा सिर्फ़ दस लोग आए हैं. So what I did was and also on the same day आप सुनें क्या हुआ? I got a call from this guy. He was in I think साहिबाल में कहीं and he is crying on the phone. He is like मेरे पैसे खो गए हैं, मेरे मैंने आपको पैसे भेज दिए हैं दो हज़ार रुपए और इस इस तरीके से आपकी easy account में आ गई है. Classic. Classic and मेरे जो पहले batch की कमाई थी वह मेरी easy पैसा account में थी सारी. I think उसका cost भी बहुत कम थी course की तो I think total आठ हज़ार रुपए थे. Right. And for me आठ हज़ार कमाए हैं भाई बहुत बड़ी बात है. तो वह OTP code आप इससे बात कर लो, उससे बात कर ले, करते करते मैं hit o call my money.

Job भी खत्म हो गई. Job

खत्म हो गई. मैंने कहा मैं तो वापस से आ गया. I a loser. तो and you know I remember I was sitting in my room and there was this thing constantly coming in my head. जितने भी लोगों ने मुझे बातें बोली थी ना you can't do this. तुम कुछ achieve नहीं कर पाओगी. You can't get a job. You can't get into college. सब चीज़ें बातों मेरे दिमाग में ना वह बार बार आई थी कि you know maybe these guys are actually right. Yeah. Maybe I can't do anything. At the same time मेरे दिमाग में एक idea आया, I called momena. अच्छा. I called her and I like listen. Momena being momena money from Yeah, I called her and I am like listen very good friend obviously. मैंने कहा एक favour है तुमसे. मैंने कहा मैं तुम्हें एक चीज़ भेज रही हूँ, इसको बस अपनी story पर लगा देना. So that was me marketing for my course for the first time. Right. And through momina, she was very sweet. उसने follow, उसने कहा हाँ बिल्कुल तुम क्यों परेशान? मैं भी लगा देती हूँ. हाँ. उसने वह एक story लगा दी. Right. आप यकीन करें, I will always be thankful to her. उसकी एक story में अगले दिन I had triple the amount that was stolen on me from me. The very next day इतने ज़्यादा I think होता है ना कि जब अल्लाह आपसे कोई चीज़ लेता है तो फिर आपको वह मिल भी जाती है अगर आपका दिल से अच्छा हो तो. And that's when I had my second batch with a total of 30 people. अच्छा. तो mainly like double from last time. Yeah. तो बहुत वह था and I think यह concept लोगों को भी my age को इतनी नहीं लगती थी यह चीज़. Also very attractive because I mean you are young and you can earn and मैंने एक चीज़ पर focus किया था course बनाते हुए खुद के वो तो खैर में I will tell you later but the thing was कि 15 people came very successful batch, clients भी मिले बहुत खुश. अगले batch में I had I think 30 people again, फिर fourth batch में they were 45, then fifth में

they were And now this is all word-of-mouth and essentially your platform that's growing and No no,

Eight batch में I had eight people. अच्छा. हां, eight batch में I eight people. No one was coming. I think क्योंकि सबके exams हो रहे थे और मुझे पता नहीं था कि नहीं but जो आ रहे थे वह किस तरह आ रहे थे because you weren't वह regularly तो you know people page के reviews बढ़ रहे हैं ice type, ice type. This is like essentially I have like 7,000 followers something and what happened was कि ये सब I had eight people in my eight batch और ये भी मेरी cousins थे उनमें से दो. तो I was like I don't know what happened. हुआ यह था कि मैंने क्योंकि मेरे तो exams obviously खत्म हो गए थे. मैंने तब course course start किया जब सब बच्चों के पूरे कराची में Pakistan में exams हो रहे थे. Right. तो वह obviously exams चले गए थे why would you sign up for something like this? Right. तो और हमारे यहां parents भी कहते नहीं भाई इस पर exams तो focus I think उस वक्त दिमाग में demand का कुछ idea नहीं था कि किस वक्त बढ़ती है, किस वक्त तो तो तो भाई it's very demotivated. But आप यकीन करें जो nine batch था I had more than 200 people और उससे ज़्यादा मैं ले नहीं सकती थी WhatsApp group की limit ही two fifty six है. Right. उससे ज़्यादा ले नहीं सकती थी. It was getting so difficult and at that time, at the same time तब मुझे हुआ कि social media managing मुझे introduce करनी चाहिए because I had experience. Right. तो वह भी फिर मैंने introduce की, फिर वह भी मैंने उसको start में लेकर start करना शुरू कर दिया. तो आइश्ता आइश्ता फिर after my ninth batch stuff changed completely. I think एक होता है ना एक certain इंसान क्या कि यह part है जहां से मैंने गुमियाम में से मैं grow कर गई. I think that was something जहां पर I grew very आगे and जितने भी दोस्त थे मेरे, अच्छा even when I started ना people really underestimated because साफ साफ कोई भी आके यह तो scam कर रही है. She is a scammer, पक्का scam कर रही है. So then I had to tell my son, am like listen, people are gonna under, they won't be the first one to underestimate you and they won't be the last. पर यह तुम्हारा काम है to prove them that they will definitely be wrong. Yeah. तो मैंने यह एक चीज़ शुरू में कि मैंने कहा I will let my work speak. Eventually यही हुआ काम इतना भर्ता गया, इतना भर्ता गया and अभी यह बात चल रही थी I think दो हफ़्ते पहले की ही बात है. क्या I was telling my mom this. The same O level exams two of my friends, they हुए थे कि हमारे यहां कुछ cousins आए थे. Right. And they were younger. तो obviously एक बंदा जो कि होते हैं तो वह पुछ रहे थे किस तरीके से आपने किया and they are also average students. तो they were telling me, are like कि हमें school में बोलते हैं कि you can't do anything. तो I gave them an example. मेरी अम्मी सामने बैठी थी. I am like, I failed in my twelfth exam जो मैंने maths का दिया था I failed I got private. मेरी दो दोस्तें थीं and they gave the same exams and they passed school से papers दिए, A stars आए, got into same college also I am not gonna name them. मैंने कहा they are also freelancers and they work under learn to earn. Right. Which is your मैंने कहा ना I am the CEO of learn to earn. मैंने कहा तो देखो it's not about कि कौन तुम्हें demotivate करते हैं, it's about you and yourself. Right. तो यह सब आपके ऊपर depend होता है. It's not about यह क्योंकि I would have never thought in grade 11 कि यह लड़कियां जिनके यह stars आ रहे हैं, they would be working under me. Right. So that's something that's very अगर अब मैं सोचती हूं तो मेरे लिए तो यह बहुत बड़ी वह बात है. So I think यह एक चीज़ होती है कि आप जब खुद इतना अपने अपने पर believe करते हो ना and अपने पर मेहनत करते so you go a very long way. So, that's that. So, mentioned learn to earn. Yeah. What what's that essentially? Like, what what's what are the sort of services that you're providing apart from, I believe teaching is also under that as well. Yeah, that is just freelancing by. Just me teaching people. Ok. I think learn to earn जब शुरू में हमने start किया था ना, एक तो I wanted, एक यहां पर problem बहुत है कि people get scanned very easily. I will tell you from the start. So when I started designing the course essentially, मेरे दिमाग में दो चीज़ें थीं. एक तो यह था कि course इस तरीके से बनाना है कि जो साढ़े तीन साल में तुमने difficulties face किए है ना, वह नया बंदा जो आएगा उसको ना करनी पड़े. Right. So it's like a proper kick start to your journey as a person who starting freelancing from Pakistan. Scams को include करके मैं सब बताती हूँ. यह अगर call आए, don't pick up. Right. Don't pick up, don't entertain because यह चीज़ें इस तरह होती कि इंसान के तो पैसे ज़्यादा होते जाएंगे, होते जाएंगे. तो everything मैंने उसमें कहा हर चीज़ include करूंगी कि अगर जो जुगाड़ भी beach में शुरू की यह समझ नहीं आ रहा तो यह use कर लिया. पैसे नहीं थे grammar ही premium था नहीं. अलग अलग side से ढूंढ ढूंढ के अपनी grammar और क्या कहते हैं सब चीज़ें check करना. तो it was a complete guide. Right. कि proper तरीके से कहीं there no loopholes or anything कि कहीं और से जाकर किसी को पूछना हो. एक चीज़ तो यह. दूसरी चीज़ I think as a perspective of a student who felt very you know demeaned in school. मुझे यह था कि I want to establish a relationship with my student कि उसको कभी यह ना लगे कि that person is dumb. Right. क्योंकि अब जब कोई बंदा कुछ नई चीज़ सीखने के लिए आता they are clueless. They don't know anything. Because again they come into that spiral that you mentioned. यह चीज़ मैंने अपने दिमाग में रखी थी. Second चीज़ मैंने दिमाग में यह रखी थी वह यह थी कि being a freelancer myself I know कि job opportunities जो है वह capture करना बहुत मुश्किल होती है. Right. And Pakistan माशिल्ला is the, is the most fast growing market of freelancing in the world. Right. तो यहाँ पे तो काफी awareness अब अलम दिल्ला फ़ैल गई है. तो मुझे एक ये था कि I need to focus on एक तो women. जहां पर यह चीज़ें authentic होंगी. जहां पर local लोग जो हमारे पाकिस्तानी लोग हैं इनको पाकिस्तानी competition के साथ deal करना पड़ेगा not with fiber जो global होता है because that's difficult and साथ साथ में currently जब अभी जो सिखा रही हूं उसमें यह है कि portfolio जो होता है उसको samples तैयार करना, उनको correct करना, उनको लोगों को बताना देखिए आपने यह गलत लिखा, यह ठीक लिखा, उनको correct करके, उनको देंगे ना ताकि उनका एक kick start हो जाए. सामने वाला उनको यह ना बोल सके आप मुझे लिखा है वह गलत लिखा है because it's going through me. Right. So वह publish करने से लेकर सब चीज़ें हैं वह सब then I handle it completely. वह बिल्कुल baseline से like I told you और बिल्कुल end में आकर मैं उनको सबसे important tool freelancing का सिखाकर बेचती हूं जो basics से start होते वह होता है SEO. Right. इसका idea मुझे बिल्कुल भी नहीं था. I think यह 15 year old को क्या idea होगा? Specially school में तुझे सब सिखाते भी नहीं है. उनको सब set भी किया. अब यह एक चीज़ मुझे नहीं पता थी कि मैं किस ज़रिए वह करूंगी. I didn't have money to open a website. Right. तो eventually then I thought of the most accessible app in the world WhatsApp. मैंने कहा WhatsApp पर जाऊँगी सबके पास होता है, किसके पास नहीं है भई. सबके पास WhatsApp था. मैंने WhatsApp के through अपने page की link डाल के connect किया and that's how the entire loop पर एक payment portal बनाया WhatsApp पर ही. वहाँ से payments receive किए and everything and that's how it all start. So, payment, how does that work, payment portal? Basically होता ही है, it's a WhatsApp group जहा पर सारी payment details mentioned होती है. So, you just look at it, you go pay, you send me a screenshot. Right. On my personal number या जो मेरा business number है and then I add you to batch 18 वाला. Right. तो यह, पर अब obviously यह चीज़ आता है कि WhatsApp में forward messaging बहुत common है. Right. So there was one on one person actually made same मेरा ही course इस्तेमाल करके पूरा अपना own base and I got so frustrated. I am like नहीं भाई this cannot happen. मैंने कहा करो शौक से करो. मेरा copy मत करो. So I talk to her also. She was very rebellious. I did not copy यह वह और मैंने proper research करके I made someone pay for a course to get into it because obviously जाने बिकेर से मैं नाम नहीं लगा सकती. पूरा जब मुझे पता चल गया ना आपकी यह तो copy paste चल रहा है. हां. उसके बाद I reached out and I like listen what you doing is wrong and this is. Actually turned out to be a student of mine also. तो साथ साथ उधर से ले रही थी course और उधर आगे चल थी. हां, उधर आगे हो रहा था तो फिर I think she shut it down now or whatever I don't know. But then I was again I was very upset so my mom told me she is like देखो रिस्ते अल्लाह के हाथ में. तुम्हारी जो होगी मेहनत वह तुम्हें मिलेगी. You can't stop anyone even तो अब now that I think अब मैंने proper एक platform अब design भी किया जो launch करने वाली हो it's gonna be a very good platform. तो मैं बताती भी रहती हूं लोगों को it's gonna be very safe. Right. सबसे पहला यह होता है I want to make an environment that's very safe for 20 year olds and every मतलब अक्सर लोग आकर पूछते हैं कि age requirement क्या है? आप यकीन करें my youngest student generation का वह बच्चा पढ़ा हुआ है 13 year old. अच्छा. And जो सबसे oldest जो रह चुकी है, she was 69.

अच्छा.

जी, तो and she was a grandmother. She was living in Canada. Right. And she took my course and उनको लिखने का बहुत शौक था. She had a library and everything और group discussion से मज़ा भी आता है. ज़ाहिर जितने भी लोग अक्सर जो आते हैं, twice my age. Right. मुझे mam mam बोल रहे थे मुझे बहुत अजीब सा लगता But eventually अलहम्द्र अल्लाह works been going really well. I have been अब तो बिल्कुल ही काम में इतनी ज़्यादा मसरूफित हो जाती है कि पांच बजे उठती हूँ, classes लेती हूँ and then एक बजे से लेकर शाम तक काम ही काम हो गया. Is someone who is helping you with all of this as well? So basically after batch 10 मेरी request जो DM से वह 99 plus जब हो गए और फिर मुझसे handle नहीं हुआ. I hired a manager, my own student. Right. Very nice girl. So she was, she is working with me currently and अब वह भी इतना ज़्यादा पढ़ किया है कि मैंने अपने भाई को भी ले लिया. मैंने कहा please help me और वह बेचारा भी he is an A level student. Right. Very smart kid and तो वह भी माशाल्लाह से ही मुझे help करता रहता है. So we are like a team of three people currently but मैं कोशिश करती हूं specially people who pay because they have paid you right? एक questions होते हैं answer them. किसी को कुछ समझ नहीं आ रहा because कुछ लोग होते they don't know anything. It's new for them. तो आप Zoom call आ जाओ. मैं Zoom पर explain कर दूंगी आपको सामने सामने वह करना है. तो बहुत ही flexibility है. Student और teacher का relationship बहुत frank है. I think that is the most important कि जो चीज़ मैं कहती हूं मुझे school में नहीं मिली ना जिससे I think I मेरी learning का वह काफी वह था. एक बहुत ही frank और एक बहुत ही अच्छी relationship वह lacks थी. वह मैं कोशिश कर रही हूं like वह मेरी कोशिश है जो शुरू से रही है कि वह current studentओं मुझ में हो. Right. So that's something I'm I think one of the things that you've mentioned multiple times has been, you know, scams

तो हैं ही हैं but उसके अलावा भी you know bullying, hate particularly online. You mentioned कि when you started people were like, you know, scam है, यह drama है, यह है, वह है. Can you run me through a little bit about कि जब आपने यह start किया and throughout your journey,

have you have you been a victim of online hate or online sort of? Yeah, yeah, yeah. अच्छा, it's someone for me जिसको अच्छा हुआ basically यह था कि Hello Pakistan ने मेरी एक post लगाई थी. अच्छा. They came in to interview, they came into Future Cafe Elantho. I was a social media manager. They came into Future Cafe Elantho but they refused कि तो they जो जो उनका manager आया था they kind of came in contact with me because वह online I was handling the social media so I told them about myself. This is what I do. She took my number and eventually after I lost my job and everything she put up a poster of freelancing वह. उस पर आप यकीन करें I was shocked the पहली बार because अच्छा that's also when my page absolutely blew up. Right. So from around 10 k it reach up to twelve, thirteen, niceta, niceta करके 20 तक तो चला ही गया था तो मेरे लिए तो it was very big. लोगों ने वहां पर लिखा हुआ है इस बार उन्होंने start ही किए थे 19 year old. वहां पर लोग ऐसा argument कर रहे हैं. इस बात पर नहीं मेरी achievement पर नहीं कि she is not 19. Age के ऊपर ज़्यादा बोल रहा है. I'm like what is wrong with पाकिस्तानी people भाई? मैंने कहा उसको देखो मैंने achieve कितना किया है. इसको मैं देखा देती हूं. Apparently there was a lot of online hit because एक तो चीज़ भी नहीं थी. Page भी कोई इतना खास manage नहीं था at that time because audience नहीं थी. तो लोग कह रहे थे page भी इतना कुछ खास नहीं है, यह तो scam चल रहा है, यह वह online है it was so bad. I remember, that's when the payment portal thing also came into वह. तो उस पर मैंने admin settings off नहीं की थी. Right. तो रात को मैंने लगा के and I woke up in the morning तो पूरे उस payment bottle में लोगों ने लगा है scam है, scam people are leaving and this you know chaos. My mom also joined. So she came in उठाया मुझे कह देखिए what's happening at least उठ के check तो करो कि हो क्या रहा है? हां. तो I never thought कि मुझे इस तरीके से वह करेंगे. It was very new for me and obviously show में बुरा भी बहुत लगता है कि यार इतना कुछ you know मेहनत की and then people just come in और एक यह बात बिल्कुल की यह तो scammer है सारा पानी उस पर फेर देते हैं. हाँ. तो eventually I think I was, शुरू में तो हुआ था online, एक तो बहुत ज़्यादा मिला था कि अच्छा also एक funny incident on the same post obviously और magazines ने people लेकर share wear की होगी. People like आप cheek fillers लगाती है and there is a whole argument going on on social media कि this girl she is a freelance and she earns online and she has cheek fillers and I am getting DM से कहां से आपने करवाया भी also. Am like this is not cheek fillers man. What is wrong with you guys? Yeah. तो किसी totally कोई तालुक नहीं है. किसी चीज़ तालुक का होता नहीं कोई तालुक नहीं. अभी भी recently I think सलाम Pakistan shared this post about me. उसमें किसी ने नीचे comment किया हुआ था यह 20 की तो नहीं है. मैंने कहा अच्छा अभी तक चल रहा है यह. मैंने कहा very nice. अब तो it's like एक कान से सुना दूसरे कान से निकाल दिया. मैं तो लोगों को यह बोलती हूं अपने खुद के page पर भी कि देखिए अगर आपको लगता है कि this person, this girl is gonna scam me, you wait. Batch 18 अभी चल रहा है. अभी currently my slots are open. People are joining in माशाल्लाह. तो मैं कहती हूं आप wait करें इनके reviews आने दें जब तक आप 100% satisfy नहीं होंगे कि मैं काम सही कर रही हूं. If you don't believe me in me, I can't believe in you. Right. तो यह चीज़ मैंने शुरू में रखी थी और अभी भी मेरी यही है because obviously online, I don't even blame them, you know. Pakistan में इतना online scam होता है, इतना online fraud होता है, I don't blame them. तो for for me it's like कि you believe in me, आप reviews देखो, जब 100% satisfy हो then you come to me कि I want to learn from you. Right. Since at at what point would would you say were you able to earn regularly? Like हर महीना आपको पैसे आ रही थे? I think when I started my, एक तो एक client base वन गया था coach बनने से पहले. ठीक है. तो उससे भी आते थे but not like proper. You know, you could say like. जिसमें आपको for example घरवालों से पैसे ना लेने पड़ने हैं. Yeah, you know वो तो मुझे I think तीन छोड़ रुपए भी आता है मैंने कहा तो घर से ही नहीं लूंगी. Right. But eventually I think it started off after my fourth batch. अच्छा. Fourth batch के बाद regularly income. कितना पंद्रह सालों की उम्र का बच्चा या you know I think seventeen third batch तक. कितना इंसान वह कर लेगा? कितना खर्च कर लेगा? Right. आपके पास ना कोई bills देने हैं, खाने की responsibility कुछ भी नहीं है. यह है बस कपड़े हैं, you know. The things girls like generally. मेरा यह other books थी I would go and buy so I was very happy I have many for my books. तो उसके I think that was I think fourth fifth batch सिर्फ regularly आना शुक्र उसके beach में भी क्योंकि आपको पता नहीं होता ना कि इस batch में कितने लोग आऐंगे? Client से तो मिल रहे हैं. वह उसको तो मैं side पर रखकर बात कर रही हूं आपसे और eventually जब यह extreme online वह पैसे आना शुरू हो गए तो अभी तक भाई इनको save करके रखो. So I had this huge TED talk with my dad and he had to tell me listen very you know और ऊपर से easy पैसा में कोई पैसे नहीं रखने हैं. Scam हो जाते हैं. तुम्हारे पैसे याद हैं तुमने last time चले गए थे सारे. मैंने कहा तो यार तो I think ऐसा ऐसा आपको payment methods कभी खुद मैंने explore किया. I did not know PayPal Pakistan में वह था Fiverr पर एक account बनाया था एक friend के साथ actually. उसमें $10 कम आए थे. तो वह था फ़ौरन निकाल लो. Easy process scam हुए फ़ौरन निकाल लो कोई फ़ौरन. PayPal मेरे पास नहीं था. There was a guy who I met online Top $10. I think he blocked us and उसने account का नाम वगैरह सब change कर दिया. Five A पर हमारी अच्छी reviews भी थी वह भी सारे चले गए and बात पर मैंने कहा यार क्या होगा दस dollar ही मिले होंगे बेचारे को. तो he was trying to scam us. Got scammed himself. Got $10. So I think Fiverr का भी exposure मुझे idea हो गया था कि global competition कितना है? Because obviously we are freelancing. Oh, she should know about all of this. यह global competition कितना है? Client base कितना है and when I was in मैं जब मेरा fourth batch चल रहा था I had two clients from Australia and I had one client from Spain. Right. जिनके साथ मैं jackets का उनका business था और दूसरे का leather का था. Right. तो उनका पूरा content मैं manage कर रही थी eventually and उसके बाद eventually जब batches start हुए और client को एक ज़्यादा नहीं लगा आपके contacts ही वन जाते हैं. तुम नाम बंदे तो contacts ही वन जाते हैं. तो वह आकर काम देते थे. जो जैसे आपको नहीं मिली वह सामने वालों को आपको देनी चाहिए. Right. वह चीज़ मैंने फिर इस तरीके से मैंने लेकर चला पूरा. And what would you, what do you do as, so what I am trying to understand is,

what's the, what's the meaning of money for you now as a 20 year old, who's able to earn regularly online? पैसे

से ज़्यादा जो मुझे चीज़ अब matter करती हैं ना, it's respect. Right. So I think when people ask me usually कि what made you, you know why are you still sticking to this ये वो. तो मैं बोलती हूँ कि यार मुझे यह career अच्छा इस वजह से लगता है because यहाँ से मैंने पैसा, इज़्ज़त और शौरत. ये तीन चीज़ें आसानी से कमा ली है जहा तक मेरा ख्याल है and I am growing. आइज़ता आइज़ता. So for me when I look at a batch यह वह अक्सर लोग देखते होंगे भाई इतना पैसा आ रहा है, इतना वह है. मेरे लिए इतनी responsibility आ रही है, इतने लोग आ रहे हैं, इतने लोगों को कहीं भी अगर एक भी बंदा होना जो कि end में कि मुझे तो यह चीज़ समझनी है या बेकिन करे मुझे tension शुरू हो जाती है. Where did I lag? Where was I wrong? I tried my best. So I have to contact that person personally. यह चीज़ भी होती है कि seven days is a very short span of time. Right. आगे आपकी actual journey शुरू हो रही है, अब coach आपके पास हो या ना हो तो I don't abandon my students. मेरे batch में उनके students अभी भी मेरे साथ contact हुए martial arts is doing very well. तो मैं अपना email अब, अब देना पड़ता है email दे देती हूं. मैं कहती हूं listen if you have any issue, you email me. I will get back to you in three days, two days but I will get back to you. It's not like कि मैंने छोड़ दिया है कि भाई अब तो मेरा कोई लीना देना नहीं है. Right. As long as its money की जहां की value की आप बात कर रहे हो, money is important obviously but I don't work for money anymore. It's more like you know helping people and respect. आप यकीन करें अभी भी मेरे batch में openly बात बोलती नहीं. I have people who haven't paid me anything. There are verified cases. There are people who genuinely want to and genuinely need help. COVID की वजह से you know employment opportunities just went down like this. Right. So you know उनको भी help करना and everything. So right now I think money is not a priority anymore. It's more like respect and it's more about helping people. Right. That's that.

And, you know, we're at the forty eight minute mark. You did mention at one point that you prefer girls over boys. You know? And I do understand that because, essentially, in Pakistan, 50% of your workforce is out of I mean, 50% of your population is out of the workforce. Yeah. I mean, that's a very sort of dirty number. Obviously, there are women who are working here and there, but, standardized menage are sort of, know, paint the same thing with the same brush, vali baat. How important?

Why why is that so important for you? So, you know, as someone who is very young and someone who wanted to, बचपन से मुझे यह था कि भाई ज़िंदगी में कुछ करना है. यह नहीं पता था क्या करना है. वह तो I think अभी भी नहीं पता था कि क्या करना है. But as a child I was like यार ज़िंदगी में मुझे तो कुछ आगे बढ़ के करना है. My dad had a lot of, he still has a lot of expectations. My mum बहुत expectations लगाकर रखी थी first born obviously. तो मैंने कहा था मुझे तो I don't know what I am gonna do but I am gonna do something. कुछ ना कुछ तो करके निकलना है कि लोग याद रखें कि मैं कौन थी. But at the same time मुझे यह चीज़ feel हुई कि हमारे पास as a girl in this society मेरे पास opportunities बहुत कम है. Right. I can't go out. I can't earn. Beach में यह भी शौक शरा था कि K2 चढ़ना है. कौन K2 लेकर जाएगा यार? कोई तैयार नहीं था. हां. तो as a girl just whose face all of these issues मुझे था कि सामने बहुत सी लड़कियां हैं जिनको यही मज़ा भई हम नहीं बुहार नहीं जाने दे रहे. पर हमारे अंदर वह ambition है. हमें कुछ करना है. हमें समझ नहीं आ रहा हम क्या करें. We want to earn, we want to help. अगर हमारा भाई घर से बाहर निकालकर, निकालकर थोड़ी काम कर रहा है तो हमें भी घर में कुछ contribute करना है. हमें फ़ारिक नहीं बैठना. And you know most of my students जिन्होंने freelancing में careers बनाए हैं कुछ उसमें से percentage ऐसे भी हैं जिनको यह exposure online मिला है. मैं कहूंगा उन्होंने freelancing में नहीं उन्होंने अपने अपने businesses खोलनी है. अच्छा. Because वह online चीज़ से इतना because तो I think letting girl being girls exposed to the world के देखो इस तरीके से दुनिया चल रही है और आप ये ये चीज़ें भी करके कमा सकते हो. You can stay at home in your safe spot in your room in front of your parents and you can earn तो आप क्यों ना करो. Why not avail that opportunity? Why not give them a chance to feel कि they are also helping the household and they can also be independent while being at home. तो mainly यह चीज़ बहुत मोती के लड़के तो कल हमारे यहां भी तो यही बोला जाता है कि guys are going to make their way out. They're the bread makers. They're gonna do whatever. But for women, it's very important for them to, you know, earn and stand on their own field. आजकल की लड़कियों के लिए तो बहुत ज़्यादा important है for them to be independent, to be strong and confident. And I think being able to work from home

is Pakistani context because culture plays a very, very important part in in people doing what they're doing. Right? And and a lot we we can say all we want, k, women should go out, and they should work, and this and that. But the fact is the vast majority will not be able to do that because of the fact that their families won't Yeah. Be comfortable with it or whatever. But वही वाली बात है कि if we can sort of bridge that gap and provide a culturally contextual solution. कि भाई, ठीक है, अगर आप घर से ही बैठकर आप चार काम कर लें. I know a lot of women who are sitting at home, they are running boutiques, they are running, you know, your own mom is running a boutique as well. Yeah. They are doing so much with freelancing, social media management,

जो आपकी यह वाली है website design, WordPress, so on and so forth. She is so smart, you know. Pakistan में I feel इतना unexplored talent है. इतने लोग इतने talented है they just don't get, you know, that kick and that kick start पहली There issues होती है was a woman and she was a housewife and she came up to me, is like मुझे course है ना, I have a daughter, am like sure she was in कतर not from here and she is like my writing is like you know यह and she send me a sample of her writing. I cannot tell you मैंने उससे भीतरी ना article अपनी ज़िंदगी में नहीं पढ़ा. It was so punctuation से लेकिन मैंने कहा who told you कि you cannot write because this is phenomenal. So, माशिल्ला she is also earning very well. Her husband is very proud of her. She was like, मेरी husband really demotivating me कि मत करो, पता नहीं क्या है. पर उसके साथ भी contact है और यह वह and usually people जो students है generally लोग जो मुझसे पूछते हैं they like कि how did you become successful या what's the key to success. मैं यह बोलती हूं if you start following the advice you give to others on your own self. मैंने कहा that's how you are going to get successful and another thing is कि हमारे यहां यह होता है कि you know you will be successful and you will eventually be happy when you will be successful. मैं कहती हूं happiness brings you success. Right. Do what you love and eventually you will be success. वह passion आ जाता है, वह काम करने की अपनी drive आ जाती है कि भाई यह काम तो मुझे अच्छा लगता है. It's better than waking up 9AM in the morning and doing something you don't love. It's better कि आप एक ऐसी चीज़ करो जो आपको पसंद है इसमें आप दिल से काम करो तो eventually do become successful. Yeah, makes sense.

Last question, Shazine. As as a 20 year old and you you started on this journey when you were 15? Yeah. Right? And I'll correlate this with my generation. I'm eleven years of harsh. Makes me feel not saying that, saying that. But, हमारे मेरे जो था ना, बच्चे जाते थे, university जाते थे और चुपकर के university में रहते थे. How important do you think is it is for young people, particularly? Because you mentioned 13 year olds, right? कि वह बैठे हुए हैं, वह सुबह शाम बैठकर, you know, they're watching YouTube and they're watching, I don't know, playing PUBG all day and and they can do that, that's fine. But, how important is it to be able to do something valuable with your life? And in your experience, like you mentioned, you're tend to say कि नहीं यार, अभी तो हम हमारे दोस्तों skill ही नहीं है, हमारे दोस्तों यही नहीं है, हमारे दोस्तों वही नहीं है. And I I believe, like you mentioned, Internet is now providing, like, phenomenal opportunities one way or the other. Freelancing is just one aspect. You can do a billion other things. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, you know, what do you think about very very young people? Like, maybe 16 to 20 year olds? I

think हमारे यहां जो है ना बच्चों को यूं करके रखा जाता है. Protected environment कि नहीं यह मत करो, वह मत करो. And by the time they reach 25 and they actually go out in the actual world they are like oh, अच्छा दुनिया में यह भी होता है. इस तरीके से भी दुनिया पर especially people who will leave for abroad ना. एक होता है इंसान में that I believe that I have learned is बचपन से लेकर you need to know this thing it's called work ethic. Right. यह चीज़ बहुत important होती है दुनिया में आगे चलने के लिए because eventually you are gonna grow up, you are gonna find a job and another thing that I think we lack is being productive. So if you sitting all day watching YouTube and playing PUBG which like you said is obviously ok PUBG तो मैं भी खेलती हूं. But at the same time अगर if you focus on yourself and like मैं लोगों को यह बोलती हूं लोग कहते हैं हम क्यों करने freelancing भाई? जब हम आगे जाकर नौकरी ढूंढनी है या यह वह. मैं कहती हूं भाई पैसे इंसान अपने लिए खाना खरीदता है, अपने लिए कपड़े खरीदता है. Why can't you invest in yourself? अपनी एक skill सीख लो. क्या होना है? आगे जाकर नहीं करना तो फिर कभी तो ज़िंदगी में काम आ जाएगी ना भाई मुझे यह भी करना आता है. यहां पर people think के you know अच्छे कपड़े पहनना, अच्छा खाना, घूमना पहनना is all they can do for themselves. But I think self love is when you invest in yourself is when you learn something, when you put that through. तो यह young generation है ऐसे 13 से लेकर you talk about sixteen, seventeen. अगर अभी से we start knowing कि how hard it is and how valuable the word money. कितना मुश्किल होता है पैसे कमाना, कितने जल्दी ख़र्च होते हैं और कितने मुश्किल से कमाए जाते ना इतनी आंखें में बहुत सारी चीज़ें change हो जाएंगी, बहुत thinking change हो जाएगी. जितने because you know when I started earning that's when I realized you know my dad works very hard. Yeah. बहुत मेहनत करके क्या कहते हैं बच्चों को पाला जाता है उनको because हमें तो एक चीज़ बचपन से लेकर भाई प्रेट में मिली है यह चीज़ और यह लो. उसकी जो struggle होती है जब तक आपको वह नहीं पता चलती ना, वह I think I think बचपन से आदत हो जानी चाहिए because मेरे 25 या 26 और वह एकदम साहब पर पड़ती है. You're like, आप एकदम से you're like take a step back. Yeah. My god, यह क्या हो गया? हमें तो आदत थी कि भई मांगा मिल गया. हां. ठीक है? तो I think these young generation they need to be very you know they should be productive and more importantly they should do what they love. सही है? आजकल के बच्चे जो PUBG वगैरह भी खेल रहे हैं वह तो online gaming से भी पैसे कमा रहे हैं. हां. If you want to play. I heard that. Very easy. You are playing your game and you are earning तो साथ में बड़ा ही किया है. इस तरीके से कर लो पर again exposure नहीं है. समझ नहीं आ रहा है किस तरीके से करें. हम लोगों को बाहर जाके क्या कहते हैं पूरा दिन you know I find this very weird you can say कि सुबह से देखे शाम तक you are watching TV or YouTube or यह. मैं तो कहती हूं कि if you have the resources and you have the will then why not do something productive about it? Why not learn the work ethic and eventually when you grow आपके अंदर इतनी instilled होती है कि no matter where you go in the world आप US चले जाओ, आप कहीं और बाहर चले जाओ, you fit in very normally. आपके लिए वह चीज़ और नहीं होती. And I think exposure बच्चों के लिए बहुत important होता है यह कोई thing. Right, 100%.

Again last sorry मैंने last वाले को last question बोला था but मुझे. कोई बात नहीं. एक last question मेरा. हमेशा आता ही आता है. You're 20 years old right now. Thirty years from now you should be 50. Thirty years from now. As a as a 50 year old then, you know, as a 20 year old now, knowing what you know about Pakistan, your experience, people around you who are doing what they're doing, आपको क्या लगता है कि दो हज़ार पचास का Pakistan कैसा होगा? How will it be different from the Pakistan of today?

I think अगर मेरे बचपन से which is 2001 से लेकर up to 2020, Pakistan has progressed. Right. ठीक है? And if you are talking thirty years from now, I hope, I hope बहुत चीज़ें यहाँ पर बदल जाए. I hope there we see young people working, young people being productive. I hope हम यहां पर लोगों को exposure मिले, एक safe environment मिले and more importantly I really really hope कि यहां पर जितनी भी लोग हैं regardless of gender by the way. यहां के घर like the household and the parents and the generation we have right now who are eventually gonna be old by that time. They allow their kids to you know do what they want. कुछ यह कुछ force like my dad is a doctor and my mum's masters in chemistry. अच्छा. So you can imagine कि एक बच्चा जो कि ना MBBS की तरफ गया ना chemistry science से कोई लेना देना ही नहीं है भाई. बिल्कुल ही different field में खेल में knowledge ही mass communication में चली गई and they were very accepting about it. Right. And I really hope की यह generation है they are accepting चाहे जितने भी बच्चे उनके जो होंगे they hope they support, I hope they support them no matter what they do and क्यों, you know जब acceptance घर वालों से मिलती है ना when you get encouraged from home that's how you build into your own place, make your own place in the society. So fifty years from now I hope Pakistan is very successful. I hope we have many many young people who come up, who are you know, इनको हम as an inspiration देखें because हमसे मैं I think मुझसे भी छोटे बच्चे हैं इस दुनिया में इनको मैं देखती हूं like wow man, this is crazy like this person is 13 या जो मेरा student है 13 and I am like you are 13 and you thought about learning that's something really well. So I think हमसे भी बच्चे जो भी छोटे हैं वह हमसे सीखे और हम भी obviously अपने elder से सीखते ही आ रहे हैं but I hope Pakistan becomes a very very successful state and I hope I can finally मतलब मैं बेवी बोलती I am very proud of my country but I hope by that time every single person should be saying कि you know we are really proud of where we live. 100%, 100%. शहज़ीन thank you so much for this very time. Thank you so much for

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